Trainee Mechanic

[Specky]

Said it was a pony job....

bleed bleed and bleed again... then drive.... then bleed bleed and bleed again...

TTFN

[ailwyn]

As long as it's not an exercise in futility (or of pouring away £10/litre fluid for bugger all) I'll persist

Ailwyn

[ailwyn]

ok, I finally admitted defeat, but I'm not too disheartened, I got 90% of the way there, just needed help at the final hurdle.

So I managed to strip down the rear brakes back to the suspension and rebuild, and replace the stock fronts with Wilwoods, well the mechanical bits anyway

Along the way I've sworn more than ever before (that was some challenge) skinned more knuckles than I care to remember, bled, cried, and almost lost the will to go on.

The particular lows were snapping a bolt in the rear hub carrier, rounding out the allen bolt holding the front discs to the hubs, and the 3 week wait to get some 50p bolts from SJs when they cocked up my order, told me the bolts were obsolete and that there was no chance of getting a suitable replacement, then to turn around and realise they mixed my order up with someone else's

High points though have been finally getting the back brakes back on car, managing to remove one of the rounded bolts myself, seeing the wilwood discs fitted for the first time, and feeling the turbo kick in during my drive today to the tyre fitters It's been so long I forgot how much of a kick it gives

Not quite there yet though, there's still the last 10% to go, after bleeding, driving, re-bleeding, driving again, the pedal is still very spongy, so bad infact it's failed the MOT

My mechanic is going to have one last go at bleeding the brakes tomorrow, if it still doesn't improve, it's a new master cylinder. I am at the point now that I need for my own sanity to get the car back on the road, so I'll leave it with the garage to get sorted, that way I'll be back on the road next week...... can't wait

I don't think I've done too badly for a first attempt but I would have thrown in the towel a long time ago if it weren't for the help and support of those on this forum.

THANK YOU!

[algirdas]

Dear Ailwyn:

GOOD JOB! BRAVO!

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[GeoffSmith]

Well done Ailwyn. You can be proud of what you've achieved and don't be too disheartened by calling in some help at the last minute. Enjoy the rest of the Summer and the next job you tackle won't seen half as bad.

Geoff

PS Sorry about the below-the-belt Donington 2007 dig - it was in very bad taste.

PPS Peco and roll bar for Donny?

[ailwyn]

Algirdas, Geoff,

Thanks, yourselves, Dico and the others on here who have provided me with the encouragement to continue are the reason I have got this far! Please take a bow

PS Sorry about the below-the-belt Donington 2007 dig - it was in very bad taste.

Geoff, I have come to expect nothing but bad taste from you

Peco and roll bar for Donny?

Definately hoping for the PECO by Donny, that's more down to Dave and PECO than myself, Rollbar should also be do-able, but let's see!

[muley]

Ailwyn,

Hang on in there - it seems you've done more than 90% of the job!!

Once it's fully sorted you'll have a good braking system.


Some of us have been there as well so I know how you feel (I think)


Take care

Jim


p.s. I have a theory* about the brake bleed problem and it is that air bubbles get stuck in the compensating valve - the brakes on my black Elan were rubbish for a few days despite repeated bleeding but steadily improved. The brakes on the blue one are brilliant (even tho it's a standard set up) but the valve looks clean and shiny so I suspect the previous owners had it replaced...

*probably complete bollox!

[Candles]

I agree with your theory as I've had a proportioning valve apart and there is a recess inside the device that is higher than the brake pipe on either side, hence could trap air. I think this is why driving it helps as it shakes it loose and it finds its way elsewhere to be re-bled out next time.

I hate to sound arrogant here, but I'm quite often tinkering with the brakes and I never fail to get a rock solid pedal every time (fingers crossed) since the first time I tried four years ago!

My current secret is the reservoir cap from a pressure bleed kit hooked up to my compressor set at ~10psi. I have the car level and work the handbrake a few times. Then I attach a clear hose to the caliper nipple and open it with a ring spanner. You can watch the bubbles, grime, sludge etc coming out of the hose and into a small recepticle. Once the fluid is clear and nice, close nipple. Job done once all four complete.

In my opinion, the pedal pumping trick (2 persons) works, but every cycle is a potential cock-up and air can leak in through the nipple threads. Pressure bleeding takes away any guesswork and avoids damaging the master cylinder.

(climbs down from soap box filled with bottles of brake fluid)

Candles.

[ailwyn]

Well, I now have the car back from the MOT with a lovely green pass certificate (as opposed to the nasty red one I first got handed

My advisory notes that there is a slightly corroded brake pipe, and the rear of the exhaust looks like it doesn't have much life left.... not the end of the world, just glad it was nothing too serious.

Brake pedal still feels like sh*t although it has improved over it's feel/operation when I handed it over to the garage.

I'll give it a week of driving around and if it hasn't improved any I'll get the garage to fit a new master cylinder.

Just glad to have it back on the road now, have to get used to the extra power again after it's been so long without it

Ailwyn

[muley]

My current secret is the reservoir cap from a pressure bleed kit hooked up to my compressor set at ~10psi.

...a top tip. I'll definitely try that next time as any more pressure from a slight deflated spare tends to send brake fluid all over the bonnet area! Nice one!


Jim

[algirdas]

Dear Ailwyn:

I'm curious to see what the others say on this, but it seems to me that if the master cylinder was fine before the Wilwood upgrade, it should be fine today. And I think it is safe to say that the brake pedal will feel "different" with the Wilwoods because you have the same diameter master cylinder moving the same volume of fluid but now "pumping" it into four pistons instead of one.

This question I would like to throw out to everybody: Should those people doing the Wilwood upgrades also need to consider upgrading the master cylinder to a larger diameter master cylinder? I know that from a previous post, Alan had found a 24 mm fixture compatible brake master cylinder. Should we be looking for these? Or is 1.8 MM in bore change just not worth it?

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[John_W]

Don't know about you 16" wheel guys, but the Wilwoods on 15" wheels give much better brake feel than I used to get with standard calipers (same master cylinder, bled using the Gunsons' pressure bleed kit) and Andrew Ennis's 16" Hi-Specs were rock solid when I tried his.

Sounds like more driving/bedding followed by more bleeding needed to me.

John

[F1 LOTUS]

Rock solid

[Doug]

Sounds like more driving/bedding followed by more bleeding needed to me.

it sucks, but

[ailwyn]

Drove the elan to work this morning, and by the time I arrived the brakes felt a lot better, still very spongey though, and if I press down the pedal will stop just short of the floor, but it is starting to brake a lot sooner in the pedal travel.

Ailwyn

[Gazza]

My pedal is rock solid now, but wasn't to start with. Just got better with use.

Just got to get the calipers cleaned to stop the creeking noises.

Gary

[ailwyn]

Well, it's that time of year.... last years advisory has turned into this year's MOT failure.

Brake pipes all over the shop are corroded and one has even sprung a small leak

Have got on order a load of copper pipe, nuts, and tools to make the pipes, and I'm confident in doing the pipes that are fully accessible from under the car, my problem comes with those pipes which are only accessible from the engine bay, and seen as I need to replace the pipes from the master cylinder to the front brakes, I may as well do the lot and replace the master cylinder at the same time (as that's pretty much shagged too).

My initial question is this:
What do I need to remove/relocate in order to gain the required access to the master cylinder and to renew the pipes that run behind the engine?

Looks to me like the wheel arch liners need to come off (that one's a given), power steering reservoir needs to be shifted, the wiper mechanism needs to be removed and ideally the intake plenum/upper intake pipe should also be removed. Is this enough? Does the clam need to be removed too or is it possible/practical to replace the brake pipes with it in place?

Thanks

Ailwyn

[GeoffSmith]

Sorry to hear the news Ailwn.

Mark (LotusKa) did it through the wheel arch - this would be worth reading.

Geoff

[ailwyn]

Ok, this is my progress so far.

I have made and fitted my first brake pipe... I'm well chuffed even if the shape is not as well defined as the original. Let's just hope it doesn't p*ss brake fluid everywhere when I fill her up.

Getting the master cylinder off is a whole different matter.

I removed the PAS reservoir bracket and manoeuvred the reservoir towards the front of the car to get a few extra inches of access.

I also removed the RH wheel arch liner (was a doddle... thanks Dave ).

I removed the outer master cylinder nut, piece of cake, but the inner nut seems to be impossible to access. I can't get a socket onto it from the front because the pipe fitting partly obscures it. I have tried removing the pipe nut from the master cylinder to get better access, and although slightly improved it still won't play ball.

I can't access it with a spanner either because of the wiper mechanism etc, and there is zero access through the wheel arch.

My plan is to remove this nut, which should then allow enough manoeuvring room to remove the master cylinder from the servo unit, and then lift it slightly to get better access to the lower pipe fittings.

Note that on the master cylinder there are two sizes of pipe nut, 11 & 13mm... it did take me a while to figure out why I couldn't get the brake pipe spanner to fit from any direction

Has anyone got personal experience of getting this nut off who can provide pointers?

Thanks

Ailwyn

[Doc Fizzix]

Have you tried a crow's foot adapter?