Possible Water Problem

[Elanlover]

Hi folks, just wanted to pick people's brains on a little issue I've noticed. First off, the car is bundled up for its winter slumber in the garage but I'm starting it once a week and letting it run for about 30 minutes. When I started doing this, I initially had a problem starting the car which was solved with a new battery as the old one was pretty weak (it WAS the original afterall). However, I was, and still am, having a hard time starting the car.

It doesn't seem to want to turn over and takes several attempts befroe ti starts to run. It just won't catch and I have to "help" it along with a touch of gas to get it to start and stay running. Once its going, its fine. But, what I've noticed is a bit of water, slowly becoming and inverted icicle, gathering under the tail pipe. Its not a huge amount or water. After starting and running the car over the last 4 weekends there's about half a cup in total on the floor. Looks pretty clear to me as well. Since its clear and frozen, I'm thinking its not antifreeze/coolant coming through the head but who knows?

Would this amount of water be consdiered normal or do I have something to worry about? Especially since the car doesn't like to be started in the cold. Thanks!

[Doug]

how do you know it's not just condensation after you run it that forms in the exhaust track?

if you need to catch the drips and see if it is the same color, smell, and taste of the coolant in your car -- crazy but your nose and tongue will tell you

how many mile you have on that old dog now?

[Elanlover]

Hey there Doug! It could very well be condensation. That was my first thought. Every car discharges a small amount of water as a by product of the combustion process. And this is a very small amount I would think. And, since its now forzen on my garage floor, I figured it wasn't likely to be coolant/antifreeze. But, with the car being so hard to start i couldn't help but wonder if, now that its cold, somehow there's contractoin going on and the gaskets have shrunk so a bit of water is leaking in. All supposition on my part though.

Can't say i'm thrilled with the idea of tasting that swill. I'll try a smell or two next time though. Gee, after a grand total of 3,500 miles on this car maybe I need some serious servicing

Any thoughts on why its so hard to start in the cold? I recall my first Elan seemed hard to start in the cold as well. For all that cold weather testing Lotus supposedly did you'd think the damn thing would fire up just dandy on a cold morning

[GeoffSmith]

I would imagine it's just condensates, but if it is coolant, then you want to check your antifreeze level pdq as that could be the next to freeze.

Personally, I think it's aliens. I witnessed a similar visitation many years ago one Easter in the Cheviots (foothills of Scotland). It was so cold, we had to drink all the whisky in the pub just to keep warm and the next morning, just in fron of the door of each of the three tents were three frozen, but perfectly formed cones of what appeared to be a strange, straw coloured liquid which had a most peculiar taste apparently. Sure you haven't got a cat sleeping there after you've warmed the car up?

[Paul.P]

Elanlover, not sure if its true, but thought i read somewhere that for every gallon of fuel a car uses, it produces a gallon of water ?

[RatHead]

I'm not sure if it does ther car any good starting it up anyway if youre not going to take it out. It needs a good run to dry things (eg the exhaust) out - which probably explains why you have trouble starting it. I dont think it will have any benefit over leaving it unstarted the whole winter and then jump starting it or whatever once the summer comes. Best thing is to make sure you take it for a run once you get a dry day even if it is cold.

[Doug]

Blair, if you have ElanScan you can check the sensors and be sure they are in the proper ranges during COLD start up. Perhaps the CTS is off a bit? (unlikely but possible). Also are you turning the key to the first stop and allowing the fuel pump and the TPS to do their thing before you start it when cold??!!

[Elanlover]

Rathead, I've been told two stories on that. Starting is good for the car, starting makes no difference. having stored cars befreo over the winter I'm of the opinion that runnign the engine to let it warm up and circulate the juices so to speak is ok. If anything, it ensures the battery gets a full charge and gives me piece of mind that nothing is getting frozen and falling off............ if you know what I mean I'd love to hear from a definitive source, however, if one exists.

Doug, I generally turn the key to the first position for a few seconds before starting. However, in the cold, I'm going to try leaving it there for 10 - 20 seconds next time to see if that helps. Good thought.

[algirdas]

Dear Blair:

I don't think you have any real problems here. First, turn the ignition to the first position to make sure that the fuel rail is properly pressurized. After you get it started, let it run a long, long time. In other words let it get as hot as possible in a Canadian winter. Hot enough to let the fans cycle.

Second, you need to let it run long enough to get out of cold start mode. If you kill the car while it is running super rich, it will be harder to start it later. Plus, some of that excess fuel will make its way down past the rings into the oil and dilute it.

Third, if you have not done so already, dump a 22 oz. bottle of Techron into the fuel tank. In the winter you need clean injectors to have a fighting chance of atomizing a super rich mixture and keep it hanging in the air as it runs down an ice cold runner.

Fourth, the water coming out of the tailpipe should be no big deal. Its a byproduct of the combustion process and not coming from your cooling jackets. If you had a problem there, the compression gases would be pressurizing the cooling jackets and you would find coolant coming out of the overflow tank and plenty of places other than the tailpipe. Plus, if you had coolant migrating into the cylinders you would have a sick smelling steam coming out of the tailpipe and it would be noticeable. I also remember reading something about the catalytic converter heating up the exhaust gases and that as soon as they hit the cold tailpipe, the water vapor falls out of the exhaust stream.

Have you considered letting the old girl sleep? Keep her on a battery tender, dump in some Techron come spring, prime the engine with a pre-oiler and hit the starter key when you can't see your breath.

That is what I am doing and we are having a Canadian winter down here.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[DaveT]

A small dribble is nothing to worry about- remember! "no matter how much you shake your peg, the last little drip always falls down your leg!!!

A sign of advancing years maybe?

Seriously concerned about the icicle tho.

[dans]

Will a battery charge if the car is stationary? I always thought that the load on the battery at idle meant that you wouldn't put much net charge into it?

I dunno though???!!!???

[Elanlover]

Algirdas, I generally let the car run for about 30 minutes. The fans do cycle at least once in that period even in this cold snap we're currently having. Was going to wait until spring to dump some injector cleaner in then chnage the oil. But, sicne the car's not really going anywhere, I could put some in now and then change the oil in the spring I suppose. Your comments on the coolant are what I was hoping people smarter than I would confirm. Not sure about just leaving the car over the winter though. As i mentioned above, I heard two things on that. Is ther any real good info on whether its better to leave the car or start it regularly? i suppose one could argue that repeated starting in the cold, with the oil a bit sluggish, might increase wear but then again, are we all starting our "other" cars in the winter on a daily basis???

Dans, the battery is definitely charging as I can see from the voltmeter and the fact that, on subsequent starts, the battery is always fresh and up to the challenge.

[Elanlover]

Googling winter car storage reveals a few sites with some good winter tips. Here's a few:

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/storage.html

http://www.techguys.ca/howto/winter.html

http://www.musclecarclub.com/library/show/storage.shtml


Some good tips here. Many seem to advocate the "no-start" policy for winter stored cars too.

[muley]

Will a battery charge if the car is stationary? I always thought that the load on the battery at idle meant that you wouldn't put much net charge into it?

I dunno though???!!!???

The battery should charge with the car at idle. I remember the old days when a car with a dynamo would not charge at idle ... but an alternator should be charging OK


Jim B