Australian Coolant - is there a chemist in the house?

[378S2]

G'day my pommie maa'aates. Actually since I am English much the same as most people on here I will save you the shrimps and barbies.

I have a coolant problem - I have read many of the notes and warnings about avoiding the pink OAT coolant in the UK. Downunder we have a different set of options and none of them are the blue IAT coolants recommended. Here's what we have, are any of you good enough at Chemistry to tell me which one is the right one?

The two most commonly available brands are Nulon and Penrite. Evans waterless coolant is also available, but at $180 to flush and $180 to fill... I think I will leave that one alone.

Looking at the Penrite range, almost all of them are Ethylene Glycol based, but varying types of OAT...

1. Purple OEM Ethylene glycol based with PSi-OAT (Phosphate and Silicate Organic Acid Technology)
2. Red OEM Ethylene glycol based with Si-OAT (Organic Acid Technology) based inhibitor system that is Phosphate, Amine, Borate and Nitrite free.
3. Green OEM Ethylene glycol based with HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) based inhibitor system that is Phosphate, Amine and Nitrite free.
4. Blue OEM Ethylene glycol based with OAT (Organic Acid Technology) based inhibitor system that is Silicate, Phosphate, Amine, Borate and Nitrite free.
5. Green 350,000km Ethylene glycol based with HYBRID (HOAT - Hybrid Organic Acid Technology).
6. 10 Tenths Race Coolant which seems to be non-glycol based.
7. Classic Car Coolant hybrid-organic, non-glycol based, corrosion inhibitor concentrate designed specifically for use in veteran, Edwardian, vintage and classic car cooling systems.

So which one? Presumably not the OAT so is that the HOAT?

Penrite offer a few FAQs, notably: "All our coolants are suitable with cast iron, aluminium, copper and solder alloy. Our coolants are also suitable with hoses, seals and plastics used in different cooling systems."

[BarryDalHerbert]

I am not a chemist. I have been to a chemist recently though (if that qualifies).

Penrite are an Australian company, so they are likely to be a more reliable source of products than most for the conditions in our wide brown land.

If you were to go to this web site:
https://www.datateck.com.au/Lube/PenriteAus/

Follow the bouncing ball:
[attachment=0]Penrite.png[/attachment]

And then scroll down the page you will find that their RADIATOR recommendation is:
GREEN OEM COOLANT (either CONCENTRATE or PREMIX)
“A genuine Glysantin G48, OEM approved, Type A Hybrid, green coloured long life coolant”.

Now that bit in quotes is just blah-blah-blah to me, so I am only offering the information, not endorsing anything!

BdH
Tuross Head NSW
23-Jun-21 15:27

[Rambo]

As an ex chemist I wouldn't use anything other than blue or green ethylene glycol antifreeze in our Isuzu engines

Do not use anything with the words OAT or silicates in the descriptor. However, OAT (pink) anti freeze can be used in more modern engines than ours and is usually the current, go to choice for new cars

And for info, EG and OAT are incompatible and can cause to go like jelly (thixotropic) if mixed.

[378S2]

Hi Rambo,

You could be just the person to help me then… of the options above (noting we have a different colour scheme down under) which would you recommend please? Is the Green OEM with whatever-the-hell Hybrid-OAT is ok per Penrite's recommendation?

Thanks
George

[Rambo]

Personally, I would suggest going with Barry's recommendation if he uses that make and brand successfully and without problems in his engine

From your list I would only consider 3, 4 and 5, but only after checking with the manufacturer as I don't like seeing ethylene glycol and OAT in the same sentence, for obvious reasons. I would ask them for their personal recommendation for an early '90's Isuzu lump

Surely you must be able to source pure ethylene glycol down under ?

[dapinky]

Surely you must be able to source pure ethylene glycol down under ?

Mark,

Maybe you are falling into the same trap I did when conversing with George on this matter (on Facebook)... We 'agreed' that simple blue E-G was best.... but then found that it doesn't seem to exist in Oztraylia.....

... I did some research and found that the 'colours' resulted in compliance with British Standards, and for some reason best known to the belligerent ex-convicts, they have a completely different system of colours (and contents of the stuff).

Then I thought about it, and realised (as I was told by George) that they don't actually need "antifreeze" generally - but do need "coolant" and "anti-corrosion inhibitors".... Perth has never seen a temperature of 0 Celsius apparently!

So, maybe they decided that there was no reason to produce a pure E-G "antifreeze" when other stuff suits the climate much better......

.... that was the point I admitted some defeat, as despite looking at all the spec sheets, I couldn't give definitive advice on what colour was suitable. I (sort of) agreed that "Green" looked the best suited (as it is HOAT, not OAT - so shouldn't 'gel') - and this appears to be the recommendation of Penrite.

BUT

I am no chemist, and don't want to give a recommendation based purely on a random colour (and 'belief' that it contains the same stuff I use).

[378S2]

Now now, we’re not all belligerent ex-convicts, some of us are belligerent ex prison guards!

Well I thought I’d cracked it, because wandering around the shop today I noticed they all had denatonium benzoate in them at the same concentration and only the %content of EG varied. However… Wikipedia tells me that denatonium benzoate is the most bitter substance in existence - clearly there to stop people and animals drinking it. Which can only be a good thing.

Ok, so the green stuff it is then. Thanks Barry, Mark and Dave for the help. And Barry thanks for that link - very useful.

[Rambo]

Yes, it's nasty stuff. Typically it is referred to as Bitrex over here. The FDA (US Food and Drugs Administration) approved its use as an alcohol denaturant and it is typically used in ppm/ppb levels in toiletries, ethanol based hand sanitisers (very popular since CV-19) household goods, garden and automotive products

It is indeed the most bitter of substances. A little goes a very, very long way !! If you don't believe me, just lick the end of your fingers after filling your header tank (although it's always best to wear rubber gloves) And always wash your hands before preparing or consuming food for obvious reasons !!

PS back in the 70's when I was a Uni. undergrad. In Edinburgh this substance was widely used to prevent the tramps and alkies in the Grassmarket drinking meths (methylated spirits) and other such alcoholic beverages. Ironically it's bitter taste was first discovered by Macfarlan Smith of Edinburgh (manufacturer of fine chemicals and alkaloids) only a mile or two away from those Grassmarket alkies