Rebuild/Sell/Part Out ??!!

[simonbuk]

Didn't know where else to post this so its in the 'General' section.

Problem -

I have a 1995 S2 with excellent bodywork, some nice extras (Hi-specs, retrimmed leather seats, Nardi, s/steel downpipe/exhaust), it looks smart. Engine is unhealthy and needs removing for inspection/repair. I have already had a spare short motor rebuilt and also a head rebuilt. Its a Cat C. Done 70K odd miles.

After a few crap years (covid/giving up a job to look after a failing mother who was unknowingly going downhill with Parkinsons, all the other sh*t that goes with that), I guess i've fallen out of love with it. Went down to the garage recently where it is stored and it definately upsets me seeing it as it looks f*ckin smart still !! Even gave it a polish

So I either -

A) have to get the funds together to complete a new engine build and get the engines swapped over (2-3K minimum ?)

B) Sell the car as a going concern . Cat C S2 with a few extras - what is somebody realistically going to pay ?

C) Or I 'part it out' as our friends say across the pond. Having thought of the obvious parts to sell without going down to all the sh*tty small bits, i reckon theres about £6K in parts (wish i hadn't worked that out )

So i guess i'm just asking you to answer option B right now ?

It would be a real shame to break it as it is a very nice car, personally i don't care its a CAT C as its condition is better than a lot of them, I don't care of its value if i repair it.

Thoughts ?

(please lets not go down the route of 'why didn't you.........' 'what happened when.........' 'you should have........' , etc,etc,etc. My mental health can't handle reliving all the history of things )

[Simon_P]

Sell the short block and get the original engine repaired. What is actually wrong with the original engine?

[simonbuk]

Sell the short block that I've already had rebuilt ? Whys that ?

Nobody knows what's wrong with the engine, that's why it's got to be removed and inspected. A mechanical noise under load, a few people have inspected and every person came up with a different answer (including an M100 guru who couldn't come up with an answer).
I did have a head changed but that made no difference, so it can only be internal now. It did have a head gasket go in its history so maybe lost some oil pressure and it's caught up with it ?

[Hector2021]

Sorry to hear that you have had such a Cr@ppy time of it. For me my Elan is my escape from the grim and stress parts of life and sometimes its a real pressure valve.
My first thought would be that as you know the overall condition of your car (engine notwithstanding) then you are in a fairly good place in knowing any other issues or lack of them. Buying another car introduces a whole raft of other unknowns. As you are indifferent to its value if fixed then that to me suggests its worth sticking with it and looking at sorting the original engine. £2-3K obviously isn't an insignificant sum, but overall, at around 70k miles the engine should be in good order elsewhere once sorted.
If you sell it you'll probably get a painfully low price for it given what they seem to be selling for now, ( a white S2 that looked spot on went for just £7.5k last week) plus your cars history and concerns to a new owner.
If you break it and sell in parts you will definitely regret it. Stripping it down may be painful and you'll still be left with bits that you can't sell which you will then end up scrapping. Its sounds too good overall for this treatment.
Overall of course if its option B that youre looking for feedback on then just test the market and see what people are prepared to pay for it.

[dapinky]

My reply will surprise no-one.... but may add a few thoughts to your options.

I hate to see cars broken up when they are salvageable - BUT - if it gets you more money, then I can see why you will consider it (and it will help to keep others going).

It sounds far too good to break, and if the 'only' concern is the engine, then there are options.

I'm not sure where your £2-3K estimate comes from, and it sounds very strong money to me, if you have already got the short block and head done. I would expect it to cost no more than £1K to complete and swap (but it depends on what other new parts you fit, what comes off yours, and who does the work.

Anyway, have you considered getting a working second-hand engine, ready-to-go and doing a simple swap? It won't have the 'original' engine, but as a Cat C, I can't see that the car would detract because of it (anyone who is that worried wouldn't want a Cat C car to start with, and it wouldn't worry most people). A 'Brand New' engine has a value, but may not increase the value of the car it's fitted to.

You could sell the 'new' engine, buy a S/H complete unit, swap them over (probably breaking even) and still have your old engine to sell.

Okay, it is a bit of hassle, but not as much as breaking a car and sending parts everywhere......

..... and you never know, once it is running, you may fall in love again.

[simonbuk]

@dapinky - thanks for the reply.

I had thought about a complete s/h engine and have seen 2/3 come up for sale. Somewhere between 7/900 pounds, problem is they have always been sitting on a pallet. Just not going to buy something that I can't hear running. As you say originality doesn't matter anymore really so I wouldn't be against doing it.

As regards cost, I've got nothing really to go on and nobody can really give an accurate cost so it'll just be like giving somebody a blank cheque.

If the workshop manual says 4-5 hours to remove an engine and similar to put back , then how many hours to put the new one together and swap the ancillaries from the old one ? Then other parts that might be needed along the way as you say. So 15-20 man hours at £75-100 per hour +VAT ? Just don't know.

If it was a £1000 I'd do it tomorrow !

And yes, if it gets finish I know I will fall in love again but just struggling with the love right now !!

[Simon_P]

What were the symptoms of the bottom end issue, metal in the oil or smoke out of the exhaust?

What sort of noise? Knocking, grinding, whistling etc.The Japanese describe noises phonetically so coto coto is the noise a CV joint makes

[simonbuk]

Well I can only describe it (from vague memory of 4/5 years ago) as a kind of metallic/tapping/rattle under load. Someone suggested the head was noisey so I incorrectly got a head swapped - made no difference.
I think it's got oil starvation issues as there just didn't seem to be as much oil in the head as there should have been. Anyway I think that engine is toast, or at a minimum would need rebuilding so when a good used block turned up I just got that rebuilt.

ETA - no smoke /oil out of the exhaust

[Tuga2112]

I Know nobody is getting any younger. But

you also have the option of just waiting for another year or 2 before acting on it.

B - right now its a terrible time to sell a car, and as a non-runner your definitely going to get less than the parts's worth

C - parting out is an extremely time consuming endeavour, and after the initial rush of sale for the "better" bits, your going to find yourself with a lot of valuable stuff that is hard to sell... (even at very modest asking prices)

Its probably worth getting in touch with your more local M100 folk (your neck of the woods has more per square mile than up here) and possibly get a few folk together to help with the work on the promise of pizza and good banter in the process.

I have recently joined the region's Lotus club and meet a few folk there that although may not be m100 enthusiasts, they know their cars and have been very helpful, i have learnt there's a lot of good people that are not in this community, but will be happy to give you input that may get your situation fixed.

what you want to do is avoid any lotus club that is majority of members are elise drivers.. there seems to be a completely different mindset to those folk compared to other (older) models

[Simon_P]

It could (note could) be piston slap but that's diagnosable. And I would spend any money until you know what the issue is.

There are all manner of things that could rattle in the clutch and gearbox.

The head is designed so that the oil runs back into the sump.

What oil do you use?

[simonbuk]

It could (note could) be piston slap but that's diagnosable. And I would spend any money until you know what the issue is.

There are all manner of things that could rattle in the clutch and gearbox.

The head is designed so that the oil runs back into the sump.

What oil do you use?

An M100 guru and garage owner saw and drove the car - said if he had it for an hour he could work out what it was. Took it back and he had it for over an hour and didn't know what it was 'the engine has to be pulled'.

I know the engine oil runs back down but he noted that it didn't seem as much as normal. Can't remember what oil.

I'm honestly not being rude but all this has been discussed before and i don't want to descend into all that again - its in other threads.

Don't want to mention the M100 guru as in the past people have said 'it will be an obvious noise' etc,etc, so it suggests he doesn't know what hes doing ,etc. lets just say well respected and recommened often on here by people, many people use him.

I am where i am. The engine needs to be removed, inspected, maybe the box inspected, its all i cost and i don't know what it is going to be.

[Simon_P]

I am where i am. The engine needs to be removed, inspected, maybe the box inspected, its all i cost and i don't know what it is going to be.

first it was the head, then the bottom end...but you don't want to discuss, so my best advice is stick it on eBay for £1 and see how much someone will pay you to take it away. If you're lucky it will be gone this time next week and you can move on.

Or drive it until the noise stops.

[simonbuk]

I am where i am. The engine needs to be removed, inspected, maybe the box inspected, its all i cost and i don't know what it is going to be.

first it was the head, then the bottom end...but you don't want to discuss, so my best advice is stick it on eBay for £1 and see how much someone will pay you to take it away. If you're lucky it will be gone this time next week and you can move on.

Or drive it until the noise stops.

No, i said the people that looked at it all came up with different answers, somebody said the head, somebody said the bottom, somebody said 'no problem, sounds allright to me' even though it sounded bad, etc,etc. Nobody came up with the same answer which suggests its not easy to diagnose, it certainly can't be diagnosed over the internet which everybody seems to want to do.

I honestly wasn't being rude (sorry if it came over that way), but its all been done on earlier threads thats why i didn't want to go down that route again.

I'm realising that just to get shot of as a complete car with noisey engine is not a good financial decision. Even breaking it i won't have to go down to the minor parts to get a lot of money for the car.

[roy666]

Simon - to add to Dave's comments: I did a second hand engine replace on my S2 two years ago. I had a serious heat event which cost me 2 HGFs and the engine was still not right, so popped into Lotus Bits and spoke to Mike who had 5 Isuzu engines on the shelf; I bought (£1400) one with a 100K (miles) on it and Mike's assurance that it was in excellent shape (and I could take the car back to him if it all went horrible). I took the engine out myself but took car + 2H engine (on a trailer) to Chris Foulds who installed the new unit for me (£1800). I have not looked back since and the engine has just been fantastic. So... get a 2H engine mate,... and keep the car going!

[simonbuk]

£1800 to install the engine ?!

[Simon_P]

£1800 to install the engine ?!

sounds reasonable.

No you didn't sound rude but you have formulated a discussion where all answers are unacceptable to you.

If there was anything seriously wrong with it it would be clanging like a traction engine, smoking like one or have metallic silver oil.

If You've offered it round for general opinion and nobody's able to give you an answer, it can't be that bad so the solution is to enjoy driving it until the problem manifests itself. What do you have to lose? You've already decided you need a new engine.

[roy666]

£1800... I was really pleased...and Chris and Steve took their time and really looked after the car. For another head gasket change i was quoted £1500 to £2500!; moreover, with the engine out I was able to get in to the bay and do some serious restoration work to the whole area. It was a 'no brainer' for me.

[simonbuk]

Did that include any new parts ?

[roy666]

Not really..although on top of that i had new clutch, new water pump, new lower heat shields (bespoke). I shopped around quite a bit for quotes and Chris was by far the most competitive (most expensive was Alan White.. and some places just were not interested).

[simonbuk]

Just had a good chat with Tim at Lakeside Engineering - the car might motor on for some time yet

Thanks for everybodys comments yesterday - everything has/had been getting me down recently so the thought of breaking it up was an even worse feeling.

Onwards and upwards