Pinky II

[Monty]

Been up to Peco today to have a 2nd silencer fitted as it was a little loud for me. Also had Pinky on the rolling road and produced 176 bhp at the wheels which is about 206 bhp at the fly but Dave recons that the Bailey dump valve is opening to early. Anyways a did a quick video using my mobile phone, i can`t get it to play on W/media or quick time but i had to download the latest real player to get it to work. So i`ve uploaded it to photobucket but for some reason theres no sound



Click on the screen below

[Monty]

Uploaded to U Tube and has sound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyq12iX5tMM

[Nige]

Good figures Monty, bang in the zone for an Everest chip and larger exhaust, suggests the stiffy doen't make a deal of difference though if you've eliminated the pre-cat housing by other means (although it should save a kg or 2).

[Monty]

Yeah, have to agree. If u`r going to port the wastegate then it`s worth fitting the stiffy. Another weird thing is i`m only getting 1 BHP higher than Dave`s (Peco) SE and his doesn`t have a chip just standard besides the exhaust so doesn`t say to much about the chip really unless this was down to the crapy dump valve as this was passing even on low revs.

Another problem i`ve got ever since i fitted the samco hoses is the ressy won`t hold the coolant keeps throwing it out and i`m just hoping it`s not the head gasket, so i`ll need to do some test

[John_W]

... Another weird thing is i'm only getting 1 BHP higher than Dave's (Peco) SE and his doesn't have a chip just standard besides the exhaust so doesn't say to much about the chip really unless this was down to the crapy dump valve as this was passing even on low revs.

Monty,
it's not what you've got, it's how you can use it.

Apart from the obvious, what I mean is that I would expect the dyno results from the chipped and non-chipped car to be close. What matters is the way the power and torque come in. I don't suppose you were running Elanscan during the dyno run? It's well worth doing so.

The key is in how quickly the boost and power develop.

The larger unsquished exhaust does allow more power through boost creep. Although the car without the Everest will get to almost the same BHP figure on a dyno as the car with the chip plus exhaust, this is mostly due to boost creep and your everest-equipped car will be much faster on the road. The chip allows you to get the boost NOW (or at least following ESM's carefully-planned profile) as opposed to waiting for the exhaust to allow boost-creep to eventually get you there.

Your leaking dump valve wouldn't have helped either.

John

edited to say:
have a look at these graphs of my dyno comparisons:
big exhaust boost creep on dyno
elanscan chip comparisons
standard chip v everest power with big exhaust
standard chip v everest torque with big exhaust

Make no mistake, if you have to choose between the Everest chip and a big exhaust,
fit the Everest chip every time and fit it first

[Nige]

Agree with John entirely. The graphs he produced that were displayed at Stoneleigh and Donington clearly show that in terms of absolute power and torque a big exhaust will give you roughly similar figures whether the car is chipped or not. A standard exhaust strangles the chip so that seems not to be an option. The real difference is in the delivery of the power and torque, with a big exhaust alone you have no real control over boost creep and therefore over the delivery profile. With the chip you get full control and more useable power where you need it.

[John_W]

Thanks Nige.

[Monty]

Dam i didn`t even think about running the ElanScan Mine u had other things on my mine.

Well Dave over lapped his run over mine and there wasn`t much in it and most of the graph showed the runs were very similar no reall big difference

[Nige]

If you plot power or torque against RPM (which is what Dynos produce) they will look simiar. However, if you wind time into the equation you should get a clearer view. I assume you did power runs on the Dyno? If so they will hold it at full throttle until power drops off. The overall run is as longt as it takes, the chipped car should have a shorter time to peak power as it is more responsive.

[John_W]

Dam i didn't even think about running the ElanScan ... Dave over lapped his run over mine and there wasn't much in it and most of the graph showed the runs were very similar no reall big difference

Monty,
Like I said, the dyno will show both to be similar in ultimate power. What matters is how they get there, which is what the Elanscan graphs in my previous post demonstrate.

If you plot power or torque against RPM (which is what Dynos produce) they will look simiar. However, if you wind time into the equation you should get a clearer view.

Precisely.

The standard car may (eventually) put out almost the same power as a chipped car, but you're relying on boost creep from the big exhaust to do it, with the associated delay in power delivery of approx ten seconds (according to the first graph), as opposed to power "on-demand" from the chip.

John

[Avonvilla]

Yeah, have to agree. If u'r going to port the wastegate then it's worth fitting the stiffy. Another weird thing is i'm only getting 1 BHP higher than Dave's (Peco) SE and his doesn't have a chip just standard besides the exhaust so doesn't say to much about the chip really

Think your comparing Dave's flywheel figure with your wheels figure ? His ebay ad states 175bhp up from 152bhp standard which are flywheel figures surely.

[Monty]

Yeah, have to agree. If u'r going to port the wastegate then it's worth fitting the stiffy. Another weird thing is i'm only getting 1 BHP higher than Dave's (Peco) SE and his doesn't have a chip just standard besides the exhaust so doesn't say to much about the chip really

Think your comparing Dave's flywheel figure with your wheels figure ? His ebay ad states 175bhp up from 152bhp standard which are flywheel figures surely.

No thats at the wheel mate

[Avonvilla]

Yeah, have to agree. If u'r going to port the wastegate then it's worth fitting the stiffy. Another weird thing is i'm only getting 1 BHP higher than Dave's (Peco) SE and his doesn't have a chip just standard besides the exhaust so doesn't say to much about the chip really

Think your comparing Dave's flywheel figure with your wheels figure ? His ebay ad states 175bhp up from 152bhp standard which are flywheel figures surely.

No thats at the wheel mate

you sure ? so a standard car is 152bhp at the wheels ?

[Monty]

Yep i`m sure, he overlayed his results over mine and he only does it at the wheels as it`s more accurate, he can calculate at fly. Not sure on the standard bhp that doesn`t seem right there seems to be 30 bhp lost from the fly to the wheels which would make standard about 135 at the wheels

[Avonvilla]

Yep i'm sure, he overlayed his results over mine and he only does it at the wheels as it's more accurate, he can calculate at fly. Not sure on the standard bhp that doesn't seem right there seems to be 30 bhp lose at the fly which would make standard about 135 at the wheels

well the figures he's quoting on ebay are defiantly flywheel as they would look more impressive for marketing and people only ever quote flywheel figs as thats what manufactures quote and that makes sense with what he's quoting, 152 standard for a used car with probably a knackered exhaust hence the change of exhaust.

maybe the car he overlayed was another leccers ?

[Monty]

I`ve not seen the quote on the ebay listing, but don`t think that is Dave quoting those figures, think that was PNM engineering selling them on ebay U don`t just get 10 bhp extra with an 2 1/4 exhaust it`s more like 40 bhp. So thats just a mistake and should say at the wheel. Peco`s rolling road only measures at the wheels.

[Avonvilla]

I've not seen the quote on the ebay listing, but don't think that is Dave quoting those figures, think that was PNM engineering selling them on ebay U don't just get 10 bhp extra with an 2 1/4 exhaust it's more like 40 bhp. So thats just a mistake and should say at the wheel. Peco's rolling road only measures at the wheels.

Not convinced and it's still the same system isn't it ? 152bhp before 175.4 after have to be flywheel figures

THESE SYSTEMS GIVE AN INSTANT PERFORMANCE GAIN - PROVEN ON A DYNOJET ROLLING ROAD*

BEFORE - 152 BHP, ***AFTER 175.4 BHP***

BHP INCREASE OF OVER 15%

BEFORE 148.9 FT/LB, ***AFTER 158.4 FT/LB***

TORQUE INCREASE OF OVER 6%

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-LOTUS-ELAN-M1 ... dZViewItem

seller says cybox ?

[Monty]

Your not listening those readings are at the wheels, but i think they`ve quoting the wrong stock readings. Says nothing about the them being at the fly!

These are on my latest ES run. Peco system, stiffy, Everest chip and Dump Valve removed.





Edit, having trouble resizing these graphs

[Avonvilla]

Your not listening those readings are at the wheels, but i think they've quoting the wrong stock readings. Says nothing about the them being at the fly!

These are on my latest ES run. Peco system, stiffy, Everest chip and Dump Valve removed.





Edit, having trouble resizing these graphs

They are quoting before and after figures on the same car. All rolling roads take at the wheels figures but usually quote flywheel figues so you can compare them to manufacturer specs.

lol your not listening mate how can a stock car have 152bhp at the wheels which given the usual 15%ish transmission loss on all dyno runs i've ever seen on an elan means a stock car producing 180bhp, 15 up on manufacturer figures for a car that was a minium of 10 years old.

Somewhere someones figures are way out.

Your second graph doesn't look like your hittng full boost ?

[Monty]

Still not listening, THE STOCK READINGS THEY HAVE GIVEN MUST BE WRONG!

It`s a know fact that a bigger exhaust system gives u approx another 40 bhp on the Elan SE

So if those ebay readings were at the fly then u`r only gaining 10bhp over stock which is a load of bollocks.

So with bigger bore u should be getting approx 205 bhp at the fly even without the chip.