Oil leak - looking for hints

[TheBard]

Okay, numpty here. I was looking under the car (as you do) and noticed what looked like a drip of oil on one of the bolts that anchors the prongeron to the main backbone. It was on the left nut, so back left of the engine.

After a wipe with a bit of kitchen towel, I appear to have a small amount of what looks like regular engine oil escaping somewhere. It isn't a huge flow, and I checked the levels and it doesn't appear to be serious yet, but...

I have no idea what to check next, and being a numpty, I thought I'd ask them-that-knows what one should poke, prod, press, or peruse to figure out what needs tightening, greasing, repairing, or replacing.

Any clues?
Thanks,
Ian

p.s. No check engine light, no blue smoke, no error code on paperclip test. Feels a bit lumpy when cold. Possible smell of oil/petrol on hard acceleration when cold.

[Dovey]

I dont know much myself but get a torch, get under the car and see if you can see where its coming from. While your under there make sure you're oil filter is tight and sealed.

[Doug]

While your under there make sure you're oil filter is tight and sealed.

[Perth_Elan]

It could be from anywhere but it is always logical to start with the easy/cheap causes first then move on.

A common oil leak is from the blanking plug which is at the L/H (gearbox end) of the cylinder head. The Cam Angle Sensor Assembly fits in the Exhaust Cam hole and directly behind that is a Black Plastic tear shape plug which plugs the Inlet cam hole, this is held in by only 1 bolt and has an O-ring seal. The seal shrinks and so it leaks a little oil, the oil runs down onto the Cylinder Head/Block mounting face and it makes it look like the head gasket is leaking when in fact it is from above. From here the oil runs around the mating faces between the gearbox bellhousing and side of the block and you find a drip from the bellhousing/block/sump location, which I believe is the general location you describe.

[TheBard]

Okay, I was in the wrong spot. The fluid appears to be dripping from just behind the AC gubbins down the front right of the car, as shown by the big arrow...

and after parking on a nice clean cement floor I can say the fluid is like oily water, more a greasy yellow than the colour on my dipstick, so possibly not straight oil as I'd previously imagined.

The good news is, from my research it does not appear to be a head gasket issue, the bad news is I still have no clue what it could be, any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ian

[Sy V]

PAS Pump and the liquid is steering fluid?

[TheBard]

Thanks for the tip, unfortunately checked the PAS levels and they are fine, and are a red-ish colour, and this is definitely a pale yellow colour...

Last thoughts now are whatever the fluid is held behind the expansion tanks, cos whatever is in the small plastic container (back right of engine compartment when viewed from nose towards the rear) behind the big plastic container is the right colour!

Ah well, it goes in for a service tomorrow, so we'll see what happens.

Thanks,
Ian

[TheBard]

Okay, the garage said the whole engine is caked in oil, and leaking all over. Their mechanic suggested pulling the whole engine out and replacing the seals, and guessed at a cost of $10,000 worth of work Also told me all the seals were no longer available.... which seems a bit of a "Dealer Garage" response as I've seen enough mention here and elsewhere.

I asked for alternatives, and right now they are going to steamclean the engine and put dye in the oil to trace the leaks. This struck me as a better start, but am I being a numpty again?

Should I order up a new head gasket now, or start looking for a second opinion. Any suggestions greatfully accepted as I know they're quoting pretty much what I'd expect to pay for the car if I hadn't been ripped off originally.

Thanks in panic stricken advance,
Ian

[Enright]

The "alternatives" sound slightly wallet-friendlier!

Don't fret until you've had the result from the steam-clean and dye. No point in a second opinion til then. It should show beyond all reasonable doubt exactly what the problem is then.

[John_W]

they are going to steamclean the engine and put dye in the oil to trace the leaks.

Ian,
Personally I would not want anybody to steam clean a modern engine with so many ECU sensors on it in strange places. Especially ones which might be hard to replace. I think it would cause more problems than it would solve.

If the engine really is oily all over, and you can't spot where it's coming from without a good clean-up, best for you to personally, carefully and manually clean it with a degreaser liquid and a paint brush.

Maybe I'm just being too careful, but steam cleaning does not sound like a good idea to me.

John

[TheBard]

Hi John, Neil,

I agree with the worries on steamclean, so I called and told them of my concerns, and they will be cleaning with degreaser and cold water just where needed, and no high pressure steam. That is the one good part.

Thanks for the encouragement, now I've just got to wait and see what happens... Patience never was my strong point

Thanks again,
Ian

[Doug]

agree with your plan just above this

there is a 'gasket kit' for the Elan in case you need to go there -- I think it is Clemo who knows about these . . .

gotta clean it to see if it is even truly leaking

could be bad but chances are better that it is something minor.

does your oil level in the engine drop fast? a few drops a day can add up to a big looking leak over months, so you've really got to clean it up and go from there.

[Guest]

Hi Doug,

The oil level is one of the things that makes me doubt the mechanics eagerness. I had my last service last August and check the oil level at the dipstick at least once a month. I've not noticed any significant move in the oil level, and haven't topped up in the 5000miles since then... so I really doubt any serious leakage.

Having checked the Engine section for tips on oil leaks and seapage, I think the dye is the way to go, and might PM Clemo for details of the seal kit. I don't intend to pay "dealer price" for seals which they initially said were no longer available.

Now we just wait. Won't stop me driving up to Summit Point, WV, to see the Porsche Club track day on Saturday, I'm considering the 180 mile round trip the serious leak test!

Thanks again,
Ian

[TheBard]

Guested myself, and now I can't edit the word "seal" to "gasket".

Curse my foolishness

Any chance a friendly admin could move this post to "Engine" as I think I'll be back with more questions when the car returns.
Thanks folks!

[Rambo]

Ian,

I had a very small leak a couple of years ago which I couldn't trace at first. The drip felt and smelt oily and didn't appear to be black used engine oil or red PAS fluid. Engine oil and PAS reservoir oil levels also appeared normal and no topping up was required. Eventually the few drops turned to a regular leak and I traced it to a leaking PAS pipe from the reservoir to the low pressure side - the other side to the AC. I kept topping up as needed until I had a chance to have a new hydraulic line replaced.

Your initial diagnosis and your mechanics findings appear to be at different ends of the spectrum. I'd be very wary of anyone who immediately suggests an engine out job at a cost of $10,000

Good luck with the leak and, in the meantime, carry some spare engine oil, PAS hydraulic fluid, gearbox oil just in case

Mark

[PaulN]

Ian,

I had a very small leak a couple of years ago which I couldn't trace at first. The drip felt and smelt oily and didn't appear to be black used engine oil or red PAS fluid. Engine oil and PAS reservoir oil levels also appeared normal and no topping up was required. Eventually the few drops turned to a regular leak and I traced it to a leaking PAS pipe from the reservoir to the low pressure side - the other side to the AC. I kept topping up as needed until I had a chance to have a new hydraulic line replaced.

Your initial diagnosis and your mechanics findings appear to be at different ends of the spectrum. I'd be very wary of anyone who immediately suggests an engine out job at a cost of $10,000

Good luck with the leak and, in the meantime, carry some spare engine oil, PAS hydraulic fluid, gearbox oil just in case

Mark

Rambo,

I would be interested to see a photo of the PAS pipe that was leaking? I thought i might have a lak from the AC area and it was Clear yellow fluid. Ive not had any problem at all for the past few months so im keeping my fingers crossed.

Cheers

PaulN

[Rambo]

Paul,

The picture of the PAS pipe that I replaced is on page 2, section HC of the Lotus service notes. It's the twisty, long one from the fluid reservoir and marked low pressure supply to pump. I don't have the expertise to post a picture but I'm sure someone on here has ?

Mark

[TheBard]

Checked the cleaned engine at the dealership, and saw two possible damp patches, one on the gasket, and one down on what looks like a flat piece of iron under the CAS where it looks like two types of metal are joined.

These two pictures were taken after the 40 mile journey home (mostly at 70mph) and I am certain that both show seeping oil. Now the head gasket is clearly documented on this site, and I know I can get parts, but what is the leak shown in the first picture (under the CAS) and how big a job do you think it'll be to fix? Vague questions I know, but I'm afraid it is the best I can do at this time of night

This one worries me as the oil is seeping quite a lot here, the shine is wet oil.

This just looks like a head gasket that needs replacing.

Thanks,
Ian

[muley]

Hmmm. Most manufacturers do not recommend steam cleaning their engines.

My son had his VW engine done - a wee while later - new sump - 'cos it rusted out (they are covered with rustproofer like waxoyl at the factory)

I had a leak on 2 of my Elans and although it looked horrific and was not immediately apparent in both cases it was just the cas oil seal - they're so cheap and it's so easy I'd do it first.


Good luck

[Doug]

yes, from the top picture it may be worth pulling off the CAS to check its seal. This would be real simple--just take its cover off first, but I think you would have to take the whole device off to check its seal. You could roughly mark its rotation so you could put it on in the same alignment after. But I guarantee you will still have to set the timing properly after to do it right as the mark-it-and-reinstall-in-the-same-spot method will leave you a few degrees of timing off either way. You could still drive the car afterwards, but my point is you should reset the timing.

The bottom picture looks like something tiny? Is that fresh oil even?
And correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like that area is from the gasket of the Cam Cover and NOT from the true "head gasket" which is lower where the head meets the block!!