"The Green Monster"

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"The Green Monster"

Postby Houdini » Sat 27.08.2005, 17:19

I may be going further into the dark side then I originally intended. I now have the roll bar, Brian's Wilwood brakes, Quaife LSD, Aluminum Flywheel, new clutch, AB shift cables, Garrett upgrade charge cooler, Haltech, and GAZ adjustable shocks.

My original intent was a 250 HP street machine, but now I'm concidering the following in addition to the above with a completion time of no later than the Middle of March next year. Head work and port matching, RC fuel injectors, air to water charge cooler (no matter what anybody says they can and have been used in road racing), new custom Aluminum radiator, various gauges and misc. other stuff, and either a GT2860RS (325-350 HP), or GT2871R(400-425 HP) Garrett turbo.

The 400 HP is coming from a co-workers chalenge that I will probably ignor because that may be way too much. He has a 400HP (no juice) 1.6 Honda with a GT2871R that he uses as a track car. He won't let me drive it, but it's still streetable, although not very practicle. So unless something changes then around 325-350 is the goal

To accomplish this I need to keep costs down, so most of the work has to be done by me, and my work schedule has to improve so I have the garage time to get it done. This won't be a fast project, but I will keep all of you updated.

,Russ
Last edited by Houdini on Wed 23.11.2005, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Matt RI » Mon 29.08.2005, 16:05

Will definitely keep an eye on this thread, Russ- thanks for sharing your project with us! Will be very interested in the result...
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Re: Another Track Elan?

Postby Dave M » Mon 29.08.2005, 17:27

Turbocharger wrote:I may be going further into the dark side then I originally intended.

*insert spooky music and deep, laughing voice here*

Welcome, Russ. I'll show you to your table. :wink:

You know, if we both end up going the GT28RS route and find the lag not too bad, we'll have enough data that maybe Alan could make a chip... :roll:

Hmmm...325HP "bolt on" kit?
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Postby Houdini » Tue 30.08.2005, 00:39

Dave,

You know, if we both end up going the GT28RS route and find the lag not too bad, we'll have enough data that maybe Alan could make a chip...

Hmmm...325HP "bolt on" kit?


I'm lovin' how that sounds! :D

p.s. Your engine looks incredible!
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Re: Another Track Elan?

Postby Doug » Tue 30.08.2005, 07:56

Dave M wrote:Hmmm...325HP "bolt on" kit?


yes, please!
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Postby Costas » Wed 31.08.2005, 19:40

Got to add some comments here.

First of all the Honda that outputs 400hp with no "juice" is doing so at 8000+rpm, keep that in mind, there is NO way to acomplish such hp on the elan (with no juice) at 6300rpm (area of max power).

Out of my experience since I used-driven-racetracked the Elan in various Hp versions the best HP for our car is NO more than 250.

Yes at 300 or 350 or 400 the car is unbelievable fast and the feeling of acceleration is priceless, BUT you DO have bigger lag no matter what and therefore the car is becoming a straight line car than for race track use.

Above all, unless you install Quaife, and you do MAJOR upgrades on suspension, you wont be able to really use that power and on top the car will substeer on bents because of the stupid spinning.

Must add that the damage out of the use of a car with such large HP number is 10 times more than with the stock engine. And by saying "damage" i include all sorta things, from wheel ball bearins to shafts to pistons....

I personally enjoy it ON DAILY BASIS and havent regret it, but my Banker did regret it...... :?

GL anyways :)

Whatever help you need I will be very happy to help you in any way!
Last edited by Costas on Wed 31.08.2005, 21:31, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Houdini » Wed 31.08.2005, 20:26

.
First of all the Honda that outputs 400hp with no "juice" is doing so at 8000+rpm, keep that in mind, there is NO way to acomplish such hp on the Elan (with no juice) at 6300rpm (area of max power).


Yeh that Honda is spinning some very big numbers and that's why I don't want to go there. I know my pocket book can't take it as well.

.
Above all, unless you install Quaife, and you do MAJOR upgrades on suspension, you wont be able to really use that power and on top the car will substeer on bents because of the stupid spinning.


Got the Quaife already and the car will have some suspension mods.

Out of my experience since I used-driven-racetracked the Elan in various Hp versions the best HP for our car is NO more than 250.

Yes at 300 or 350 or 400 the car is unbelievable fast and the feeling of acceleration is priceless, BUT you DO have bigger lag no matter what and therefore the car is turning to a straight line car than for race track use.


I agree and always said 250 is the most you want for FWD street car, but I think 300-325 is acceptable and useable given the tracks here on the West coast. Hey it's not a big deal to me one way or another. If 325 is too much then I have many options to change out turbos to an acceptable HP level. I'm very very fortunate to have the support and resources here at work that allow me the flexibility to make some changes without spending a fortune.

I will be calling on all those who have gone there already for advice, so please I welcome all comments and suggestions. It only makes doing the transformation easier. :D
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Postby Dave M » Thu 01.09.2005, 13:27

I agree that 300+ HP can be a handful at times, but you are the one controlling the power. If you lay into it, be hanging on! Throttle modulation is all it takes to control things, and the Elan does this very well. Yes, the larger the turbo for more power, typically the larger the lag. Especially when we are throwing around 300-400HP figures. I plan to see how much lag results from such a step by eventually swapping in a GT28RS (probably next spring) for the current T3, but also what does the swap do to driveability in all situations. I still want a fairly responsive turbo that doesn't need 4,000+ rpm to be on the boost. Make sure to keep the stock cams, and a turbo swap will be almost transparent unless you are on the boost.

As for not being able to get 400HP out of the Elan without nitrous? Don't tell Mike K from the Isuzu board that. :wink:

http://www.isuzu-mods.com/Imark_RS/imark_rs.html

Granted, it's a 1.8L block swap, but if you threw enough boost at it, you'd get there with the 1.6L. Rumor has it Kip Anderson was running 400+ on his Impulse RS 1.6L before he sold it.

I would argue that having 300+ HP not only makes the car a better racetrack car, but that a racetrack is the only place to really use the power. Full throttle in first or second is an exercise in futility, but third-fifth is where the car shines with big power. And even then I'm not sure third would be 100% useable without the Quaife and sticky tires. But if you're on the boost in third to fourth, you are reaching triple-digit speeds in a wicked fast amount of time, so you should be on a racetrack! By "racetrack" I mean a road course, not 1/4 mi. Or possibly if you live near Athens, Greece... :wink:
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Postby ESM » Thu 01.09.2005, 14:22

Making a chip for this would be something I'd be very interested to do. Unfortunately I just put my old turbo in for reconditioning because I wasn't sure if/when the new turbo would be available... :roll:
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
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Postby Costas » Fri 02.09.2005, 00:10

Dave I did get 325hp at 1.5 and would get possibly 340 at 1.6bar boost. IF the engine was 1.8, yes it would get 400, but unfortunatelly its not.

Another argument that I want to post about is this: Many ppl who I know and modify their cars (around the world) tend to say what hp they manage at Dynoruns. Well I say "Who gives a fook about it?". Why? because 95% of them Dynorun at MAX possible setup and then drive their car on daily basis on 60% (maybe less) of that because else they are gonna blow it up. Well sorry but I dont care for that. I use Sh4rk 24/7 at 80-100% of its power capabilities. THATS what I care about. I didnt Dynorun at 1.5 and then run the car now at 0.7 for safety reasons. I now use the car at 2 setups 1.2 (in traffic 290hp no NOS) and 1.5bar (325hp no juice) all around the clock. When it comes hard times, NOS is added.

I know of Subarus, Evos, you name it, that managed 400+ hp but when pushed for a long time...... BOOM! Yet they claimed for amazing dynos or unbelievable quarter miles. Well. they should do a dozen on the row... I racetracked the Sh4rk at 1.2boost and after long hard driving the engine was working at iddle like it was never pushed around....

Based on that philosophy, my hat is off for Dave who builds a car at the edge of its power capabilities, for Race track use and not for str8 lines.

:)

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Postby Houdini » Mon 03.10.2005, 00:51

:D Some progress to report. I took the old Turbo, manifold, downpipe, etc. out today. Took approx. 6 hours which I didn't think was too bad. As you'll see in the pictures I test fit the new Turbo and there is plenty of room in there. One problem I wasn't expecting was the adapter I planned on using with a V-band. It looks like I may have to re-think that so I can have a nice clean downpipe. If I'm creative I might still be able to use this one but it will be tight. Anyway here are some pictures I took today.
Attachments
GT2854R_in.JPG
GT2854R test fit, orientation is not set and actuator is not attached
GT2854R_in.JPG (24.45 KiB) Viewed 4588 times
Manifold_with_adapter.JPG
New Manifold with adapter
Manifold_with_adapter.JPG (24.03 KiB) Viewed 4587 times
Old_IHI_out.JPG
Old IHI out
Old_IHI_out.JPG (24.8 KiB) Viewed 4587 times
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Postby Houdini » Mon 03.10.2005, 04:50

More pictures! Please ask questions and give constructive advise. I'll be getting a GT2860 RS ( Disco Potatoe) soon and test fitting it. It won't help the downpipe situation as that will be identical, however the compressor side will work as there is a ton of room there for it. Are you ready for 320+HP! with quick spool up!?
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Turbo Stuff.zip
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Postby Dave M » Mon 03.10.2005, 13:19

Looks good, Russ! Though it may be a little cramped getting an O2 housing/downpipe in there with that big flange on the turbine housing. Is that for the V-clamp? Just last night I was making my downpipe with the T3 and its small flange (no flapper valve attachment, either) and I'm close to needing a different radius U-bend as the power steering pump and the radiator hose are *close*. Add to that the fact I need to also squeeze the big Tial external wastegate in that space! No way I could do it if the AC compressor hadn't ended up in a box. :roll: :wink:

I'm very interested in seeing how the DP fits. Can't you get that with the T3-style outlet with no flapper valve? The compressor housing on that turbo may require just the right amount of spacing to clear both the engine and the front shell.

Let us know how things go. I'll be waiting for the pics!
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Postby davidjt » Mon 03.10.2005, 13:22

I've probably missed this somewhere, but what are you 300+ guys using for a clutch?
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Postby Houdini » Mon 03.10.2005, 16:03

Dave,

I'll check on the T3 turbine flange and housing for you. Off hand I don't know.

I'm going to have to come up with a different downpipe plan as that V-Band adapter takes up too much room. I feel your pain trying to miss the power steering pump. I'll have to remeasure but I think I have about 4 inches (100 mm) from the turbine housing outlet to the power stteering pump.

Davidjt

I've probably missed this somewhere, but what are you 300+ guys using for a clutch?

Dave and I are using a Clutch Specialties clutch
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Postby Costas » Mon 03.10.2005, 17:44

davidjt wrote:I've probably missed this somewhere, but what are you 300+ guys using for a clutch?


Tried it with success and with no problem at all, at 400+hp (almost 450)
Car launches instantly as long as there is grip on the road surface.

The 4 puk clutch
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later replaced the stock flywheel as well (picture shows the handmade one with the stock one) with a hand made competition one which is almost 1 kg lighter and of far better material quality as the phasmatographer indicated.
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Postby Houdini » Mon 03.10.2005, 21:26

A couple of helpfull things that worked for me.

First of all the instructions for removal of the Turbo worked fantastically. I found 2 additional things which helped out my removal that may help others.

1)I removed the nuts that hold the downpipe to the turbine housing so it was loose. This allowed me to separate the downpipe from the turbo after the exhaust manifold was loose and I had wiggle room.
2)I removed the 3 bolts (8 mm wrench) that hold the actuator to the compressor housing allowing the actuator to hang loose. This gives you more room to move the exhaust manifold out and you clear all the studs easily. This also gives you the added room to slip the down pipe off so you reduce the weight you have to lift out.
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Postby Ashaman » Tue 04.10.2005, 03:26

Can't you get that with the T3-style outlet with no flapper valve?



Punch the flapper out, hog the innards with a carbide cutter, and weld the pivot hole closed :D
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Postby Houdini » Tue 04.10.2005, 03:47

Can't you get that with the T3-style outlet with no flapper valve?


Yes you can Dave. I just saw it on the ATP site.
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Postby Matt RI » Wed 05.10.2005, 16:01

Nice progress, Russ...

Do you have any other options to get to a stock outlet configuration now that the V-Band adaptor does not look feasible? If the result of your work is a bolt on turbo upgrade kit that is available for purchase, but it does not go with the stock j-pipe, then that will affect my interest in Stevo's Stiffy project. Have you checked out what he is working on for downpipe replacement?

http://lotuselancentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4918

The discussion on horesepower goals is very interesting. Thanks for posting tips on turbo removal!
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