F1 formula one chat/stuff

[lotusflasherman]

Best move of the day for me was when Hamilton got far too cocky and big for his boots at the restart with only a few laps to go

Weren't those high speed Pirelli blow outs frightening and rather worrying I remember ~7 years ago Pirelli also had problems with high speed blowouts at Silverstone. From memory there were 5 or 6 in the whole race. Not a good advert for the brand

And not a good time to put those Pirelli boots back on the Ebola Phil

Run at the correct pressure they should be OK. Teams were running them low to get / keep the heat in them, and they failed at the shoulder ... little hint about it here ...F1 in Schools - Gary Anderson

[clemo]

Well who would have thought France could have thrown an interesting race. Not a fan of the circuit but closer racing is making the title race between teams so much more entertaining.

[clemo]

HOTTING UP FOR SILVERSTONE .
Anyone going ?

[lotusles]

HOTTING UP FOR SILVERSTONE .
Anyone going ?

Sadly not anymore as my Company are now supporting Formula e, so no more hospitality for F1.

Anyway BSB is far more exciting especially this weekend at Knockhill

[clemo]

Sprint race not race ...
F1 sprint race . Pointless for those outside the top 3 .
Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind change but 17 Laps . Is that going to pull in the kids ? I don’t think so . Did it spice it up ? Not really.
GP2 sprint race with a reverse top 10 and then points awarded YES . They already have an interesting format . Use that. but this just made the Friday quali fairly pointless.
Was not a fan of it .

[Steve A]

Saw the race today, it's all getting a bit touring car, I think Lewis got off very light, and Verstappen was just lucky to walk away

[clemo]

Well who would have thought Ocon for the win . Multi 21 Seb gets disqualified for not enough fuel left in the car so Lewis gets bumped up to 2nd ...
That guy falls in Sh1t and comes out smelling of roses doesn't he ...

What a start though .
Bottas plays skittles with the front of the pack , gutted for Lando and Perez. The championship is back on . Best of all Williams score points .
Result .
George to Mercedes anyone ?

[petezipp]

dont think Merc need the agro of two "Fast" drivers.
Get George in a stronger Merc and save him for when Lewis retires.
But what do I know.

[rip]

Well who would have thought Ocon for the win . Multi 21 Seb gets disqualified for not enough fuel left in the car so Lewis gets bumped up to 2nd ...
That guy falls in Sh1t and comes out smelling of roses doesn't he ...

On the whole, I would agree that Hamilton has had more than his fair share of luck this season, but his race in Hungary was compromised because nobody should have been allowed into the pits after the second formation lap:

42.8 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car a message “STANDING
START” will be sent to all teams via the official messaging system, all FIA light panels will display
“SS” and the car's orange lights will be extinguished. This will be the signal to the teams and
drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall
more than ten car lengths behind it.
Once the safety car has entered the pit lane all cars, with the exception of those that were in
their garage at the time the race was suspended (see Article 41.3), must return to the grid, take
up their grid positions and follow the procedures set out in Article 36.9 to 36.13.

Someone pointed this out on FB & I doubted it until I looked the rule up. They are all available for anyone with the patience to read them. This one appears on p.41 of the attached document.

So Hamilton was the only driver to not infringe this rule at the re-start. All others should have received some sort of penalty.
The other teams/drivers got it wrong by pitting.
The stewards got it wrong by doing nothing.
Mercedes got it wrong by not highlighting the problem to the race director.

It was a cock-up by all concerned & made a farce of the re-start...but it gave us a better race.
It is no wonder there are so many arguments & appeals if the stewards don't even apply the rules properly.

[GeoffSmith]

Except they now appear to be at Issue 11 so article 51.11 would apply. It doesn't alter your argument, however it is interesting that references to procedures for those who returned to the grid in Articles 36.10 and 36.15 are impossible to follow as they don't exist! There is no reference to what happens to those who infringe this procedure, so maybe this was the cop-out for the other cars.

How many millions are involved in F1 and they can't employ a decent proof reader?

[rip]

It is crazy. If rules don't work, then they need to be re-written, not just ignored.

[Rambo]

The most exciting F1 season that I can remember for years. Two great drivers and rivals fighting it out right down to the wire.

You couldn't make up the end

[Dave Eds]

couldn't make up the end

But that's exactly what they did do......

[Rambo]

Very controversial in the end - I can't see Toto and Mercedes taking this lying down. However they had the same opportunities as RB to pit under the safety car for fresh rubber, albeit they would have lost track position and probably the race anyway. Perhaps if they had pitted first........

PS where is LEC race director Dave Clements when you need him

[FunElan]

couldn't make up the end

But that's exactly what they did do......

This made me laugh

Both drivers deserved to win really....but the big winner is Netflix. This season will bring even more fans to the sport because the Drive to Survive episodes will likely be that much more thrilling.

[rip]

Very controversial in the end - I can't see Toto and Mercedes taking this lying down. However they had the same opportunities as RB to pit under the safety car for fresh rubber, albeit they would have lost track position and probably the race anyway. Perhaps if they had pitted first........

PS where is LEC race director Dave Clements when you need him

Except their track position didn't give them the same opportunities.
Hamilton had the lead so wanted to keep it. Verstappen had nothing to lose so there was no gamble.
If Mer had pitted Hamilton, RB would have left Verstappen out & been laughing at being given the lead.
The only 3 possible race endings were:
1. Immediate red flag & short sprint with each car on new tyres.
2. Restart after SC without lapped cars unlapping themselves.
3. Let all lapped cars unlap themselves. This takes time then the rules state SC MUST stay out for a further lap, so the race would have finished behind the SC.

What Masi did was unprecedented & outside of the rules. What was worse is that he decided #2 until a team principal called him & urged him to change his decision, then we saw the weakest refereeing I have ever witnessed.

[Rambo]

I totally agree with your synopsis Rip. It was totally unfair for Hamilton in the end. The correct result would have been finishing under the SC. However, Masi obvioudy tought that was boring, so flung the rulebook out and made up his own rules. I think he should be sacked by the FIA for gross misconduct.

As you say, it shows leadership of the weakest type, and we've seen plenty of that in the past 2 years or so from the Bungling BoJo, Wee Nicky Krankie and their respective, incompetent arse lickers

[dapinky]

As you say, it shows leadership of the weakest type, and we've seen plenty of that in the past 2 years or so from the Bungling BoJo, Wee Nicky Krankie and their respective, incompetent arse lickers

Mark, don't forget to include Comrade Chairman Dickford of Cymru in that list of "leaders".....


But - to get back on topic, and I preface this with the statement that I don't actually follow F1 these days (and haven't for a good many years, since it lost it's spectator appeal to me a long time ago), I know nothing about the role of a "Race Director", and nowt at all about the "rules" of running a current race (procession??).

I assume that the "Race Director" is a bit like a referee/umpire whose role is to uphold the rules during a race, and then to adjudicate any appeals afterwards in the same way that a horse racing Stewards enquiry would be held.

That said, without knowing the exact rules, I can't say what his options were on the day, BUT, it appears to me that he may have just thrown the book out of the window on the day, and used the "laws" as "guidelines" which he can do as he wishes with.

Anyway, the final outcome (so far!) is that Max is the driver champion, and Mercedes is the Constructor champion - and that should be that.

I know little about Verstappen (other than what the media is throwing out about his dodgy family history), but he passed Hamilton on the last lap, and crossed the line first, so is the "winner".

I understand that it was possibly more about the state of his tyres than his driving, but I assume that Mercedes had an equal chance to swap tyres at some point, but for whatever reasons applied at the time, didn't do so - so maybe it was just "luck" that things worked out as they did, and had Hamilton been further back in the procession at the time the Safety Car was deployed, he could have pitted and swapped tyres - so is he a victim of his own success???

Anyway, I don't particularly like Hamilton as a person, so am happy to see him coming in second..... that said, I can (and do) fully appreciate his skill and ability as a driver - but don't like him. He is getting a K this week, and I'm not sure what it is for, but I'm sure he'll be on the telly to dedicate it to some political cause or other, completely unrelated to his winning a few (lot of!) races.

[Jamie N]

I hear Lewis Hamilton has gone back to Musical Youth, he couldn't pass the Dutchie on the left hand side.

[MPx]

I preface this with the statement that I don't actually follow F1 these days (and haven't for a good many years, since it lost it's spectator appeal to me a long time ago), I know nothing about the role of a "Race Director", and nowt at all about the "rules" of running a current race (procession??).
....
That said, without knowing the exact rules, I can't say what his options were on the day, BUT, it appears to me that he may have just thrown the book out of the window on the day, and used the "laws" as "guidelines" which he can do as he wishes with.
....
and that should be that.
....
I know little ...but he crossed the line first, so is the "winner".
....
I assume that Mercedes had an equal chance to swap tyres at some point
.....

Very surprised by your post Dave. Basically, while claiming to know nothing (and dare I say demonstrating it to some extent) - you conclude that all is fair in love and war and the first past the post is the winner.

Iain explained very well in his 09:38 above post why it was all wrong. F1 has always been a huge set of arbitrary rules that everyone involved has to abide by, and the winners tend to be those who find the loopholes and/or something new not covered by the rules. The rules then change to bung the loophole or outlaw the inovation. What has always been done hitherto is that the rules that are there are upheld and those who break them get penalties of various sorts from time, places, points or even disqualification to drivers and teams. The rules haven't been applied consistently this year at all. In this case there were clear rules covering the situation and the potential procedures for it playing out. Mercedes made sensible (and winning) stratgic decisions based on those rules. But as a one off and without precedent those rules weren't followed by the referee of all people. There's no clear rationale as to why that was - its being presented as simply Masi using his discretion. In no other sport is the referee allowed to use his discretion to apply a different rule to the ones written down covering the very situation faced. How can any participant make a rational decision about what to do if they don't know what rules the ref will be applying. I'm not blaming RB they just made the best of the situation. Although I do think that Horner and Wolff lobbying is completely out of order. But its Masi (and possibly his bosses if they pressured him for a more exciting outcome) who created this farce. As I say, Iain expained above why MB wouldn't have pitted Hamilton. In every instance I've seen over the years of a similar crash/safety car incident, the race would have finished under safety car because there weren't enough laps left to work through the process as written down and get back to racing. Even if they'd left the lapped cars in place the rules say that the safety car should come in "the following lap" not the same lap when the competitors are told its coming in. If they had red flagged the race it was far enough through to declare the result - the normal procedure - but even if they had decided on a restart for 1? 2? 3? laps, at least that would have been more even handed. What happened was Masi declared MV world champion a lap or so before the end of the race when he was in second place. Its left a bad taste. Will stick to MotoGP next year.