Lotus Elan Central

by **Matt RI** » Tue 14.03.2006, 22:57

A mechanic/fellow Lotus enthusiast recommended I look into Phantom Grip as a potential alternative to a Quaife:

http://www.phantomgrip.com/product_lists.php?make=Isuzu

I have submitted some questions to them regarding fitment and whether a difference in curb weight might make modifying this part necessary to fit in the Elan, but thought I should bone up on a couple of things they will undoubtedly ask-

The most obvious thing being that the part that PG has listed is for the Isuzu Impulse, Stylus, Imark RS- are there any differences between the transmission we have and the transmission for the Isuzu engines they list?

Does anyone know?

If this is a possibility I may well choose to be the guinea pig on this one. Also asked about any discounts for group orders should it work out...

by **TommyK** » Fri 05.05.2006, 10:43

Matt,
Have you heard anything back about this yet??

by **Matt RI** » Fri 05.05.2006, 15:48

Not yet.

The main problem is getting a hold of Phantom Grip to get them to answer the technical questions I have- their website only has an email contact form to submit questions to them (no phone number). I did that almost two months ago with no response! So, I did a little digging and came up with their phone number. When you call it the only thing that comes up is an answering machine message asking you to fill out the online contact sheet and they will get back to you right away. I left a message anyway, as it had been over a month at that point- to me that is not right away...

The lack of communication does not bode well. I even had the technical department at JEGS trying to get a hold of them (sidebar: JEGS has PG LSD's listed for less money than on the PG website- you save $50 on our model) with no success. I prefer to deal with companies that one is able to get a hold of if you have any questions/problems.

The idea is not completely dead as far as I am concerned, as the potential for this product solving many of our problems/requirements for an LSD is great, but I would certainly want for there to be a good reason why it took so long for them to get back to me and assurances that the length of time is not usual for their business.

Hope that helps- if you have any ideas or other questions about this unit- please let me know, I will try and get an answer!

by **Ashaman** » Fri 05.05.2006, 17:55

I have no personal experience with these, but based upon their design, as well as many user accounts, they seem like a waste of time and money.

I don't know of anyone on this group that has tried them, but the other groups I belong to have reported many negative experiences, and I don't recall seeing any positives.

Really, the way they are designed (basically clamping the stock diff with springs), how could they work well? Granted, everyone I can think of who hated them was a bit serious; so maybe for a casual driver they would be an improvement.

Of course, if you are a casual driver I don't know why you would need one...

by **TommyK** » Sat 06.05.2006, 00:49

Ashaman wrote:Of course, if you are a casual driver I don't know why you would need one...

Maybe we should just stick with the tried and true Quaife instead of trying to blaze a new bloody path into battle... err higher performance. But where's the fun in that?

by **Matt RI** » Sat 06.05.2006, 03:36

Good points all around...

The problem with the Quaife IIRC is that you need to order 10, and have them delivered to a UK address. Unfortunately, I am in the colonies and I remember that the Dodgy One had a difficult time organizing a Quaife order the last time around.

Seeing as finding one not in a car is near impossible and sell with a premium attached, I was looking for any other options when a mechanic friend and fellow Lotus enthusiast suggested PG as something that he had heard about and might be worth looking into.

Ashaman- your input is helpful, I don't know of anyone who has first hand experience with one and was only going by write ups in magazines and the data/testimonials on the Phantom Grip site.

One can see that they do not have the mechanical advantage of a geared LSD, so perhaps that is why they did not provide enough for some of the really serious drivers. This could be one of the, "you get what you pay for" kind of situations...

by **TommyK** » Sat 06.05.2006, 03:58

I didn't realize that there was a minimum order... there are plenty of Quaife distributors here in the US but I guess the M100 is a bit of a specialty application.

Edit: It's not even listed on the QuaifeUSA site applications list. What a load of horse poopy! Why does everything have to be sooooo difficult?!

by **Dico** » Sat 06.05.2006, 17:39

Yep, Quaife M100's ATB's are only available in the UK.

Me and Monty have both fitted oue elans with Quaife ATB's in the last month.
To be honest we have'nt found that they transform the car as some people sugggested. Maybe we're just not giving it enough stick

, quite probable.

by **Sy V** » Sun 07.05.2006, 06:10

You need to stop driving like a couple of northern nonces and give it some real Mancunian mambo mate!

:wink:

by **Doug** » Sun 07.05.2006, 06:32

by **TommyK** » Sun 07.05.2006, 06:55

Sy V wrote:You need to stop driving like a couple of northern nonces and give it some real Mancunian mambo mate!

I'm not completely up on my Brit humor but I'm pretty sure that Sy just called you a pussy that couldn't outrun one legged man hopping uphill... but then again I could be completely wrong, it has happened before. :-D

by **Monty** » Sun 07.05.2006, 09:45

Sy V wrote:give it some real Mancunian mambo mate!

Last time i did that i said hellooo to a barrier lol :roll:

I`m just not 100% happy with the handling of pinky at the mo, or maybe i`ve just bottled it since the crash :cry:

saying that it doesn`t help having knackered bearings :roll:

anyways as soon as i get her up to scratch i`ll get a couple of trackdays in to give me and the quaife a good run

by **Houdini** » Wed 14.06.2006, 22:23

I went down this road 2 years ago. Phantom Grip does work, I know of 2 people using it in there track cars. It's not a slam dunk easy job to do like they make you believe. Much better off with Quaife if you can find one. That was my problem until I located one after a very long search. Quaife USA can't supply them because of the famed law suit and you can't order one from Quaife UK and have it sent here to the states (That is if they even had one). If you must have an LSD wait for a Quaife to come up for sale. They are out there just not easy to find. Are they worth it? Best upgrade I've done so far for my needs.

by **ailwyn** » Wed 14.06.2006, 22:32

How many people here would be interested in a Quaife? I for one would be after one, there must be others in the UK?? Once delivered they could be sent onwards overseas?

Ailwyn

by **Matt RI** » Thu 15.06.2006, 05:26

I was considering the Phantom more because of time (I have upgrades requiring cracking the tranny anyway) and not wanting to have to get into the transmission twice if I can help it seeing as it is a bit of an involved job...

I don't like taking product shortcuts, so yes Russ- I agree that a Quaife would be preferable, but I don't have the ability to start the order due to my where I hang my hat and based on Darren's hardships the last time around did not want to try and recruit someone into a headache.

So, yes- ailwyn- I would be interested if someone in the UK is up to taking on the task!

Perhaps a new thread should be started to answer your question about how many willing parties there would be. Price is generally the main obstacle- IIRC each is about a grand US?

by **Darren** » Thu 15.06.2006, 14:10

ailwyn wrote:How many people here would be interested in a Quaife? I for one would be after one, there must be others in the UK?? Once delivered they could be sent onwards overseas?

Ailwyn

I didn't take too much notice of Phibo's warning when I placed the last order but I can tell you after the fact, that those wise words are still ringing in my ears.

If I had any advice for you, I'd say DON'T do it. When you're playing with multiple orders of £450 each, then should anything go wrong, you'll be the one to pick up the pieces, sorry, that's you and your wallet.

I only ordered 10 units but even so, I ended up with 2 none payers or put in real terms £900+, which ok, I did manage to get back by selling one on Ebay & one to Monty but not before I'd paid two months interest charge on that amount.

Also, don't underestimate PayPal costs + the volatile ££ vs $$ i.e you can give someone a price one week and be up to £5 to £10 per unit out as the conversion rate has changed. Owwwwww and lets not forget postage fun and games i.e I posted 4 units internationally one day & spent the best part of 40 minutes in the post office & that was after I'd been queuing for 10 minutes.

If you want one, speak to Quaife, as I know for a fact that there's one or two still left on the shelf.

Darren.

by **Ashaman** » Fri 16.06.2006, 23:08

Some of you probably already know, but Robie from Isuzone has some good information on LSDs on his page at:

http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/geo_ ... ission.htm

I still wouldn't bother with the Phantom Grip, personally. I am not even sure about the Quaiffe. Maybe when I replace my clutch (probably soon unfortunately) if one were available for a reasonable price I would want to.

I just don't see as big of an advantage in these cars. In my M coupe, I think it is big plus; but that car is rear wheel drive where it tends to show more.

I do think it is better of course, I am just not convinced it is worth the time and money unless you are 1-putting out a good deal of power, 2-drag racing (you really should pick a better platform if so...), or 3-Road/AutoX racing.

The Elan always feels controlled in hard corners, but with the Quaiffe even more so. It just isn't readily apparent IMO unless you are really pushing it hard.

So - hard launches, hard corners. Depending on how you drive, I can see how you might not notice it at all. For the time & money, it is pretty far down on my list of mods.

by **joeisuzu** » Sun 26.11.2006, 19:49

The Quaifes I think run about $1200 US, I wouldn't bother with a phantom grip, I have AWD in my impulse and it has an LSD in the rear differential, which is the only reason I didn't get one for it. I had put the turbo isuzu motor in my geo, which was FWD only and damn did I wish I had it then, I coudl smoke the one tire all the way into third gear... I can tell you the one for the impulse RS will fit in the elan, as they have the same transmission except for the gearing differences and the elan not haveing AWD...

by **HIBUTK** » Wed 07.09.2011, 17:38

I took the less expensive route and went with the Phantom Grip. They may be located in Florida and close to me, but did they ever answer their voice mail messages - NO.
Mine needed a little slimming to slip into the open diff. Not easy being hardened steel.
Had it in 6 years now. Of course I can spin both tires easily. Autocross: I feel I am fighting understeer and feel I am slower due to inside wheel needing to rotate as much as the outer since they are locked together. Do I over use the wheel spin to my disadvantage - probably.
Track Days - it felt great.
Would I do it again -NO.
By the way, anyone have a used Quaife for sale? ;-)

Mike k

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