LEC Expeditionary Force in Cyprus

[epipete]

John,

Thanks, I checked my order with PNM and know I ordered the 15" and when I compare them to the pics on PNMs website, and against the pics of Cliff's 16" calipers I believe that they are correct.

So that only leaves two possibilities, 1 I have upgraded hubs (which I think is most unlikely) and/or 2 they have not followed the instructions as provided by PNM; I suspect the later I shall be there tomorrow when they open.

I have been reading about this 'Pad Overhang' not sure what this is all about but am expecting some comments tomorrow!

[Artaban]

Pete,
I agree, it all looks as it should. You can see below that the pad overhangs the standard disc but as already mentioned this isn't an issue. As for the cables being the wrong length; did they specify too long or too short?

If needed I can always take a better picture as the one above was half way through putting the car back together.

Andy

[Fredjohn]

Pete photos as promised, but a bit iffy through the wheel. You can clearly see the alloy tube for the cable in both pics and also the gap between the edge of the disc and the calliper body: Artaban's photo of this is probably clearer though.

PNMJO1.JPG

PNMJO2.JPG

[epipete]

Thanks, IIRC I think he said to short. This would be in line with the need for the two allot tubes wouldn't it. Therefore if they are all fitted as they should be and there is still a shortness this may be corrected at the hand brake end (I'm assuming that there is sufficient play and that the cables are fully cranked!

Andy, if you have 'an above' picture showing the handbrake cable extenders that would be great.

Pete

[Fredjohn]

The cable is quite difficult to attach to the calliper lever: it needs to be slackened at the other end then tightened up afterwards. This combined with brute force and ignorance!! It's easy to get one on, but then the balancer bar comes into play and the second is more difficult, but ultimately do-able.

[Artaban]

Pete,
This is the view from above. Let me know if it doesn't capture what you are after and I'll try and get a few more angles.


Andy

[cliff]

Pete,

I had no problem with the length of the cables although if I remember correctly, I did slacken them off at the handbrake to make fitting easier and to make sure they were correctly adjusted afterwards. They do need a little re-routing, I p-clipped mine to the upper top link. As has been mentioned, the alloy tubes have to be fitted and there is a light overhang on the pads. PNM did mention that the excess could be trimmed off but given the marginal wear on the rear brakes didn't seem worth it. Here are some more pics:

P2110054.jpg

P2110055.jpg

P2110060.jpg

P2110062.jpg

P2110063.jpg

I have pm'd you my Bubble & UK numbers if you need any more help.

[epipete]

Thanks for the pictures, there a great help.

I checked out the mot history on the new Govt Website, seems emissions and brakes have been a bit of an Achilles Heel right back to the earliest entry in 2006 it stated:

Reason(s) for failure:


Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content excessive (7.3.B.1a)

Offside rear parking brake recording little or no effort (3.7.B.6a)

Parking brake: efficiency below requirements (3.7.B.7)

Time to get them sorted once and for all.

[epipete]

Ive been up to the garage and I must confess I am really impressed! They have sorted out my Emissions problems, reset the timing etc, etc. They have also pointed out the Coolant tank leak (not only around the filler neck but also at the main coolant outlet pipe) and found an oil leak on the Turbo Oil Feed which they will sort. Hopefully the Coolant tank will arrive soon.

The issue with the new PNM Brakes was twofold firstly he hadn't fully understood the need or application of the Spacer Pipe and Secondly he is concerned that the Piston is visible through the caliper and is therefore not exerting proper pressure against the disk. This seem logical but looking at what they have done I can't see where it is wrong (if indeed it is)

Can anyone please look at the picture and tell me if it look right

[Fredjohn]

Pete

My opinion is yes looks OK. Compare your photo with my second photo and Andy's of 15.20pm yesterday. The edge of the disc appears to pass through the same point of the caliper: through the upper small "arch" right hand "pillar" if you see what I mean.

Get the pads in and system bled properly and see what braking performance you get. That is the ultimate test of it's efficiency after all. No it doesn't look right, but I can assure you it works very well: the Stelvio, St Gotthard, Fursten, Grimsel and Susten passes all confirm my brakes work!!!!!!

Seems like you've hit upon a good enthusiastic garage: they will probably bleed them well and get them working now the overall principle is understood.

John

[dapinky]

Pete,

Glad to hear that you've got closer!

Don't forget, the rear brakes don't actually do a huge lot anyway, so the overhang of the piston and consequently the pad merely reduces the total force available to be applied by the caliper.

As you don't need anything like the pressure that the caliper is capable of applying, the slight reduction in contact area between pad and disk doesn't matter (I don't know how the surface area differs to the OE pads anyway).... and Physics dictates that any force applied to the disc further away from the centre of rotation will have a greater braking effect anyway (I can't be bothered to explain it here - but trust me, it's right!).

[Fredjohn]

A bit like a lever: the longer the lever the less force needed: the further the distance from the centre of the hub the greater the effect of a given applied force.

PS this is simple man's physics, no Steven Hawkings explanation needed!!!!!!!!

[epipete]

Thanks guys, I'll pass that on to them and keep my fingers crossed.

[cliff]

Gaps look ok but I only have pics with pads fitted and one without the disc.

P2110049.jpg

P2110051.jpg

P2110052.jpg

Almost there.

They do work very well, I am sure you will be happy with them.

[epipete]

Again, thanks. I also asked John at PNM and he also confirms so I've hold the garage to proceed on that basis.

For a minute this morning Cliff I nearly called you to find out how good your spoken Greek was! Cheers

The coolant tank arrived from the uk this afternoon so that went up along with a turbo oil pipe for fitment. It all feels rather positive at the moment.

Pete

[epipete]

Well everything was fitted together, turbo oil pipe fixed, changed header tank, brakes etc so went to collect it for its mot. You have to have retest done by the same test centre as the original fail so I paid the bill and brimming with confidence set off, well

FAIL

The OSR is under performing! I attach a photo of the reading the offending figures are Rear Axle Right Force = 615 Nwtns

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what the problem is, I'm assuming more bleeding. Could there be any other factors, new pads can't help?

What about the rest of the figures, any comments/considerations please?

Pete

[Fredjohn]

My thought would also be more bleeding time and money.....

[dapinky]

As the parking brake figure is higher than the service brake figure (for the right wheel), I think you can rule out the friction between the pad and disk as the problem - as it clearly gets good friction on the handrake mechanism.....

.... so it's down to the hydraulic pressure.....

..... so bleeding is a good start (and if that fails, then the proportioning valves would be where I'd go to get more pressure to the back wheels )

[epipete]

Thanks, I was wondering about the portioning valves, but if they're knackered then that just adds a further delay. In respect of bleeding is there any technique, such as swivelling the callipers around as you bleed like with the OEM calipers?

Need to have this sorted on Monday as my 28day deadline for registration expires on Tuesday, I might be in a Cell on Wednesday!

Oh, emissions were perfect by the way!

[HJ2]

what helps when bleeding is to undo the caliper from the the bracket and turn it around and tap it with a plastic hammer to get all the tiny bubbles out. Alto tap on the brake limiter and undo the connections a little (whilst under pressure) till the fluid comes out

It is a little extra work, but well wort the effort!