Motor Rebuild – (hot-to-trot)

[Doc Fizzix]

Fidanza Flywheel Update

The Flywheel came yesterday and today I had everything massed.

Fidanza flywheel = 7.879 lbs (much less than expected)
Stock flywheel = 12.75 lbs (much more than expected)

Percent difference in mass between flywheels = 38.2%

Stock pressure plate = 8.806 lbs
Stock clutch = 2.711 lbs

Total mass percent difference when the pressure plate and clutch are added = 20.01% (this does not include the mass of the crank so in reallity the total mass change will be a little less than 20%)

Now the real questions becomes, what is the change in moment of inertia?

[Doc Fizzix]

Here's an Autospeed article (the free bit ) about manifold insulators. It could be worth knocking a bunch of these out seeing that you're going through the exercise first?

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_0401/article.html

Very interesting article. Yes, this would make sense

Here is some more info from Robie:

http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/geo_ ... enolic.htm

[F1 LOTUS]

Those (robietherobot's) are actually Glass / Epoxy G11 Garolite, which is a pain to machine (very abrasive). The Phenolic / cotton laminate is easier to machine, lighter, cost less, and I believe, a better insulator?

[john]

for your car, the fidanza should be fine.. lighter car, fwd- it's not going to affect you as negatively as it would on my 3 AWD cars..

i've seen plenty of FWDs with light flywheels with no ill effects..

[Doc Fizzix]

Thanks John, I guess if I do not like it I can always remove the motor and swap it out for the stock flywheel. When I brought it to the shop today to get massed my mechanic loved it, he said "you will use it". We will know more when we do the road test.

[Doc Fizzix]

More Flywheel Fun

I am sure you guys are sick of the "flywheel" topic but one more update and hopefully this is the last.

Fidanza says the flywheel is ready to bolt on but when you read the instructions the "fine" print says that "the flywheel is manufactured to the highest standards by CNC machining so it should not need to be balanced BUT you should check the balance first". Well, we checked the balance today and you guessed it, the flywheel's balance was not through its center!

We had to drill out another 4 grams out of the flywheel and a little more than that out of the pressure plate

[Doc Fizzix]

I think this is the best color for the Elan

Norfolk yellow is a close second but the Elan was made to be red

Any ways, all the pistons and the connecting rods have been balanced and all have been adjusted to the same mass. More photos soon

[Doug]

what's with the buzz-saw wheels hiding thoes marvelous brakes . . . ??

[Doc Fizzix]

what's with the buzz-saw wheels hiding thoes marvelous brakes . . . ??

LOL

I really like this: (if I could only find a set)

[Doc Fizzix]

Things are moving along.

Today we are getting ready to "top" the block off. We are going to zero the block to the piston tops (minus the piston manufactures tolerances for minimum clearness). This will raise the compression a little but we feel we lost a little with the custom forged pistons.

Pistons were ordered from Atomic Speedware and made by Arias


The pistons are Arias 2618 non-silicon aluminum alloy. There is a 4032 high silicon alloy but we selected the non silicon pistons because they handle high temp and heat much better (so I have been told) On the flip side of that argument, the 2618 pistons will expand more and therefor require more clearance than with the 4032 alloy until the pistons heat up and expand, the difference in clearence is not really that much to talk about but the non-silicon pistons will expand a little more than the high silicon. (clearence 2618 = 0.004", 4032 = 0.003") I was told that the 2618 non-silicon pistons are better for a daily driver and that the 4032 high silicon are best for the track, I am not an expert and I am only stating what I was told, PLEASE if you know more on this subject write about it here so we can all learn more.



The piston rings are not at the same place and the piston is a bit shorter from the pin to the top, some of this might be the expansion of the piston but we feel we have lost some compression BUT I have been told that the top ring is purposely lower to afford protection from combustion heat and to strengthen the top land. This is standard practice on aftermarket turbo/supercharged pistons.


Stock piston on the left --- Arias forged piston on the right


Stock piston on the left --- Arias forged piston on the right


Stock piston on the left --- Arias forged piston on the right

[Doc Fizzix]

The crank is back from being nitrated, it will now be shipped off to be turned and polished. The crank should now have less friction in theory since it will have a smaller diameter. The nitrating process hardens the crank as the nitrate penetrate deep into the steal. There is only a "light" nitrate coating from the factory but it does not penetrate that deep into the steal and really prevent the crank from being used after it is turned unless it is re-nitrated.

[john]

how much did it cost to be re-nitrated?

and on your decking of the block-- what was the stock deck height?

and what compression are your pistons supposed to be?

[Doug]

what's with the buzz-saw wheels hiding thoes marvelous brakes . . . ??

LOL

I really like this: (if I could only find a set)

those are 17" OZ F1 wheels -- seen em and they look nice, but have +40 offset

[Doc Fizzix]

how much did it cost to be re-nitrated?

Only $150.00, I will get a contact name and then get back to you. My tech just shipped it off to a fellow he works with

what was the stock deck height?

I could be wrong, but I thought my tech said that it was 0.003" clearence from the piston top to the block top -- He just measured it today with the stock setup so we could figure out how much to remove.

compression are your pistons supposed to be?

I went only with a standard compression piston of 8.5:1

[Doc Fizzix]

Just for grins (we has a long discussion and wanted to see the proof) we spun-up the stock flywheel and pressure plate, they were way off! WOW I suggest to anyone that is doing a clutch job of a motor re-build, make sure you spin your flywheel and pressure plate and have them balanced.

My motor should run smooth, we balanced the pistons, connecting rods, crank, flywheel and pressure plate. Everything is as close as you can get it

[F1 LOTUS]

I would imagine the stock piston to be .030" below block top?

Regardless you want to check the piston to head clearance with the gasket in place and the head torqued down and shoot for .040"-.035" gap. With everything together it would be worth checking the trapped volume at TDC using a burette so you can calculate what the actual compression ratio is?

It looks like your new pistons have a deeper bowl but a larger squish area (parallel piston > head surfaces) which is always nice for efficiency especially when you get the clearance down to .040"-.035" so that the mixture is squirted toward the spark plug as it's about to fire
How did the stock piston compare to the Arias for weight, is there much difference between the each of the Arias piston assemblies?
When balancing rods it's important to ensure that the end weights match each other i.e rod horizontal with big end on scale and small end suspended as a pivot?

[Doc Fizzix]

I would imagine the stock piston to be .030" below block top?

The piston manufacture states that the clearance should be .040" WITH the gasket so that is what we are shooting for tomorrow. Good thing I got two gaskets so we can torque one down and measure accurately.

When balancing rods it's important to ensure that the end weights match each other i.e rod horizontal with big end on scale and small end suspended as a pivot?

The end caps were first massed and balanced separately, then the connecting rods were all balanced, followed by each of the piston/connecting rod pins, and finally the pistons. Once everything was massed and balanced, everything was assembled and re-massed just to check.

[Sy V]

Wasn't there something about the Fidanza flywheel slipping and that the AASCO variety was better, or am I dreaming this up?

[Nige]

That's my recollection too, and why we ended up with aasco flywheels from the group buy that Game-on organised.

[Doc Fizzix]

Wasn't there something about the Fidanza flywheel slipping and that the AASCO variety was better, or am I dreaming this up?

LOL

I love you guys but we already talked about this a TON of post back

You are right, there are some users that have had trouble with the flywheel BUT they have a non-organic clutch material.

The Fidanza flywheel is designed to work with the stock or any organic material clutches. There is a very SMALL number of users that are using a very aggressive clutch (non-organic compound) and have had to have their flywheel surface ruffed up. I have been talking with Fidanza on this issue and they have continually assured me that the problem is not with any organic or stock clutch material, this is only a problem with non-organic surfaces

If you want to use this flywheel with a non-organic clutch you can take the flywheel to a transmission shop and they can resurface without any problems for ya, should not cost much at all. But, if you have an organic clutch then you should not have any problems and should not have to worry about this.

I am thinking about taking it in just to have it surfaced for fun