Engine oil - best compomise

[Richmmm]

Following my turbo refurbishment, I am having the oil and filter changed.

My garage has asked which oil to use - What is the best compromise between performance and price now (2023)?

Rich

[FunElan]

The answer varies wildly based on the time of year (climate) and your budget. I currently run Mobil1, but next oil change will likely switch to Motul: https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products ... ies-10w-30

Not sure of availability in the UK. LiquiMoly is very high quality as well.

[chrism]

Aw everyone has an opinion - and they're always right about their pride + joy. - It's a bit of a 'can-of-worms' that you've opened

For me 3.5l of 10W/30 seems the target oil-change. I feel semi-synth is okay cos we drive them carefully, possibly under 5 000mls a year and we change oil + filter every year, don't we?

A 4l pack suffices so I tend to use a 4l pack of 10W/40 Magnatech A3/B4. It's a quality 'synthetic technology' (but not fully synth), it's 'close enough' and slightly thicker enough to minimise cold tappet tick.

I tend to buy oil and filters (and front discs + pads if they're not on my shelf) when there are seasonal 'deals' and shelve them for later use to get best v-f-m.

I dare say others will comment with their own routines, eg those that enjoy revving and tracking their cars will swear by thinner, more racy, more expensive, fully-synthetic stuff.

If I was 'on the turbo' a lot I think I'd look for a 10W/30 or even the popular 5W/30 fully synthetic grade - which'll start to get 'pricey' as they seem to mostly be sold in 5l packs - and the 2 x 2l option isn't always such good v-f-m.

10W/40 Magnatech A3/B4 suits my own less-frantic driving style. It'll be interesting to see other opinions...(I think there might be some on WikiLEC?)

[dapinky]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (because this question comes up regularly, and I accept that things change, new oils come along, old oils disappear etc etc) - it all depends on your own car, and how you use it..... BUT.... it may not really matter!

Ok, the last bit is very tongue-in-cheek, but let me expand.

Over the years I have tried all sorts, (in Elans and my other cars) and have come to the conclusion that modern oil is bloody good. Clearly, there is a difference between Castrol GTX 20w50 dinosaur juice (which is the only oil I'll ever put in my Triumph), and some super-slick synthetic mixture which meets the very latest specification for use in a Bugatti Veyron.

The Elan is old enough not to have an engine which needs oil with specific additives (unlike my VW, Corsa and any other 'modern' car on the road - all of which seem to use 5w30, but all have different stuff in them)....

.... so really, we only have to worry about the viscosity (anything for sale these days will meed the ASCI specifications stipulated in the handbook).

Also, we don't (well, some do, but mainly we don't) use the cars for daily driving all year round. Most of us live in the UK so don't have to worry about different temperature variations that fall into the "need separate oil for Winter & Summer" worry.

We probably do far less miles between oil changes than the oil will do - again, using my other cars for comparison, the VW 'could' go 20K between oil changes, and the Corsa, 10K......

However, I change the oil in the VW at 10K, and the Corsa at 6K (that is what I have set the display to remind me).

The Elan does nothing like that sort of mileage between changes - which is done every year (I actually missed out a change 2 or 3 years ago as it had only been 300 miles with fully-synthetic oil in it).

So, using Dino juice, semi-synthetic, part-synthetic or fully synthetic doesn't matter at all (*there are exceptions)

With age/technology comes wear (both in owner and car!) - my Elan with 140K on the clock is going to have more engine wear than my Elan with 75K on the clock - and both will have more wear than the Corsa with 90K on it.

I was getting very low oil pressure when hot when I used 5w30 synthetic oil, so I went a to a thicker oil, and tried 10w40 Semi-synthetic..... it was better..... next time I went for 10w60 and have been on that for the past few changes.

I get much better oil pressure, in fact it is higher than I would like when cold, and it takes a really good run to get it down to where i like it.... so I've just bought some 5w40 for the next change, as that seems to be what my particular car likes.

I use Fuchs Titan supersyn, which is currently £27 for 5L at Opie because it is "more than good enough" for my use.

That said, I have heard good things about Mannol oil (not that widely known in the UK) and will be trying some of that in various grades in the new car until i find what it likes as it is a bit cheaper than the Fuchs.

I won't pay the price premium for either Mobil or Castrol as I think they cash in on the name..... but at the same time I avoid the 'unbranded/self-branded' stuff at the very cheap end....... although if they meet the specs, they would be good enough, I'm sure.

* I mentioned exceptions - but if these apply, you would already know what I'm saying!

If you have a modified engine (more than just something like a chip and exhaust - I'm talking turbo changes and huge injectors on a Haltech ECU) then you will be using something a bit special, still in the same viscosity ranges, but only fully-synthetic.

If you race (or regularly track) your car, you will want to be sure that your oil is right for the temperatures the engine is running at, and kept fresh enough to stay at that specification all the time.

Bottom line - 5w30 is a good start........ 5w40 may be worth a try in a slightly worn engine.......10w40 *may* be the perfect viscosity, but is rarely found in fully-synthetic so you have to have semi-synthetic........ 10w60 will give good oil pressure on high mileage/hard used engines.

After that, go for a known make, don't worry about paying for the latest technology or biggest name, change it (and the filter) before it needs it!

[Tuga2112]

although my approach is probably on the extreme side of the spectrum and certainly what most would steer away from.

I put the cheapest fully syntetic 5-30 i can find in bulk order (that means 20 liter containers), i simply follow the principle that whatever comes out of a refinery today. is going to be higher spec than the best stuff that was made in a refinery 34 years ago.
I run my car as close to the description of "daily" as you can under my circumstances (only go to the office once a week.. but that day, is 8 times out of 10 an elan Drive) but i dont push my car hard. i just accept that maybe one day if im wrong in thise decision. the whole engine will be rebuild.... however, unlike many. i am not afraid of that day. I just need to be sure to buy the parts before that day arrives.

[chrism]

So, nothing 'exotic' then - although I expect you'd feel obliged to put these brands in the later Lotus-megabucks-supercar models.

ie 5W/30 synth for fast -> 10W/40 semi-synth for low use, changed yearly. I think Tuga's idea of avoiding the 'names' is good and v-f-m 20l bulk buys suit his expanding projects, but some people swear that the main brands are 'better' due to essential additives - which didn't seem to be so important in the 90's (except 'magic' Mobil1 designed for Concorde - so, obviously suitable for Lotus - and MXV tyres that were really fast and special...)

Personally I'll keep an eye out for good v-f-m 10W/40 synth in 4l packs at sale times but 10W/40 'synth tech' Magnatech A3/B4 seems to deliver the goods (and v-f-m) for me.

And mid-range tyres like Falken, Khumo, Nankang etc (off the track) will be just fine for my bumpy local roads I reckon ; yet another hotly-debated issue!

[Saltire]

And mid-range tyres like Falken, Khumo, Nankang etc (off the track) will be just fine for my bumpy local roads I reckon ; yet another hotly-debated issue!

Chris, FWIW, on my bumpy local roads (my potholes are worse than your potholes ) I use Avon ZV-7s on the S2, which I find a good compromise between ride, handling and wear.

[chrism]

Hmmm, thanks...haven't seen these before. They seem really good v-f-m.

[Tuga2112]

i know we are heading a bit with Tyre discussion. however my 2 cents is that i have no desire to get bigger rims. and i run 55 profile instead of 50 on my 15inch wheels in order to give the wheel an extra 5mm of cushioning when hitting potholes.

mind you. Roads in and around Durham are not anywhere near as bad as most other places i lived in the country.

[dapinky]

Don't worry about it, Joao - we all like a good "thread hi-jack"

I use Avon ZV-7s on the S2, which I find a good compromise between ride, handling and wear.

I know Clemo uses Avons tyres on his, and seems happy enough.....

.... but for us lowly SE owners, it is a problem as they don't do ZV7's in 205/50r15 size.

In fact, finding this size tyre seems to get a little bit more difficult with every passing year. There are always plenty of 'budget' tyres about, and a few 'top end' ones, but the middle ground is fast disappearing.

I will be needing some for Angies car at some stage, and she wouldn't get the benefit of the Yokohama 008's that I use (but can't get anymore).... they have just brought out a new range (Advan HF Type-D A008S, and I'm waiting on some information/reviews for them to see if they are better than the A008RS that they bought out to so-say replace the AD08R that I love

So, I currently have Toyo Proxes on it, with excellent tread, but they have been sitting static for too many years for me to want to use them in any serious way (okay for shunting round the garage, and short 'road tests', but not for long-term use)

I see they are now about £62 at Camskill, and in the same price range they have Kumho for a couple of quid cheaper, and Falken for £20 quid more...... but then it's only a short financial jump to Yokohama V701 at £95 a corner.......

BUT.....

..... down at the "bottom end" of the prices, amongst all the makes that I have never had any direct experience of, I see that I can get Accelera Phi tyres for just £38 each!

Now, I have used these on my VW van (so completely different sort of thing to an Elan, I know!), and I rate them quite highly. I don't foresee the Elan doing over a ton as a regular occurrence, or ever seeing a track, so maybe I'm over thinking things, and should just go for 'cheap & cheerful' with the expectation that they will get changed well before they wear out, due to age not use...... and at that price, I am not throwing away great sums of money?????

Okay, so realistically, the Accelera tyres are an "XL" tyre, so have stiffer sidewalls to support a heavier car - so I don't know if that is good or bad on an Elan? - but certainly worth thinking about for someone on a budget who doesn't trust their current rubber.

Oh, okay, we all know that whatever prevarication happens, Pinky will always be running on some sort of Yokes - and at the moment, V701's are looking like the "best" option for my next purchase.

[roy666]

Just getting back on topic. Dave.. found your very informative comments v interesting. I wonder how many of us use their cars as a daily (we should take a straw poll). I do, for work and for leisure (mainly long trips abroad at least once a year), and have been since my first M100 in 96… sold that with 180K miles on it. I’m at 170K miles with my latest M100 and have been using Millers Oils 10/40 semi-synthetic, and I change the oil every 4-5K miles; perhaps a bit OTT.. but its probably best to pamper these old engines.

[chrism]

Roy + Tuga (+ possibly others). Please, there's no need to be shy about straying off-topic. It's gotta be good to share v-f-m solutions if the thread progresses that way.

Being 'Lotus' seems to attract a premium as we're all too often finding out, literally to our cost!

Yep roy666 4-5k mile oil change, or yearly, works for me. New filter (every other change?) too...

[Tuga2112]

So, nothing 'exotic' then - although I expect you'd feel obliged to put these brands in the later Lotus-megabucks-supercar models.

wish i could justify one of those.. ... i would love to completely restore a S4 esprit (or turbo) but even a barn find price tag is outside my "financial comfort zone"

but some people swear that the main brands are 'better' due to essential additives - which didn't seem to be so important in the 90's

i know this is a lot of conjecture. but i have a belief that "brand placebo" is what makes a difference when it comes to those claims.... i would expect the claims to be widespread and shared knowledge if the differences were noticeable

a good example of that is E10 vs E5 petrol.... as far as performance, neither my elan, celica or 4runner has any difference in accelaration that is noticeable. HOWEVER out of the 3, i can clerly notice a diffence in engine sound of the celica... it runs quieter with 99ron E5 from Tesco than anything else i tried (including other variations of E5)

And mid-range tyres like Falken, Khumo, Nankang etc (off the track) will be just fine for my bumpy local roads I reckon ; yet another hotly-debated issue!

only thing i didnt mention about tires was the brands.
ive used both toyos proxes t1r (i believe that model is now discontinued) and toyos proxes CF2 although both sets in different cars. (T1R on elan and CF2 on celica) i would not recommend T1R for winter driving, while the CF2 seem not only to grip better in the wet, but also wear slower (relatively speaking, when taking into account they are installed in a AWD car with 90 BHP more than the Elan)

[Fredjohn]

Staying briefly off topic, the Toyo Proxes T1R has indeed been replaced........by the TR1.
Totally different tread pattern and no longer directional.

Fitted some last week to mine, £140 a pair.

[chrism]

Not a problem Fredjohn. Another worthy v-f-m option. That TR1 tread certainly seems more 'conventional' and your cost really attractive

It's a shame that such significant solutions can't be more centrally-accessed in our forum since useful pearls of wisdom have developed via an engine oil request (thanks Richmmm) from a professional garage outlet. And I'm sure Rich, certainly like myself, has appreciated the wise input from this thread; and hopefully, perhaps, any further revelation.

[Saltire]

It's a shame that such significant solutions can't be more centrally-accessed in our forum since useful pearls of wisdom have developed via an engine oil request (thanks Richmmm) from a professional garage outlet. And I'm sure Rich, certainly like myself, has appreciated the wise input from this thread; and hopefully, perhaps, any further revelation.

Chris

My comment below is in no way intended to impugn the efforts of those who originally set up our excellent forum, nor those who give freely of their time to maintain and administer it today. They do - and have done - a fantastic job and we have all benefited hugely as a result. I am also a relative newcomer to the site, and I don’t know the full story . . .

However . . .

I agree with you that aspects of the forum - and LEC site in general - are a bit frustrating in use. I’m not party to the full history, and others will no doubt comment, but my understanding is that the site was designed 20 years or so ago - or prehistory in IT terms.

Some or all of those who originally put it together are no longer active members, I believe there has been at least one major update during which material went astray, and I also understand that there are administrative functions which are lost to us because the present administrators do not have the correct privileges to access them. If I have misunderstood any of this, I humbly apologise to those concerned

Based on 40+ years of IT experience, it seems to me there would be no fundamental technical issue in building an up-to-date version of the forum and re-invigorating the Wiki, which was always meant to be the repository of helpful information like “What’s the best oil?”. I’d use the latest incarnation of one of the leading tools (the site currently runs on phpBB; I might choose MyBB for its slightly more contemporary user interface, but it doesn’t matter).

I guess the fundamental issues are:

- we need folks who would volunteer to build it
- we may need to make some kind of a formal contribution to the hosting cost
- we need to decide ‘what good looks like’ in terms of functions and features (although getting a few hundred active members to agree on that might be interesting!
- we need to build it (or have it built)
- we need to transfer the information from the current site to the new one
- we need to maintain it (or have it maintained)

I also think we’d need to be careful that by coming up with a shiny new site we didn’t lose the essential ethos of LEC, which is fundamentally that of a bunch of folks helping out their mates. It would be beyond sad if that disappeared.

So, in summary, it would be fun to do it (and I’d certainly be up for helping), but it would need consent from those in high places, commitment from a subset of members, and coherent design to avoid some of today’s idiosyncrasies. I’d be interested in other views.

Now we are well and truly and I fully expect the Moderator Police to come along and rap me firmly over the knuckles - or at least create a new thread well away from the important stuff.

[chrism]

Saltire, thanks. Those are wise words and I'm a little ashamed for being so 'demanding'.

As it it stands (and I've said it before) LEC is a site that keeps giving and has certainly been an inspiration to me...

(Yup I'm expecting a rap on the door followed by one on the head from the MP for being so outspoken - but it was fun )

[dapinky]

Putting my "Admin" hat on, and trying to address Johnathans post.....

...It is certainly off-bloody-topic

Anyway, I don't care about that, so I'll try and put a short (unusual for me) post.

As you say, LEC itself started off as a 'normal' Website of it's time, 30 odd years ago when Doug set up a forum for like-minded owners - bearing in mind that the car was current at that time, so it probably started off with owners/drivers who wanted to get the best from the car in daily use - and gradually changed to blokes like me (us?) who have an old car we want to keep going, and use when we can.

Anyway, after a while, the software for forums (forii?) progressed and the old "Bulletin Board" style was changed to php.BB - and the old forum was archived (it can still be accessed if you know where to look, and have the desire, but is not the sort of thing that I would want/need to refer to).

At the same time, the gurus who set it up (Terry & Liz) wrote the whole website which still exists today - and is still in "old" language, having been created in the days when it was all codework, and no WYSIWYG systems - it is written in html, and although I have updated some of the old code, I don't really understand html like a professional, and it takes me a while to even fire up my laptop with Adobe Dreamweaver on it!

Anyway, as we all know, technology has moved on just a tad over the past 25 years, and I have been moaning about the fact that the forum (and the base website) are not at all 'mobile friendly' - not surprisingly, as they were designed and built well before anyone dreamed of such a thing as a smart phone.

Back in the day, everyone used either a Desktop or Laptop to access the site, and it works fine on those platforms - these days, everyone has a smartphone and it is the 'go-to' option for many (not me, because my fingers are like sausages, and my eyesight is typical for a person of my age!) - especially when you want to upload a picture/video or ask a quick question.....

.... as a result, more 'urgent' stuff tends to appear on Facebook before the main forum - but the downside of that is that information quickly gets buried, and it isn't so easy to search through archived stuff - and that is before we even get into "who owns the information, and how much control does the author actually have?"

Anyway, a few years ago I started to build a completely new website using Wordpress, and got as far as having a working version which i hosted on a "free hosting" server just to see how it would work - and it was fine - easy to maintain, easy to add to, easy for anyone to upload articles, pictures, videos etc etc - everything that "we" wanted.

The problem came with the forum software - I simply couldn't find any way to transfer all of the information currently held onto a "new" platform that could then be added to.

Obviously, setting up a new forum was/is straightforward - but it would mean everyone who currently uses the system to set up a new account (not a huge issue, per see, but not as simple as a straight migration. It would have the advantage of "only" having people here who want to continue to be here - but I'm sure we'd loose some good people along the way.

More of an issue was loosing all the great information which is still referred to on a regular basis. I know it could be archived - but what about the 'ongoing' threads like projects, questions etc etc??? Again, I suppose it *could* be manually copied and pasted, but it isn't going to be quick and easy to do that.

The website I built cannot really go live where it is, due to bandwidth restrictions on a free hosting site, so it would need transposing to our current server - not a problem in itself - but I don't have the access level to set up a new folder/database on the server.... and trying to find someone who does, who has the time, wasn't easy (so I gave up at that time).

In an ideal world, I would be given the access and do it in my own time - but that won't happed as Lotus won't give me server access at a level where I could really bugger up their whole company system, just to do what i wish.... so it will need access from someone to set up the basic folder structure so i can only get to "our" bit, and then install Wordpress, then build the site.... easy enough, but not always quick. It is hoped that once set up, front-end access will be available to a few Admins so no further access to the server is required (until it explodes!), and any member (with suitable approval levels) will be able to add to it in writing, pictures, videos or whatever.......

...... which brings us back to who will Admin it? Lotus won't want unrestricted content on their server (quite rightly).... so are we better just paying for a Commercial Webspace????

BUT

None of those thoughts matter if we can't easily migrate the current Forum.

Okay, there may be a suitable software app which can do it - and if anyone knows of such, just shout up and I'll look at it - after that, it is a simple matter to decide where it is hosted, what the costs may be, and so on.

Currently, the whole ethos is that we are a completely free resource - and I'd rather not change to a 'paid' membership system, as that has all sorts of business interest complications - and someone will have to be responsible for it all. We are currently funded by individuals making donations, others adding a couple of quid onto Group Buys and throwing the excess in the kitty, and having a collection tin under the counter at any major events we attend - it isn't a huge surplus of cash - but we have no great expenses either..... would people want that to change? Can we really justify an ongoing hosting expense? Who will do all the Admin?

Bottom line - if anyone knows how we can migrate to a 'current' system (mobile friendly) then i will look at it, and if it costs us money, then we'll have to see if we can fund it, or what we need to do so that we can. Hopefully maintain the current membership, but not an absolute necessity. After that, I'll need a few suitable volunteers to do any work, but first we need a suitable platform.

[RonR]

Hi Dave,

That was a short post???

Last time I looked LEC was hosted by Bibs & co on the TLF servers rather than by Lotus themselves (unless TLF have sold out to Lotus).
How do I know? When I'm not tinkering with M100 stuff I manage the web site for NKLG, which is hosted on the same infrastructure as LEC.
It might be worth asking Bibs to let you have a new test VM with Wordpress installed, maybe with the name test.lotuselancentral.com? That way you could have full admin rights over the Wordpress installation without impacting the main LEC site.
NKLG has a similar set-up, but with 2 Wordpress instances on the same VM.

My expertise is mainly on the Network side of things, but I'd be willing to roll my sleeves up with what free time I can spare.

[dapinky]

Ron, you are correct. We have part of the TLF server space....... it is "allegedly" completely separate to the Lotus system, albeit that the machinery is (or at least, was) in the same room.

I have previously asked Bibs to give me access to either an empty folder and database to install and run a WP site, or to install WP and let me customise it, but at that time he had other things to do.... and as I said, without the ability to port the actual Forum, it became a somewhat redundant priority, and soon got forgotten about.

Not many people ever access the LEC website (many probably don't even know of its existence) and it is all a bit superfluous nowadays.

I got round the main reason for wanting access by hosting the Manuals and other 'useful' stuff on a free hosting Wix site, which is sufficient for it's purpose, despite its size and bandwidth limits, as it doesn't get enough daily traffic to worry it.....

..... it is a really simple and intuitive WYSIWYG interface that I use for a lot of people who want a quick and easy website (they usually want "Free" as the main priority!). The only reason I wouldn't use it for a full LEC website is because it is on a Commercial Server, and "we" like to stay with the company we currently keep.

There are so many decent WP themes and addins these days that it isn't even necessary to understand css code (although it can make some things easier to fully customise).