Safety

[andpap]

Are other owners concerned about driving a car with no airbag or other modern safety features that are not fitted or built-in to their cars?
I have upgraded the brakes with the PNM caliper kit which has hugely increased my confidence in stopping ability but just wondered on other people's options on the safety issue?

[tigerdog]

The US/Fed cars do have airbags but I'm frankly more concerned about having 24-year-old explosives aimed at my face than I am about lack of safety. Truth is, I'm more worried knowing if my car gets pranged in a collision, it will be difficult-to-impossible to fix due to lack of parts and GRP fagility.

[andpap]

Agree that repairs are another concern but do you think the car would "crumple" in a crash in a bad way I mean?

[steve matthews]

Our cars will disintegrate. I will depend more on my ability to remove myself from a
altercation rather than a 25 year old Air Bag. A roll bar will give some rigidity to the
structure but the car is still Plastic.

I'm sure others will disagree, but having been in one collision and seeing the damage

Brakes were the best thing you could have done.

Steve - Fed car

[daveiow]

Yes I have considered the safety aspects and have rationalised the risks thus....
Low mileage/use (1500 miles per annum average)
A general higher level of concentration when driving the Elan
A damn sight safer than riding a motorbike/horse/cycle /going jogging or any other activity involving roads today
Can remember driving ageing rust buckets with no seat belts/crumple zones let alone air bags

The Elan is my hobby and the pleasure it provides far exceeds the marginally raised risks involved
David

[epipete]

Yes I have considered the safety aspects and have rationalised the risks thus....
Low mileage/use (1500 miles per annum average)
A general higher level of concentration when driving the Elan
A damn sight safer than riding a motorbike/horse/cycle /going jogging or any other activity involving roads today
Can remember driving ageing rust buckets with no seat belts/crumple zones let alone air bags

The Elan is my hobby and the pleasure it provides far exceeds the marginally raised risks involved
David

At the risk of sounding flippant if safety was an overriding concern Id have bought a Volvo.

[rip]

Are other owners concerned about driving a car with no airbag or other modern safety features that are not fitted or built-in to their cars?

I assume you have another car with an airbag? Are you sure it works? If not, the first you'll know is when it fails to work in a collision.
Wheel airbags only reduce whiplash. If the impact is enough to make the front collapse, a balloon filled with compressed air will do little.
Many other car electrics flake out & we notice them, but if your airbag fails & the error light does not get triggered, how would you know?

As Steve points out, the car is basically made of fibreglass. Ok, so it has steel outriggers, but these are not as tough in a collision as a steel body.
No car is 100% safe. It will be built to withstand several different 'standard' crash tests, but real collisions are often from different angles which are not so strong.

lol @ Pete but he has a point.

[andpap]

Thanks for your replies.
My main concern is not lack of airbag rather the strength of the chassis.
How would it compare to a non-fibreglass body on impact?
But as has been said, safer on the road than motorbike etc.
More thinking of winter driving when more likely to have accident due to poor light/road conditions.
I would avoid using car if icy or snowing.

[rip]

You may be interested to see Stef's pics from when her 1st Elan got whacked by a Porsche, right in the door
Before you get too alarmed though, it is worth noting the other pics which were not posted in this thread:
The Porsche was completely annihilated behind the rear wheels, but I suppose it would do because it has no crash structure there.
I'm not sure if it is mentioned in the thread, but Stef was so worried by the way her Elan collapsed that she bought another to replace it.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21661&hilit=news+i+hoped+never+to+post

[lotusflasherman]

Agree that repairs are another concern but do you think the car would "crumple" in a crash in a bad way I mean?

No worries here!
As long as you stop the chassis from rusting an Elan will be a far stronger 20 year old vehicle than any car made of steel that rusts unseen internally. The Elan is a very solid structure - and I have found that out by the experience of 'writing one off'. I was in a '91 SE in '99 so an 8 year old car but the strength of grp does not deteriorate significantly with age so have no worries about strength of Elan for a collision but inverting one would be my main worry.

I was on a dead straight section of open road in the Cambridge fens about to drive past a white van in a laybay when the driver, talking on his mobile phone, pulled out to do a U turn, but steering one handed he didn't complete the manoeuvre but just blocked the road. I considered using the grass verge but it had a slope down to a dyke running parallel to the road and I didn't fancy a swim or going anywhere that may flip the car so stayed on the black stuff and braked as hard as I could before I 'T boned' the van. OE brakes worked fine as I was leaving 4 light grey tyre tracks on the road, not skid marks as I didn't lock them - and 'yes', the rears worked too, but I got towards the middle of the road where loose chippings had accumulated and it was like 'being on the marbles' and suddenly I stopped stopping so tried cadence braking but ... BIG BANG and I punted the van about 20 metres down the road sideways... probably a +40mph impact.

I got out of my car and went to assist the white-van-man who had smacked his head against the B pillar & driver's window with his phone against his right ear and had a Nokia keyboard imprinted on his right cheekbone. He wasn't feeling too good as he hadn't seen me so didn't brace himself at all. His van was banana shaped. Gave him First Aid & phoned for ambulance & police.

The Elan had absorbed the impact mainly in the N\S longeron, and partly in the O\S longeron but the N\S longeron had also tweaked the main chassis to shift the N\S suspension turret significantly back so the tyre was jammed against the back of the wheelarch. The driver's door opened with creaking for me to get out but the passenger door was jammed solid with no gaps and had obviously played it's part in the energy absorption process. I don't remember the seat belt having to restrain me but I had bent the steering wheel slightly. Some grp panels had cracked but there was still a lot of stored energy in the bent grp and abs proving it is a very effective energy absorbing material. (Might be worth considering what crash helmets are made from before we panic about 'plastic cars'.)

[attachment=0]scan0008.jpg[/attachment

[attachment=0]scan0007.jpg[/attachment

Sorry about quality of pictures - those are scans of early Kodak digital camera shots that were printed on plain paper - but at least they show that our cars do not disintegrate.

[andpap]

Thanks for sharing your story with us.
I will definitely feel more confident driving my car now

[DaveT]

I have also had a head on in my old SE. Lived to tell the tale. Estimated speed of impact plus 100mph. No effect on passenger or driver compartment. Passenger did have 3 broken ribs due to seat belt.

[HJ2]

The one thing to keep in mind is never to flip the car

[Elanlover]

The one thing to keep in mind is never to flip the car

Probably can be said for any car.

[rip]

The one thing to keep in mind is never to flip the car

Good advice for anyone planning to do so.
I don't think anyone has ever tried this on purpose though

[HJ2]

Ehrmmm... I can only speak for myself but...

Knowing i don't want to flip this particular car determines a LOT how i drive it and where!
It's everybody for them selves off course

[Ian T]

Ehrmmm... I can only speak for myself but...

Knowing i don't want to flip this particular car determines a LOT how i drive it and where!
It's everybody for them selves off course

You know, when I read this, I thought exactly the same thing. I believe my car is actually still very solid and retains much of its original integrity, but I don't want to put any of that to the test in a crash, although Lotusflasherman's photos indicate that the structure holds together better than I'd have expected. I drive accordingly with my own assessment, but probably very little differently to any other car as I'm naturally a bit risk averse. I have no real confidence in the windscreen frame keeping my head out of the road though and while I've seen some good looking attempts at roll hoops, little confidence that they would prevent more injury than they might cause.

Right side up for me too.

My flippant response to Andypap's initial message was almost, "Sheesh, mine doesn't even have a roof!" I agree though, that decent brakes are probably the best investment any of us could make on safety. Other than a Volvo for daily use.

[nicowalker1]

I find I drive the Elan slower than my dailies (just accelerate quicker) as it is always at the back of my mind. What if...

[lotusflasherman]

Extract from the Official Lotus Factory Sales Traning Manual found here ....gglotus.org/ggtech/m100-lcu-manual/m100lcu.htm

The structural part of the Elan body consists of a large floor molding, which is VARI constructed and is 3mm thick. This molding incorporates the A and B pillars, the rear wheel arches and the trunk pan. The perimeter frame consists of several pieces of 18 gage sheet steel that are formed into a box sections and then bonded and riveted to the floor molding. This creates an outrigger style box frame that stiffens the floor molding, and provides a good mounting point for the chassis, seats and seat belts. The A and B pillars also receive the steel support sections. The A pillars are connected by the bottom member of the windshield frame, and the B pillars are connected by a brace that crosses the car under the convertible top stowage well. This upper frame is finally connected by the door impact beams. The windscreen pillar is cast of high-strength aluminum and bolts directly to the tops of the A-pillars. This assembly is strong enough to support the weight of the car in the event of a roll over.

Yeah, right. Wouldn't want to test it though..

[Dave Eds]

Where does the top of your head come in relation to a line from the top of the windscreen to the boot spoiler? You got it - 200 yards back down the road

Ask Graham (who is said to have been unable to afford cosmetic surgery so went for a high speed roll instead)