increasing performance questions from a boy racer...

[Tuga2112]

Although i wouldnt consider miself a speed addict, My friend has recently commited to "buy" (its actually a 2 year rent) a bmw 235i

I wasnt jealous of the purchase until he told me the 0 - 60 time of that toy is 4.9 seconds, weights 1500km and has over 300bhp.

I was wondering if our elans with some mild modifications have any chanse to go near that kind of 0-60 time ?

my thinking
He is spending 1500 deposit + 300 a month for 2 years for a car = around 8700 in total
Can i put my elan up to the same level of performance (ignoring fuel consuption) with around 1/3 or 1/4 of that investment ?

I Heard from other members that a chip upgrade (everest i believe) brings the boost to 0.98 and around 200bhp, that someone has tuned the car up to 300bhp in the past.

my knowledge is very limited in the performance upgrade topic, but as far as im aware, once the chip is place then usually the next step is the exhaust and porting the wastegate.

does anyone know or has a rough idea of the 0-60 time for a stock elan with a everest chip ?

And before you guys worry about i kill miself with too much power, this is more of a "what if" question in order to make a very rough estimate of costs.
Also, i indend to upgrade the brakes before any kind of performance upgrade.

I would have a BIG laught if i was able to have the elan with equal performance to my friend's car at a total cost that is around half he's expenditure.

[Elanlover]

I don't know if anyone's tested the 0-60 performance of an Elan with an Elysium chip but there are many things you can do to increase the car's performance.

1) bigger bore exhaust (2.25" or 2.5")
2) port the wastegate after the above to eliminate overboost cutoff
3) Elysium chip
4) better cool air intake system

Those are the "standard" things you can do for a small investment overall and it will result in a noticeable improvement in straightline performance. I've done this and more and have "guestimated" my improvements to about 220hp and a 0-60 closer to 5.5 sec. You can search the forum for info on all this.

More elaborate modifications have been done including;

1) new ECU mapping (new ECU involved)
2) higher flow rated injectors
3) Nitros boosting
4) cooling the intercooler with a refrigerant
5) lighter flywheel
6) turbo replacement
.................and others that people will come along and post about.

A brake upgrade is an absolute must when doing these upgrades and a suspension upgrade isn't out of the question either.

[GeoffSmith]

Just do it down a steep hill - record it with ElanScan and show him the (indisputable) results.

[dapinky]

...or with the front wheels jacked up off the ground - 0-60 in about 3 seconds!

[HJ2]

... better remove those front wheels then Dave! That 'll speed things up

[Saltire]

How about one of these kits: http://www.noswizard.com/car-nitrous-ki ... plete.html

and plenty of spare bottles in the boot.

[lotusflasherman]

FYI - quoted 0-60 time for the SE (165bhp) is 6.5 sec and it weighs 1,032kg (2,276lb). 60mph can be 6,640 rpm in 2nd gear so probably only one gear change used for that time.

The problem with trying to turn an Elan into a dragster is the 0 to 10 mph bit - being front wheel drive trying to get it moving requires a delicate right foot and the more power you have, the more of a problem it can be, particularly in the wet. There are simple mods to get a bit more power that are well documented on this site but it's generally accepted that about 100 bhp / driven wheel is the limit if the car is not going to try to bite you in the bum.
I suggest do the simple mods to get a bit more power and if your friend outdrags you down the straight you can enjoy catching him up in the twisty bits - that's what Elans were built for.

When I was looking for my 2nd Elan I went to look at and test drove a boy racer 'hot rod' Elan. Owner claimed it had 250bhp and showed me 'dyno charts'. It had a BBR chip, a (plain) dump valve, an air filter that breathed warm air from the engine compartment , big bore exhaust with little silencing, modified brake discs with holes and slots front & rear, and a Quaife LSD - the bad news was the boot was full of an amplifier and 'a boom box' and it had false floors in the front foot-wells to house huge speakers pointing upwards - at the back of your legs ! It also meant I couldn't get the balls of my feet properly on the pedals but I thought I could rip all that rubbish out in a couple of hours.

Absolute nightmare to drive though. The induction system was incredibly noisy, the dump valve popping and hissing and the exhaust so loud it was probably illegal. Having got used to the strange pedal position I started to use the power and found strange things happening with the steering - sort of torque steer / steering lock on power. Floor the throttle from a standstill and the LSD helped with acceleration 'off the line' but as it got under way there was a strange tugging at the steering which had to be held against or the car would wander off the straight and narrow. Power into a corner and most feel in the steering was lost and powering hard round a roundabout I could release the wheel and the car kept going round - and only self straightened when I lifted off. I thought about increasing castor angle but test drive was in the dry and I reckoned in the wet it would be so nasty that I'd make better progress in a mildly tuned Elan that wasn't trying to get away from me all the time, so walked away from that one.

[theelanman]

Challenge him to some corners.............

I'd say you'd go round them faster

[Tuga2112]

Just do it down a steep hill - record it with ElanScan and show him the (indisputable) results.

...or with the front wheels jacked up off the ground - 0-60 in about 3 seconds!

... better remove those front wheels then Dave! That 'll speed things up

That made me laugh like i havent for a whole week/month.

How about one of these kits: http://www.noswizard.com/car-nitrous-ki ... plete.html

and plenty of spare bottles in the boot.

As a boy racer inprovement.... that is probably the first thing to do i suppose.... of course the extra BHP only really comes out after the 4 stickers are in place.

1) bigger bore exhaust (2.25" or 2.5")
2) port the wastegate after the above to eliminate overboost cutoff
3) Elysium chip
4) better cool air intake system

this list confirms my limited knowledge.
just in a different order of upgrades.

never heard of a Elysium chip. something to goggle now..

Does a cooled air intake really make a difference in the performance of a car ? I understand the phisics side of it. (cooler air means more air into pistons) but wouldnt that also alter the fuel ratio and heat up the engine ?

I have read in the forum someone had fitted a bigger turbo before. it really boosted the power but kicked in rather late and usually the poster ended up changing gear to bring it out. he eventually went back to the stock turbo.

Challenge him to some corners.............

I'd say you'd go round them faster

I believe your right in that, probably even without spending a penny in my car. but what im considering is something in the lines of proving that just because a car is 25 years old, it should not be underestimated...

and not to mention the elan will always be way classier and better head turner than a 235i

PS.
couldn't challenge him to some corners, i get scared way before the elan is ready to give up.

[Tuga2112]

FYI - quoted 0-60 time for the SE (165bhp) is 6.5 sec and it weighs 1,032kg (2,276lb). 60mph can be 6,640 rpm in 2nd gear so probably only one gear change used for that time.

The problem with trying to turn an Elan into a dragster is the 0 to 10 mph bit - being front wheel drive trying to get it moving requires a delicate right foot and the more power you have, the more of a problem it can be, particularly in the wet. There are simple mods to get a bit more power that are well documented on this site but it's generally accepted that about 100 bhp / driven wheel is the limit if the car is not going to try to bite you in the bum.
I suggest do the simple mods to get a bit more power and if your friend outdrags you down the straight you can enjoy catching him up in the twisty bits - that's what Elans were built for.

When I was looking for my 2nd Elan I went to look at and test drove a boy racer 'hot rod' Elan. Owner claimed it had 250bhp and showed me 'dyno charts'. It had a BBR chip, a (plain) dump valve, an air filter that breathed warm air from the engine compartment , big bore exhaust with little silencing, modified brake discs with holes and slots front & rear, and a Quaife LSD - the bad news was the boot was full of an amplifier and 'a boom box' and it had false floors in the front foot-wells to house huge speakers pointing upwards - at the back of your legs ! It also meant I couldn't get the balls of my feet properly on the pedals but I thought I could rip all that rubbish out in a couple of hours.

Absolute nightmare to drive though. The induction system was incredibly noisy, the dump valve popping and hissing and the exhaust so loud it was probably illegal. Having got used to the strange pedal position I started to use the power and found strange things happening with the steering - sort of torque steer / steering lock on power. Floor the throttle from a standstill and the LSD helped with acceleration 'off the line' but as it got under way there was a strange tugging at the steering which had to be held against or the car would wander off the straight and narrow. Power into a corner and most feel in the steering was lost and powering hard round a roundabout I could release the wheel and the car kept going round - and only self straightened when I lifted off. I thought about increasing castor angle but test drive was in the dry and I reckoned in the wet it would be so nasty that I'd make better progress in a mildly tuned Elan that wasn't trying to get away from me all the time, so walked away from that one.

Is your opinion that anything more than the exhaust and chip upgrade is likely to be too much ?

I have considered the power to weight ratio comparison of the 2 cars.
+/-300bhp to 1500kg VS 165bhp to 1030kg
after the simple exhaust and chip modifications the power to weight ratio (assuming over 200bhp is reached) would be pretty close

I dont think the elan needs more power in the higher end of the range. however, i noticed the difference when pulling of at a T junction that there is between the Elan and my Celica.
when pulling out in a hurry (not "flooring"), the 114bhp rated celica feels "torque-yer" than the elan.
when "flooring" out of the T juntion (they both spin so its not like foot all the way down), I feel the elan has a stronger first "jolt" but then, suddenly, it feels like it loses all power and only pics it up at a rather high rpm, while the other car doesnt feel like it lost power.

And just for the record. i am not thinking of racing my friend. I have spent way too many hours working in the Elan to risk it getting damaged by doing something stupid like that.

back on the upgrade topic.

would the exhaust and wastegate port changes on their own be sufficient to notice the lower rev performance improving ? or is this modification going to be felt mostly in the higher range of the revs ?

[Elanlover]

The Isuzu engine is notorious for providing all its power at the top end of the rev curve. Learning to master any car's idiosyncrasies is one of the best ways to "improve performance" - and its cheap too. I'd advise you to keep everything at 3,500 rpm and above to get the most out of the available power.

[GeoffSmith]

Just do it down a steep hill - record it with ElanScan and show him the (indisputable) results.

...or with the front wheels jacked up off the ground - 0-60 in about 3 seconds!

... better remove those front wheels then Dave! That 'll speed things up

.... start in second gear and only do the above to the offside wheel which should halve the figures..... unless you've got a Quaife.

How about one of these kits: http://www.noswizard.com/car-nitrous-ki ... plete.html

and plenty of spare bottles in the boot.

Search for Sh4rk as approved by Enright in 2007.

[lotusflasherman]

Is your opinion that anything more than the exhaust and chip upgrade is likely to be too much ?

I have considered the power to weight ratio comparison of the 2 cars.
+/-300bhp to 1500kg VS 165bhp to 1030kg
after the simple exhaust and chip modifications the power to weight ratio (assuming over 200bhp is reached) would be pretty close

I dont think the elan needs more power in the higher end of the range. however, i noticed the difference when pulling of at a T junction that there is between the Elan and my Celica.
when pulling out in a hurry (not "flooring"), the 114bhp rated celica feels "torque-yer" than the elan.
when "flooring" out of the T juntion (they both spin so its not like foot all the way down), I feel the elan has a stronger first "jolt" but then, suddenly, it feels like it loses all power and only pics it up at a rather high rpm, while the other car doesnt feel like it lost power.

And just for the record. i am not thinking of racing my friend. I have spent way too many hours working in the Elan to risk it getting damaged by doing something stupid like that.

back on the upgrade topic.
would the exhaust and wastegate port changes on their own be sufficient to notice the lower rev performance improving ? or is this modification going to be felt mostly in the higher range of the revs ?

My experience is mainly from building race engines in the 1970's, which was all about wide overlap cams, improving the breathing at the top end and burning as much fuel as possible to turn it into power, not a good CV for road car engine design, but at that time the best book (The Bible) was 'The Design and Tuning of Competition Engines' by Philip H. Smith, which goes into all the decisions you have to make about compromises, and most of it is still true today.

Most of the Elan upgrades (Chip or Boost Control Valve) will add power at the upper part of the rev range by increasing boost and fuel input and big bore exhausts (and wastegate porting) helps get the increased exhaust gas away. I know of nothing that will add more 'at the bottom end' other than nitro. A different cam may add at the bottom but would restrict at the top end. My gut feeling is that a bigger turbo is likely to add more at the top end and make it worse at the bottom but invite opinions on that...

A camshaft with static timing and profiles that is designed to work well at high revs (Elan) will have some limitations at low revs when gases aren't flowing as fast - that's why some modern engines vary the induction tract, some vary the valve timing and some do both. I do know the NA Elan has a different cam to the SE but don't know the detail. (yet! - got me curious to find out now). NA has 130 bhp @ 7,200 rpm / 105 lb/ft @ 4,200 rpm; SE has 165 bhp @ 6,600 rpm / 148 lb/ft @ 4,200 rpm. Having a turbo exaggerates this high/low difference even more - low induction = low exhaust speed = no boost; induction picks up = exhaust gases increase = boost increases; boosted induction = fast exhaust gas = big boost = fun .

Torque depends on the pressure on the pistons, the piston area and the length of stroke and in calculations is sometimes called 'mean effective pressure'. Generally speaking, big engines produce more torque at low revs and it goes all the way up the rev range. What capacity is the Celica? I ran a Scimitar GTE with a Ford 3 litre V6 Essex engine - 138 bhp @ 5000 rpm / 182 lb/ft @ 3000 rpm and replaced it with an Eclat 2.2 160bhp @ 6,500 rpm / 160 lb/ft @ 5000 rpm. The GTE had plenty of 'grunt' and was easier to drive as it wasn't quite so necessary to be 'in the right gear at the right revs' as in the Eclat. The Elan is only 1558cc so the SE's 148 lb/ft @ 4,200 rpm is pretty good.

What you do will depend on how you wish to use your Elan. If you only 'blast down motorways' the effect on balance and handling isn't that significant so big increases may be possible. I believe above 200 bhp will affect the balance and handling, others may disagree. I live in rural Suffolk so balance and handling is much more important to me than a low 0 to 60 time or a theoretical big bhp number. If you go on Google Maps and ask for directions from IP7 6SJ to IP6 8ET you'll get an idea of how straight the roads aren't in this part of Suffolk and why an Elan is such fun..

[theelanman]

don't forget the LGM turbo upgrade.......
huge turbo.....3 bar fuel rail..........got about 250bhp IIRC.....

LGM, Dico, Paul Watkins (now RobP),Tony Munro have got one on.....might be worth looking....or asking.....

always remember tho'.......sort the stopping before adding speed.........

[theelanman]

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=12796

[lotusgirlmarie]

Zoom zoom.

I think I still have one BOV pipe with black silicone fittings lurking around the shop. No valve though. That would have to be sourced. It has a greddy type flange on it.

[HJ2]

Here you can see what gain you could have with all the standard upgrades as mentioned above + a little extra.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19191&p=299433&hilit=piper+downpipe#p299433

Look at the (very) low end torque Phil! almost doubled

[dapinky]

Bottom line, is - don't bother!

(okay, so bother just a bit!)

do the well-documented stuff like chip, exhaust, wastegate port which will make it more than enough.

If you go any 'wilder' you may find that you don't like driving it as much as it becomes less of a road car and more of a race car, and as others have stated, there is no easy way to increase low end power (or torque) which is what keeps it all tractable.

Numbers of horses make little difference on their own - it is only when added to drag coefficient and weight that it can be compared - and the fact that the BMW is RWD will mean that its chassis will take far more power before loosing initial traction.

[HJ2]

Do the 'standard' upgrades for the most smiles / miles.
Even before doing so: Take some 1 on 1 advanced driving lessons. it will give you more than extra horsepower and makes you a better, even safer driver perhaps.
Don't forget the brakes as well.

[theelanman]

remember Costas saying that whilst he had 400bhp.......it didn't work like a Lotus anymore.....