Lotus Elan Central

by **PaulN** » Tue 13.12.2005, 14:46

Hi All,

Last night I noticed the passengers window was a little slow even strained when going back up. Ive Read some threads regarding the Regulator and im pretty sure its fine.

Is there anything i can do to keep the Window motor running, and maybe even speeding it back up?

Dont want to keep running it up and down in case its on its last legs!

Cheers

PaulN

Website · by **theelanman** » Tue 13.12.2005, 14:59

both my windows were like that and the passenger side used to get stuck at the bottom.........took them both out and replaced some of the plastic/nylon bits that looked very worn or broken......they were only a little better so I was a bit peeved to say the least coz its not exactly the easiest job in the world and after all that swearing and sweat I was rather dissapointed....anyway whilst putting them back together just prior to putting the doorcards back on I decided to grease the sliders and channels while I was in there and in doing so when I put my fingers in the channel found it to be completely crudded up with general mud/silt/road dirt.......got my rag in there....then my toothbrush and then a clean cloth....got rid of loads of crud......then a nice big handfull of grease to each side and guess what......smooth as.....well something smooth!!!...positive glide in comparison with the wobble up and down I had before and then sticking.......
just a thought!!!!!
cheers
Gareth

by **PaulN** » Tue 13.12.2005, 16:41

Sounds a plan that.

How far does the strip down need togo before i can safely remove all the gunk and regrease?

Sounds like a sunday job rather than a week night one.

Cheers

PaulN

Website · by **theelanman** » Tue 13.12.2005, 16:58

I was putting mine back together and can remeber if i did it through the access panels or before I riveted the inner door car in place......
I'm pretty sure I did it after the inner doorcard was in and I did it through the access panels........
the whole days a bit of a blur to be honest.........no a job for those with ham fists or lack of patience......god know why I even attempted to do it myself!!!......an infuriating day to say the least!!!!
cheers
G

by **Andy_R** » Mon 06.02.2006, 01:13

Definitely infuriating, but I think you need all the trim off to be able to de-crud everything. It's worth a day spent on it though, once you see what the motor is having to work against. Having said that, after doing the LH window out of necessity, I still haven't managed to get round to doing the RH window - think I'll save it for a nice summers day.

by **Doug** » Mon 06.02.2006, 04:14

my drivers window got slow once and all it needed was an adjustment in the alignment once the door was apart--it has been fine since. now my pass window is doing the same and i'm sure it just needs the same type of adjustment cause it works fine otherwise. there's some adjuster screws to mess with under the door card . . .

by **PaulN** » Mon 06.02.2006, 15:26

Doug wrote:my drivers window got slow once and all it needed was an adjustment in the alignment once the door was apart--it has been fine since. now my pass window is doing the same and i'm sure it just needs the same type of adjustment cause it works fine otherwise. there's some adjuster screws to mess with under the door card . . .

Sounds worth a go first, what the procedure for getting to a adjusting the window?

Ie an idiots guide would be great lol

Cheers

PaulN

Defo will be stripping down if that doesn't work though.

by **Houdini** » Mon 06.02.2006, 17:15

Don't want to take over this thread but my window is stuck in the up position. I spent 4 hours trying to figure out a way to get it down. Anybody have a suggestion to get the window moving so I can try and fix whatever is wrong.

by **Andy_R** » Mon 06.02.2006, 22:51

My LH window got stuck in the up position a while back. The problem was that the metal plate holding the bottom rear sliding block had corroded away leaving the window at an odd angle, unable to move.

There are several things that may have happened causing it to stick in position, I think the only thing to do is to take the door trim off and have a look. If you haven't taken the trim off before, it's not difficult, but be careful when removing the door handle escucheon and the carpet, they are both prone to damage.

by **Houdini** » Mon 06.02.2006, 23:21

I already had the door panel off but can't see anything wrong. I need mirrors or something to get a real good look at what might be the problem.

by **Darren** » Tue 07.02.2006, 11:53

Houdini wrote:Don't want to take over this thread but my window is stuck in the up position. I spent 4 hours trying to figure out a way to get it down. Anybody have a suggestion to get the window moving so I can try and fix whatever is wrong.

When dealing with window issues, don't overlook the obvious i.e if the window is stuck in the up position, then I'd be inclined to check the relays/fuse/switch etc before I'd get onto the door strip stage.

I had an identical issue and after several hours of playing with the motor out, I realised I was dealing with a relay fault.

As a general rule, if you hear something (motor, relay clicking) and the window moves (slowly/jerks etc), then it's a safe bet that you'll need to remove the door trim etc. If you don't hear anything & nothing moves, then I'd take a look at the electric system as I know for a fact that both the switches and relays do fail on a regular basis.

On separate subject, a friend of mind has 'turned' me a set of Aluminium 'bosses' to replace the fragile plastic offerings from Lotus. So after Donny, I'll get them in and tested.

Darren.

by **Houdini** » Tue 07.02.2006, 16:53

I already tested for power at the connector to the motor and it was working when I'd operate the switch. I also checked all fuses and they were fine.I wasn't aware of the relay. Where is that located? I don't here the motor trying to operate at all and there is no jerking. Motor burned out? I just don't know at this point.

by **Darren** » Tue 07.02.2006, 23:33

Houdini wrote:I wasn't aware of the relay. Where is that located?

There are two relays that operate the window lift 'circuit' one to lift window up and one to take it down. They effectively work by reversing the polarity 'feed' to the motor i.e to take the window up, the relay applies a positive feed to one of the motor pins and a ground (negative) to other. Then simply reverses this to take the window down.

So in order to check the voltage 'correctly' you could do with a volt meter that displays both positive and negative voltages.

I have to say that I haven't a clue where the relay assemble 'lives' in a left hooker but on a RHD, it's under the main dash board assembly on the drivers side, right by the door 'post' facing towards the bulk head i.e put your head in the drivers foot well and look up.

I guess your motor could be burnt out but from experiance (believe me I have a bit when it comes to Elan window assemblies) the motor only burns out when it's put under higher than normal load & even then it'll work for a period of time before finally giving up the ghost. So have you noticed slower than normal window operation i.e gradually getting worse ?

If the worst comes the worst, get someone to operate the down switch, why you give the window a helping hand but be careful as you don't want to damage the plastic 'regulator'. It's best to open the door slightly, grab both ends of the door glass and kinda help it down, whilst slightly lifting/lowering alternate ends i.e if it is jammed in the track, then you'll need to 'level' the window off in order to 'free' it up some.

Hope this helps.
Darren.

by **Houdini** » Mon 13.02.2006, 00:32

Thanks everyone! I posted this in problems as well.

Window is down!

I ran 2 wires from the battery and that did the trick. It must be the relay but I don't know which relay is for that door. I guess I'll switch them around until I find the culprit. There are 4 relays and the one closest to the door was for the window that works not sure what the other 3 are for. Maybe I'll just replace all of them.

by **Darren** » Mon 13.02.2006, 09:40

Darren wrote:When dealing with window issues, don't overlook the obvious i.e if the window is stuck in the up position, then I'd be inclined to check the relays/fuse/switch etc before I'd get onto the door strip stage.

That'll be me then :-D

As for the relays, each door has two relays, one for up and one for down. So from my experiances, they tend to 'wear' together i.e how many times do you open the window without then closing it.

So if I were you, I'd plan to change them in pairs, as it won't be long before the window is stuck down.

Darren (still the king of window mech).

by **Houdini** » Mon 13.02.2006, 16:11

Darren,

Thanks, replaced only one relay just to make sure that was the problem, and it was. Going back to buy 3 more in the next week and just replace all of them.

,Russ

by **Doug** » Sun 19.02.2006, 22:07

Been playing with my pass window today. The 3 tracks ends have bolts and if you undo them slightly they can adjust the track a bit. This has helped but the window is still slow only at the bottom. There's nothing broken but as it goes down about 2/3 way the US car has a metal beam across the lower door and it slows down here. Haven't been able to adjust it to make a difference on the bottom yet. Cleaned up some track goo but didn't go hog wild cause it didn't seem to be the problem.

Anything other than lube and adjustment if the motor and parts are all working well?
Any suggestions?

Darren?

by **Darren** » Tue 21.02.2006, 17:25

Doug,

With the motor out, the tracks greased & adjusted correctly, the door glass should literally fall from the top of the track to the bottom.

So given this, the motor actually acts as brake when the door glass is going in the downwards direction.

It's quite tight in the lower part of the door due to the side impact protection beam. Now the only way the door glass assembly is going to catch the beam is if there's a problem with the butterfly.

The wiring loom also runs directly opposite to the impact beam, it's got a big'ish connector block that if it comes loose could catch the 'bottom' edge of the glass as it comes down.

If it's not one of these two, then my money is on a 'dry' track, track adjustment or an impending 'boss / bobbin' issue i.e a loose, as opposed to a broken.

You could check the 'tracks' by simply removing the butterfly "fly lead" & 'unhooking' the glass from the motor assembly. Then carefully lower the butterfly to the bottom of the track (using the down switch) i.e if you're not careful you'll break the butterfly 'fly lead".

Then simply lift/lower the door glass by hand & feel if it's 'sticking anywhere. If it's sticking but not 'snagging', then I'd go for the lithium based grease and as much of it as you can get into the tracks.

If it's snagging, then I'd go for a track adjustment, so connect the glass back to the motor and raise the glass to the highest point. Once at the top, slacken off (not too much), the single nut on each track and let the window find it's own spacing. Being mindful that there needs to be a little pressure on the tracks i.e don't simply remove the bolts as they'll just got to the extremes.

Lower the window halfway and see how it feels, if it's 'pinching' then make 'micro' adjustment on the top of the tracks again. Now back to the top and down again to half way.

Once you're happy with this, then do the same for the bottom i.e adjust at the bottom, then halfway up. Down again and backup to halfway.

Then once you're happy with both, top and bottom adjustments, then go for a full top to bottom test and likewise bottom to top test.

I guess from my experiences, there's too much adjustment to effectively adjust a full movement, so keep it simple i.e if the middle is ok, then it shouldn't be too hard to tweak the top and bottom adjustment. Likewise if you know the middle to top is working ok, why mess with the top adjustment again.

Unfortunately, this is all trial and error but if you follow the above, you'll soon get a feel for it.

Darren.

by **Doug** » Tue 21.02.2006, 19:04

thanks Darren = very helpful advice.

How tight should the bobbins be on the glass = how much play should they have?

anyone got an extra center butteryfly thingy in case I break mine messing with it? or have easy access to a dealer and the post?

by **Darren** » Tue 21.02.2006, 23:21

Doug wrote:How tight should the bobbins be on the glass = how much play should they have?

Ideally they should be as tight as you can get them, in reality, if you give it too much 'wicked uncle' you'll strip the thread i.e steel screw vs nylon bobbin. So apply some threadlock compound and tighten as tight as you dare. It's also an idea to hold tension until the compounds got hold.

As for play, you'll still get rotationary movement of the slider block, with a tight bobbin, what you're looking for is zero 'wobble' type movement.

I always keep a spare butterfly or two, so if you're stuck, let me know and I'll get one off to you.

If you're careful you should be ok on the butterfly front, at they tend to either break when you unclip them or when you forget about it and raise the window mech i.e it snags on the impact beam and snaps off. Even then you could still get away with a rubber washer and suitable 'circlip'.

Darren

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Slow Window Motor on Passengers side.

Slow Window Motor on Passengers side.

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