turbwoe

[bobface]

Okay, so day three of my sports car owning experience and i've blown it up. Not sure how but basically it's lost a lot of power, i dont think the turbo is kicking in at all (certainly according to the gauge), but also not turbo feeling or sound. Just plain engine noise and slow movement

Flooring it in second gear, the turbo doesn't budge, the car grinds up to about 6k rpm, and stays around there gettign upto say 50mph.

Before i wheel it down to the garage, is there anything i could check? I've read stuff here on the paperclip thing, would that yeild anything useful?

Shaun

[lotuska]

Need more info....apart from lack of turbo, what about odd noises, smoke, mis-fire, engine check light on or off etc etc...

I'd start with the following if you suspect the turbo:

1. Stuck wastegate (stuck open)
2. Turbo output pipe fallen off

[bobface]

thanks,

No smoke, no misfire, no odd noises, engine lights are normal. I'll look up the wastegate and turbo pipe stuff on the ol' forums

thanks

shaun

[Nige]

I'm about 20-30 minutes from you near Ringwood. If you need another pair of eyes to look then PM me, I'm at home all weekend. If the car was working normally before then a stuck open wastegate or hose disconnected seems most likely. Having an S2 and NA I have experience of the with turbo and without turbo effect .

[bobface]

Coolio,

I think its a stuck wastegate, that little rod is going nowhere, and (as per other posts) i dont have a handy 11 yr old i think i'm going to try the molegrip approach.

If that doesn't work i don't fancy trying to take the turbo cover off, looks awkwardly placed and i'll lose all the bits, i saw another post (http://lotuselancentral.com/forum/viewt ... +wastegate) about taking the bolts off the actuator instead of the cover, anybody got any good dumbass instructions/pics?

Shaun

[Enright]

You MUST have blown a pipe off. I'd put money on a loose jubilee clip - like where the upper hose goes into the throttle body.

[Nige]

After a visual check to see that all is connected as it should be the molegrip approach is the first thing worth a try. Do not attempt to remove the turbo heatshield at this stage as this should both be unecessary and the bolts will be very difficult given the heat they are subject to.

[bobface]

Okay, all the pipes appear to still be attached, so i attacked it with some molegrips. It's a little tricky as the only access is between the heat sheild and the top of the actuator, maybe a couple of inches if that. So i got the grips on and wiggled it in and out. It did move but i only managed to move it say 3/4" at best (left to right as you look at the engine). It was quite resistive.

When the engine is running, car in neutral and throttle opened to full and closed that little rod (and turbo gauge) stay exceptionally still.

What's supposed to happen? I'd think the rod would move and the turbo kick in? Which way is the rod supposed to move (l to r, or r to l) and by how much?

Also, removing the heat sheild will give better access but the low bolt on the bottom appears to be a bitch to get to, i dont have a slim enough rachet. Any good tooltips?

s

[Nige]

3/4" movement sounds about right. Without looking at mine IIRC movement of the rod to the right (looking at it from the front of the car) opens the wastegate movement to the left closes it. However wastegate operation is not simply mechanical and is controlled by the Boost Solenoid Valve which in turn is controlled by the ECU which takes all sorts of factors into account before deciding how much boost it's going to let you have for example it will not allow full boost if the engine is not fully warmed up. Because of the ECU control revving the engine with the car in neutral will not have any significant effect on the boost gauge or the wastegate (and therefore no movement of the actuator rod) the engine needs to be under load to get the effect. By moving the rod you may well have freed it if it was stuck, as the rod is connected to a capsule and spring is will not move freely and there will be some resistance. Try driving it now you have wiggled the wastegate and see if there is any improvement. If not we may be back to square 1 but at least we've started a process of elimination.

[Paul.P]

When the engine is running, car in neutral and throttle opened to full and closed that little rod (and turbo gauge) stay exceptionally still.

Turbo cannot boost unless its under pressure, ie it needs to be driven !

[Doug]

well, WITH THE ENGINE OFF, you can take off the intake pipe to the turbo inlet and (WITH THE ENGINE OFF) put your fingers on the inlet fan blades and spin them -- if they spin freely at least that is a good sign -- if they do not move then you have a knackered turbo for sure!

You could keep the intake pipe off and then start the car (WITH YOUR FINGERS SAFELY AWAY FROM ANYTHING THAT MAY SPIN/MOVE) -- you may see the turbo vanes spin a bit at idle, but you can rev the engine with the throttle cable end manually and you should see the turbo spin and you can get boost with the car not moving but it is not as fun for sure.

[Paul.P]

well, WITH THE ENGINE OFF, you can take off the intake pipe to the turbo inlet and (WITH THE ENGINE OFF) put your fingers on the inlet fan blades and spin them -- if they spin freely at least that is a good sign -- if they do not move then you have a knackered turbo for sure!

You could keep the intake pipe off and then start the car (WITH YOUR FINGERS SAFELY AWAY FROM ANYTHING THAT MAY SPIN/MOVE) -- you may see the turbo vanes spin a bit at idle, but you can rev the engine with the throttle cable end manually and you should see the turbo spin and you can get boost with the car not moving but it is not as fun for sure.

Didn't realise this Doug, was always under the impression engine had to be loaded to allow turbo to boost

[Enright]

Paul,

There's a bit of a difference between spinning at idle and boosting.
Turbos on boost run at RPM's that would horrify you.
I've heard it said that it's in the region of 180,000!

The exhaust gases can't go anywhere but through the exhaust side of the turbo, so they take the blades with them and even at idle this gives some movement to the compressor side because the bearings are so good.

But they have to be spinning BLOODY fast for them to move enough air to be boosting pressure on the compressor side.

[bobface]

More symptoms... not one of which is good...

So, a little trip out, not too much madness a) cos it's not really doing it and b) rush hour in southampton doesn't allow for much either

I lied earlier when i said no strange noises. I heard this time a perceptible hiss coming from the centre of the car through the vents (no not the fan!). I popped the bonnet and i can hear it in there too. Sounds like gas escaping, it doesn't change pitch with engine rpm, but i think it might disappear around 3k, difficult to hear over the engine noise. I think it's coming from somewhere in the middle at the back on the engine but i can't feel any hot air streams or anything. This hissing dies away after the engine's stopped in about 2~3 seconds. Pressure leak?

It also is getting real hot real quick, i know sitting in traffic is not good for any car, but it gets up to 1 notch below H on the gauge soon after starting and idling in traffic. Engine fan does kick in (i know cos it makes a helluva racket)

Also, exhaust rattle. This may have been there before, but i didn't notice. I'd be suprised tho, it rattles and resonates like hell around 3~4.5k rpm.

Still no turbo. Don't you love a whodunnit?

Shaun

[bobface]

Neil, have you got a picture with some crafty arrows pointing to things like "There should be a hose here going to this"? on the throttle body. The hiss seems to be coming from round there but nothing looks obvious homeless.

[Enright]

I'm a bit more concerned about your temperatures and hissing than the turbo. Firstly, tell me you've checked your oil and water and both are normal!
Because the high temperature sounds suspiciously like a lack of water and the hissing sounds like it could be coming from the expansion tank (top right as you look under the bonnet).
The pipe that I was thinking about that may have come loose is the really big S shaped one just in front of the expansion tank.
If you remove it anyway, start the engine and rev it, you should be able to feel a draught coming from the metal pipe that disappears into the wing.
PM me with your number if you want to go through a few things. I might be able to diagnose it over the phone.

[M100 TWO]

Shaun, has the inside of the rear silencer collapsed and causing back pressure, I have phoned you earlier today but no answer, I could have a look at the car on sunday morning if this would be any help to you.
john

[bobface]

john! I left my phone on silent like an idiot, and my voicemail is busted at the moment! I'll check the coolant and oil levels now, and try to call you shortly

[bobface]

After John's invaluable insight and assistance this morning (thanks again John!) i now have a long shopping list of bits that need doing to the car!

We recorded this elanscan of a little jaunt around southampton, anybody got any thoughts on this?

For info i have some holes in my exhaust, very dodgy brakes and only one operational engine fan.

[ailwyn]

For info i have some holes in my exhaust, very dodgy brakes and only one operational engine fan.

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