Advice on Elan Prices

[garywbrooks]

I've found that when I try to give advice or explain things (Middle East conflicts/the morals of city fat cats) I just make things worse!

What the hell! Here goes....

As you can see from my website, I've bought and sold a 's**t load' of cars. Every single car I've bought, I've bought with the philosophy "Will I be able to sell it easily?". I know when I buy a car, there will come a time when I will want to sell it. So I try to buy a car with a FSH, a good interior and in a popular colour (It's not worth buying a beige Porsche with a green interior - if you want to sell it quick!).

The next step is not to pay over the odds for the car, as you will have a job getting your money back. So I check out the Auto Trader etc... and see what the average asking price is. Then using this average asking price, I knock 10% off and say to myself that's the price I want to pay. Now the tricky bit, finding some cars for sale. Go see them and if they fit the bill, show the vendor a selection of cars, like his, that are below his asking price and ask him to consider reducing the price of his. Sometimes they say they didn't know what to ask for their car and they are quite receptive to your suggestion, other times, they tell you to go buy one of them as their car is worth more. Its worth doing this after you've see the car for sale for 3 or 4 weeks as you'll find the vendor is more willing to come down in price. The problem with this tactic is you will miss some good cars, but if you're patient, you will get a good car for a good price.

OK, so you've bought your car, keep it well serviced and maintained and when you come to selling it, you simply have to decide what the car owes you. If you have been lucky and not had to pay for any maintenance, then you are doing well to only loss about £1000 per year of ownership. So if you've owned the car for 2 years you can expect to sell it for a couple of thousand less than you paid for it. If you are looking for a quick sale, you need to check the Auto-Trader and advertise your car for about the average price of cars like yours and expect to get about 10% knocked off it by the purchaser.


Now, that's the average car - The Lotus Elan. I'd always liked the Elan and wanted one from new. I kept my eye on their prices but for the first 5 years, they were holding up too well for me. The Elise came onto the scene and the Elan 'disappeared'. Prices began to fall as more and more Elises came onto the second-hand market and they got cheaper, plus along came the BMW Z3 and the Porsche Boxster (you can get one for £7K!) and this has narrowed the market of possible Elan buyers even more.

Anyway, in 2007, I noticed that Elans were coming onto the market and were being advertised for serveral weeks which got me thinking that there was room to haggle. I saw a nice sliver 1991 SE with FSH, 97K on the clock. They seller wanted £6,000ono and I offered him £5,000. He was looking for £5,500 which was not unreasonable but I thought I'd go check out some more. Strangely I noticed a lot of Elans advertised 'South of Watford' for less than £4,500. But I saw this aqua blue one for sale in Mansfield for £5,000ono (FSH, 71K on the clock) I thought if its right, I'll have it as it's cheaper from the start compared to the sliver one. I went to see the car, it was in as good condition as the silver one and when I asked him for his "best price", he came out with "I could have it for £4,400 as he wanted the car to go to an enthusiast as he was only offered £4,000 as a part ex". He was happy as he had got more than if he had traded it in and I was happy as I had got a good car for less than £5K. Reading the service history of the car, when I got home, I could see he had bought the car, in 2004 from a TVR dealer for £10,100! That's a big loss for 3 years ownership which I wouldn't of swallowed, but its down to "what's the car worth to you".

I wouldn't pay more than £6,000 for an Elan because if I had more than £6K, I'd buy a Porsche Boxster or a Lotus Elise. They are not the same, I know, but they are an interesting drive which would be easier to sell afterwards.

I'm keeping my Elan for now as there is no other car out there which offers such driving pleasure for such little money. Any other option out their will cost more to buy, more to run, more to maintain and you'll have to watch for rust etc..

[ailwyn]

Ailwyn.......Thank you so much.

As ever, your humble servant

[Jackonicko]

Humble? So that's how it's spelt.

Gary,

Great post, dude.

[martin_bailey_1]

Martin,
£4400 looks high for that car. We'll see what people are actually prepared to pay tomorrow, I guess. I'd guess that it will be somewhere around £2,500, give or take.

Honestly Jon ....... you're going to have to do much better than that, if you want folks to take you seriously........

........The auction ended this evening and your guess was a whole £11.00 off ................ poor show mate !

Cheers,

Martin.

[martin_bailey_1]

....... and another thing..... don't let that lying devil Brooks fool you !

His posting gives the impression that he's 'hard-nosed' and doesn't get emotionally attached to his cars.....

...... however, he brought his Elan over to 'Bailey Towers' the other week, and we spent a few hours giving it the full 'Martin's valeting' treatment, lovingly applying the full range of 'Doctor Autoglym's magic potions'.

The car scrubs up pretty well for an old 'un ..... (which is more than can be said for its owner!) ..... and Gary drove off muttering under his breath about buying it a new hood and some A-post seals .............. yep, he's smitten !

Martin.

[Jackonicko]

I'd want to underline that my 'guesstimate' was just my opinion as to what the car would fetch in the current climate. In some ways it saddens me that these cars are going so cheaply (though it means that the Aston Martin you're trading up to will be even cheaper, too!) and I do not say that £2,500 was the inherent 'true value' of this car.

[Enright]

Moved from Buyer's Guide - a good read:

Hi All, this may be posted in the wrong thread... moderators please move as reqd...

I Am currently looking at buying an Elan.and After 2 years of searching for an Elan here looks like I may have found a nice one. From what I have been told it's a LHD (which for here is good) either 91 or 92 model. extremely low milage.... was bought by the local ford dealer and has sat in his car collection since new.... ?? As yet not viewed the car but want some advice on what to offer...

Please could anyone offer any advice on how much to pay for an imaculate 91-92 car with low milage?? The guy is looking for (BD 4000) £6,500 which I believe is way too much for here..... a country where I believe there are 5 elans... ( but may be wrong have seen only 3 others).

Any advice greatly appreciaced....

It is the wrong place to post, but never mind that.

I'd say the price was about right (maybe even too low), as it sounds like it maybe just as it rolled off the production line.

The fact that there are only a few out there should make them worth more, rather than less - surely.

[Ocean Blue]

There's little doubt that Elan prices have dropped over the past couple of years but I dont think the current recession has got much to do with it. If it was the recession alone, then why is Paul Matty Sportscars selling Elan Sprints at up to £20,000 each like there is no tomorrow? The reason I believe is that the M100 is entering the classic car 'transition' stage. What do I mean by that? Well, there are probably a few people on this site that can remember when you could buy a Frogeye Sprite for a few hundred quid, or a Cooper S (the real one not the BMW monstosity) for under £2,000. Well just try buying one now. Prices have soared; we're talking thousands and in the case of the Cooper S, tens of thousands. But it wasnt always that way; the cars had to go through the classic 'transition' first. Another example; about 3 years ago I was thinking of buying a 'classic' Lotus. Baby Elans had already gone through the roof, but the +2 and the Europa were still fairly cheap. I started looking for a Europa and just missed a JPS limited edition that sold for a few thousand pounds. If you check out PH, you'll see the Europa has started to gain value significantly and a JPS one is worth a lot of money. Good +2's are also joining in the fun with price starting to climb for good late models. So what does this say about our beloved M100? Well over the next few years a number of the cheap 'sheds' will probabley disappear, reducing the overall number of cars available and this usually coincides with the 'classic car' movement 'discovering' the vehicle, so demand will start to outstrip supply and values will start to move forward. So what can the past tell us for the future? Well, if Elan prices are really on the deck, now's the time to go out and buy a really nice one. Treat it well and look after it and apart from having a totally sensational car, you'll possibly have an investment for the future. But we didn't buy our cars to be an investment did we? We bought them because even now, 20 years after launch, taken as an all round package, there is still nothing that IMHO comes close. Which leads me to another point; it's summer, the sun's shining. So for Gods sake instead of pouring over spread sheets and arguing about values, why dont we just get out there with the top down and enjoy these superb cars whilst we still can? Just my opiniun you understand and I wouldn't want to offend anyone! Phil

[Jackonicko]

Wayne,

I don't know where you are (Bahrain?), but I'd agree with Gary (gulp!).

In LHD markets, Elans do seem to fetch significantly more than they fetch over here.

£6,500 for a good, low mileage example really doesn't sound bad.

[Jackonicko]

Ocean Blue,

I sort of agree with some of what you say:

"Well, if Elan prices are really on the deck, now's the time to go out and buy a really nice one. Treat it well and look after it and apart from having a totally sensational car, you'll possibly have an investment for the future."

and

We didn't buy our cars to be an investment did we? We bought them because even now, 20 years after launch, taken as an all round package, there is still nothing that IMHO comes close. Which leads me to another point; it's summer, the sun's shining........ why dont we just get out there with the top down and enjoy these superb cars whilst we still can?

But the point of studying price trends, and of ascertaining what market values are ("pouring over spread sheets and arguing about values") is to help more people to "get out there with the top down and enjoy these superb cars."

Every single person buying an Elan at today's market price is buying a car that they could not have afforded two years ago. Those buying really nice cars like Tom Es and Roger Fs could perhaps have snapped up an Elan, but only a pretty rough one. Others could not have afforded an Elan at all.

I've helped a host of people find and buy Elans this year, and I'm delighted to see this new blood joining the community. The Elan is, as you point out, a car to be driven and enjoyed, and the community of owners is, generally, an open and welcoming community of like minded enthusiasts.

It would be a shame if it were ever to become an exclusive and unwelcoming community of snobbish pillocks who don't welcome new owners, and who would rather see the value of their cars rise than to see the marque being more widely enjoyed.

And on a practical level, I'm not sure that rarity is the key factor in driving prices. The Baby Elan is expensive in part because it is common - NOT because it is rare. What I mean by that is that there is a critical mass of cars that is big enough to support a cottage industry of suppliers and garages.

That's part of the reason why the baby Elan is worth money, while the Eclat and Excel aren't.

Old MGBs are as common as muck, but command reasonable prices. Austin Allegros are now as rare as hen's teeth, and are worthless. And so are TR7s - because the numbers are too small to support.

A big population of M100 Elans will mean it will be worth making parts, providing services - all of the things that make it attractive owning one! A small number of rarities will be harder for the average bloke to run, and therefore less desirable. Less desirable means lower demand, and that means lower prices.

[dapinky]

Every single person buying an Elan at today's market price is buying a car that they could not have afforded two years ago.

Bit of a wide, sweeping statement that one, Jon!

How can you possible know what I (or anyone else who'se bank accounts you haven't hacked into) can/could afford????

Besides which, the cars may have dropped a few quid, but so have house prices, so there would have been far more equity in your manor 2 years ago with which to buy a nice motor!

[Jackonicko]

Yes, true. I was making the unfounded assumption that Elan buyers bought the best Elan that they could afford.

A very sweeping generalisation.

The underlying point, though, is that Elans of all descriptions have become more affordable, and in doing so have become affordable to a new group of owners.

And that's a great thing.

[wayne]

Many thanks for the replys. I will be checking it out tomorrow and hope that it's in the same kind of condition that I have been told.

I would be buying it as a car to drive rather than an investment.

Here in Bahrain (a small island off the Eastern coast of Saudi Arabia, Used to be under British rule untill the 1970's) fortunatly for me the Elan is not a sought after car here. Most people seem to prefer American muscle cars than something with a small engine.

After owning an Elan here a few years ago I have always hoped to find another 1. After returning and un sucsessfully trying to buy back my old 1 and searching for 2 years I have since found 2 others. the first a 1992 model with 100,000 km that has been sat in a garage for over 2 years and is in a terrible state and is still there almost a year after I found it and the current 1 that I hope to bring home tomorrow...

I would prefer one that has low milage and is in good condition even if the price is higher as I know how expensive they can be to fix.

Once again many thanks for advice and I hope to post pictures soon....

Kindest Regards

Wayne

[wayne]

Just 1 more question... I know I willl probably find the info while searching the site but have run out of time....

What defects should I look for? corrosion is not an issue here it hardly ever rains and there's no need for salt on the roads so no wishbone problems etc.

I know roof seals, any plastic / rubber products could be shot unless it was stored in an air conditioned garage.

If not used then cambelt, waterpump, tensioners, battery,etc will need to be changed

Anything else that you could think of would be appreciated...