Elan #2, "Whitey"

[GeoffSmith]

Before ESMs chips this was the preferred option for running more boost a manual boost control and a Fuel Cut Defeater or Clamp.

The stone age! Unknown to me, mine had a mildly tweeked MBC and £500 chip "upgrade" (not Mountain) which was fine until the wastegate stuck and all hell broke loose. The Superchip merely inhibited fuel cut off (i.e. digital FDC) and boost went as high as it wanted. The ECU meantime assumed 0.65bar and the engine was running as lean as hell - just look at Paul Watkin's piston for what can happen by running lean.

time for Geoff to build some ?? another electronic project for him . . .

NO! Apart from having quite enough to keep me busy, I think MBC'c, FDC's and their ilk are a retrograde step. If you go that route, then FDC's are advertised on eBay for £10 or >$100 but are not selling like hot cakes! There are even DIY designs but be careful because this one isn't temperature conpensated and the clamp could easily vary by ±¼V under the bonnet/hood.

Personally, I think that the sensible way is to go the Mountain route, as all the safety features are maintained and it is based on a good understanding of what is going on - i.e. well engineered. As Nige says, the mappings are rich at higher boosts, but maybe one day there will be a lean burn release for track days.

Incidentally, how are you adjusting your boost Matt? Presumably it is an MBC or similar.

Geoff

[nitroman]

You say Stone age, I say Old School. Since I ran at 1.5bar with nitrous for 4-years & 41k-miles with "manual" controls which had been originally adjusted on a dyno with an A/F ratio meter; I'm comfortable going that route... as others have reported the "chip" as not building boost as quickly, especially lower in the rev-range. Besides it's very easy to know when an engine is not running correctly. However, so-called experts who say a certain amount of detonaton/valve-clatter is acceptable simply have no 1st-hand experience with what they're talking about. I accepted their advice with my Maserati Spyder twin-turbo and ended up with a burned-valve & a $3,000 valve-job. With that car I learned that all the expensive octane boosting products carried in major auto chain-stores are nearly worthless. The only one which made a major difference in the Maser (all people should have to drive that car as it is very sensitive and therefore a great training tool) was Bardahl Insted O' Lead Gold. When the EPA pushed to have all products which contained actual (real) lead taken off the market it quickly disappeared from store shelves. There are only 2 companies I know of which still sell it & I bought 20-bottles at the discount price of only $2.50/bottle! As well as having lead which lubricates & cushions valve-seats and other components & raises octane too, the Gold version also has more Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (MMT) than any other product; even those you'll pay close to $10/bottle for. I say this based on actual results obtained, having tried every product available over the Maser's 5-year ownership period.

BTW, too much petrol is not always a bad thing. Experience a Holley accelerator-pump throwing 50cc of raw fuel into an engine http://wpsracing.com/hoacpu30to50.html and tell me how bad it feels! It feels just like a JATO rocket with a two-second burn-time. The yellow & red plastic parts at the lower-right are non-circular to control different release-rates for the 50cc petrol-reservoir. One dumps the contents faster and has a shorter burn-time & the other releases slower but with a longer burn-time. You don't want to bog the engine; the rest is personal preference. I forget how many of these "wheels" are available to tinker with but something in the realm of 6 to 12 sounds right. I can tell you there are exactly 3 different springs (center of picture) against which the rubber-diaphragm presses against before releasing the fuel. I installed the weakest spring as it is controlled by intake-vacuum pulling against the secondaries in a 4bbl carb before they open, allowing more air & fuel to enter the engine. That is what is meant by the term "vacuum secondaries." There is also a mechanical variety of the Holley model 4160 which is simply controlled by your foot pulling the cable open. I rather prefer vacuum control as it is a natural process which when enough pull is exerted by the engine (when it is truly ready) the additional intakes will open. Carbs with two accelerator-pumps instead of just one are called "double-pumpers." Time to go; class dismissed.

[nitroman]

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=39605&SortOrder=1 Sorry, I'm not giving up my cheap source; he might go out of stock, for real! Besides this is the ONLY other place I know of where you can get it. Also check out their super-cool MGB supercharger http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=37878 An MGB is one of those cars I ergonomically fit very well in, yet have never owned. I did own an MG Midget once. Little kids loved that car; played in it like it was a big toy car! I had a tonnea for it and a super cute girl said "cool, a car for one!" What a stunner she was; one of those women you remember 25-years on having only seen her.

[Doc Fizzix]

... I installed the MAP-clamp. I installed it reverse first, which the car didn't like (cranked but wouldn't even start), so I simply reversed it and all is swell. Since I'd done all the wiring already to plug into the stock 3-prong it was a 30-second job to simply unplug, turn 180-degrees, and press it home again. Now it runs even better; all in my mind I'm sure, but that's my story & I'm sticking to it!

So Matt, are you giving up your source on this one?

Do you have a link and can you send me in the right direction? I need this so I can boost past stock with my T-Bird upgrade,

Thanks

[nitroman]

Patrick King, $150. I don't know where my receipts for the old car are right now & that pisses me off cuz I knew a few weeks ago before my pretty friend cleaned up this place. As soon as I find them I'll contact you with his email, phone number, and the volts & amps, etc. for the MAP.

[nitroman]

Not a bad memory for 11/06/2001, eh?
Name as stated
day phone (603)880-3896 ext. 105
home phone (978)422-7961
pking@mindspringcomputing.com

I provided him with some other info like volts & amps. Feel free to have him email or call me if you'd like. He sent me a page showing which wires (colours) to hook it up to... but I bought GM male & female MAP connectors (3-pin) so I wouldn't have to splice into the car's wiring.

[Doc Fizzix]

Thanks Matt

One more question, are you using the stock MAP? What did you have on old red, the stock MAP?

Thanks

[nitroman]

stock MAP & stock MAP (I like things that are in stock, especially this near Xmas)

[Aurora40]

the Gold version also has more Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (MMT) than any other product; even those you'll pay close to $10/bottle for.

For what it's worth, auto manufacturers feel MMT can compromise the life of engine controls, fouling plugs, cats, and O2 sensors:
http://www.chevron.com/products/PRODSER ... ng/pg4.asp

BTW, too much petrol is not always a bad thing. Experience a Holley accelerator-pump throwing 50cc of raw fuel into an engine http://wpsracing.com/hoacpu30to50.html and tell me how bad it feels!

Also FWIW (maybe nothing)... Carburetors have an accelerator pump or pump shot mainly due to the wet intake manifold and the flow of air and fuel. It takes longer for fuel move through the manifold than air, so when you crack open the carb, the engine would otherwise lean out. That's why the pump shot only happens when the throttle is cracked open, not the whole time the engine is at WOT.

With a dry manifold and fuel injectors placed right by each intake valve, plus the much better atomization fuel injectors deliver, this really isn't a problem on FI cars. If you run your car overly rich at WOT, it generally speaking will cost you some power.

Edit: I apologize if I'm talking out my @zz, it almost seems like you are referring to another, carbureted car, but I can't seem to see where the car is mentioned?

[nitroman]

Believe your books. I was only there and actually did the things the article talks about. Direct and actual experience can never compete with the written word. FWIW I have always removed CatConvertors from my cars. From what I know of them, clogging is not so much the issue as coating the rare metals such as platinum, rhodium and palladium... which catalyses NO and NO2 to N2 and O2. If you coat the very fine surface with another material then the desired chemical reaction won't take place.

Seems MMT was wiped out in the USA by legislation passed in 1996, which explains why all the good products disappered at that time. That is something I didn't know about but sure explains why the products disappered; something which did not go unnoticed by me. I have never noted a build-up of deposits as only the petrol companies claimed, not the aftermarket manufacturers. I believe large petrochemical companies are the paragon of fairness & honesty, just like tobacco companies.

Also, dumping raw fuel into the intake-stream has been a fixture of performance caruretors since the late 1950s. It is called an accelerator-pump, and it is well-named. Having experimented with different cams which either released the fuel-reservoir "immediately" or over a drawn-out period always proved to me that more-fuel-faster resulted in the greatest kick-in-the-pants.

[Nige]

but I bought GM male & female MAP connectors (3-pin) so I wouldn't have to splice into the car's wiring.

I still have some of the male and female connectors complete with all internal parts should anyone need a set. In the pre-chip days I had a MBC and home made FCD and had to buy a minimum number of the connectors.

[Aurora40]

Believe your books. I was only there and actually did the things the article talks about. Direct and actual experience can never compete with the written word. FWIW I have always removed CatConvertors from my cars. From what I know of them, clogging is not so much the issue as coating the rare metals such as platinum, rhodium and palladium... which catalyses NO and NO2 to N2 and O2. If you coat the very fine surface with another material then the desired chemical reaction won't take place.

Well, if you remove your cats, it stands to reason you've never had a plugged one. But they can get plugged. The spacing between the honeycomb is pretty narrow, even if it only got coated, that could certainly restrict flow as the coating builds up.

But anyway, I'm not really sure what books you are talking about me reading, or what things you were "there" for and actually did. You were there when various auto manufacturers did testing of MMT? You've done your own testing of MMT vs other fuel additives?

Also, dumping raw fuel into the intake-stream has been a fixture of performance caruretors since the late 1950s. It is called an accelerator-pump, and it is well-named. Having experimented with different cams which either released the fuel-reservoir "immediately" or over a drawn-out period always proved to me that more-fuel-faster resulted in the greatest kick-in-the-pants.

Yup, I don't think I said anything to the contrary when in regards to carburetors and a wet intake manifold? It is to solve a specific problem with that type of setup. I'm not overly sure what the point is, or the relation to fuel injection, though.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to derail your project thread. Just thought you might be interested in some pieces of info. Clearly you aren't, and the tone of your reply seems rather angry, so I'll just step out of it.

[nitroman]

For what it's worth, auto manufacturers feel MMT can compromise the life of engine controls, fouling plugs, cats, and O2 sensors:
http://www.chevron.com/products/PRODSER ... ng/pg4.asp

But anyway, I'm not really sure what books you are talking about me reading, or what things you were "there" for and actually did. You've done your own testing of MMT vs other fuel additives?

Yes, in fact I have. My many years of personal experience giving every octane-enhancer on the store-shelf a try was the entire point I was making. It is somewhat bewildering that this escaped you. I found the one which worked best & stuck with it; going so far as to super-glue velcro onto an 8oz bottle which I mounted in the corner of the boot and used at each fill-up. Did I begin speaking Latin again? That happens to me so often. Hail Ceasar! The only "book" I was talking about was your link. If you'd read the link yourself you'd have known that.

The average "clogged" converter takes 125,000-miles to get that way & is usually caused by metal engine shavings and rusty pieces of the exhaust system flaking off and exhaust gaskets which have become so dried-out that the force of the exhaust going by breaks off pieces of them. This clogging (which never reaches 100%) is far surpassed by converters which have become overheated (900/925F) for an extended period such that they simply melt which obviously causes an obstruction (which in some cases is complete). A melted substrate is the leading cause of converter replacement. This info comes from my old exhaust guy in Jacksonville who has been in business since the 1950s. In any case, clogging is not caused by (non-metallic) additives, which at most can only cause the converter to simply stop performing its chemical reaction function. These are not my words, but the words of someone I have known since I was 17, which means 27-years. He has no vested-interest in skewing the truth and as such I believe him.

My plugs never became fouled by MMT, however I have never tried it in a car with an O2 sensor. If I had detonation I would certainly give it a try in such a vehicle however, for even if I had to remove and clean the sensor periodically, and that's assuming the worst, it is far better for the engine than allowing detonation to continue.

[nitroman]

Since watching the temp go to 3/4 on the gauge is psychologically different when on vacation 700-miles from home, I finally installed the low-temp thermal switch today after owning it for 4-years!

I went with the ultra-low ON @ 195f & OFF @ 185f. I had thought this perhaps too close to the 180f thermostat, but no, it is a perfect match with a more than comfortable cushion. The fans now come on at 1/4 on the gauge, and I have to admit it is very comforting.

[nitroman]

To my pleasant surprise I am finally at the point where I can start working on the car again. Perhaps not insanely as I did before, but sensibly. Funny how post-surgery pain goes away so quickly after lingering for so long.

I was beginning to think that I'd have to live in a swimming-pool or the ocean for the rest of my life. Too bad there isn't a gravity dial on the wall which you can set at 30%, you know, right beside the temperature thermostat!

Anyway, (real) work permitting; look for things to start happening again to 'ole Whitey.

[Doug]

look for things to start happening again to 'ole Whitey.

does this mean you are getting some work done or another surgery, Matt

[nitroman]

At my age working always leads to another surgery! Guess that makes me 'ole Whitey (b.1962) VS young Whitey (b.1991). Truth be told, young Whitey breaks more than I do!

The real truth is that I've had a bad back (hereditary) for a long, long time, but I stayed active in Florida 365 days a year so my muscles took lots of the load off the disc. After my 2nd winter here in Atlanta I went out on the 1st warm weekend (March 15, 2005) and worked my usual 14-hours-straight... which is a no-can-do after Winter hibernation.

[nitroman]

Last night I dropped the glove-box to take a gander at what I had in store for installing the radio this coming weekend. Among other things I checked-out the recent installation of the CDL-remote mechanism. While impressed that he was able to figure out which wires to run from the remote-module to the CDL-module (he's probably installed these a thousand times) I noticed that the black-ariel wire on the remote-module was still tie-wrapped. I had perused the remote-module instructions he left in the car and it stated that the ariel-wire was to be extended as straight as possible for the greatest reception. With that done I can now open/close the car doors from my house, 40ft from the detached garage. Before I almost had to be able to touch the car for the remote to work... proving again the old adage, "If you want something done right, do it yourself."

[nitroman]

T-Bird turbo partially disassembled for polishing. The outlet took 2-hours. Damn sure not doing the housing today. The standard $100 charged for a polished-compressor-housing when you buy a brand-new turbo seems like a bargain.

[nitroman]

Jet-Hot ceramic-coated water-pipes awaiting Samco hoses.