Total loss of power (a first time poster's plea for help!)

[Sailbad_The_Sinner]

Good morning gents, and greetings from the great State of Texas!

My '91 Elan was purring like a kitten when I took her to the tire store for new shoes yesterday; when it was time to hit the road again she barely started. No power at all, and I had to keep my foot practically to the floor (and no higher than second gear) to get her the two miles or so to home. Other than a slightly wonky cold idle she has always run smooth and strong. The dealer I bought her from last June claims he replaced the cam bearings and external water pump but the rest of her service history is anybody's guess. Just over 40k miles.

Any idea what likely happened so suddenly with a single turn of the key? Jumped timing, broken turbo, ?? I have the service manual and am anxious to learn how you adjust timing without a distributor that rotates, like on my '61 Olds Starfire. (Has my ignorance been revealed already?)

I have new Bridgestones on freshly repainted wheels but can't go anywhere on this beautiful spring day in Houston. Please let me know where to start!!

Thanks for your time and consideration,

Dave

[TorqueHorse]

Hey Dave,
Matt in Austin here. Too bad this didn't happen when I was in Houston earlier this week. Anyways, if it really was running fine when you turned it off and then was different just by 'turning the key' then it probably isn't anything as serious as a broken turbo or jumped timing.
You'll want to go to the manuals section on this site and download the "Closed Loop Settings.pdf" (the FED version of the car is setup as closed loop) and at the very end of the pdf there are symptom based troubleshooting checklists.
You'll also want to get a paperclip to try and get the basic ECU error code (esp. if there is an associated engine light). It can also help put the car in limited sensor mode to help you eliminate if it is a bad sensor reading, or a bad widget.
Common, easy to check potential problem areas are: Spark plugs, injectors, loose vacuum hose. when you are starting to go through the troubleshooting checklist.
There are threads on this site on how to do the paperclip test; the wastegate wiggle; and the injector "click" test as you are going through that troubleshooting checklist.
Also, you can rent a 'noid light' injector tester for free from autozone, etc. and while there just rent the compression tester as well to get a good baseline of what your engine is doing.
Let us know how it goes after you've done the basics on the spark, fuel, air tests.

[RonR]

I would take your dealer's words with a large grain of salt:
AFAIK there are no cam bearings in the M100 engine, the cams run directly in the head and cap material!

[Sailbad_The_Sinner]

Hey Dave,
Matt in Austin here. Too bad this didn't happen when I was in Houston earlier this week. Anyways, if it really was running fine when you turned it off and then was different just by 'turning the key' then it probably isn't anything as serious as a broken turbo or jumped timing.
You'll want to go to the manuals section on this site and download the "Closed Loop Settings.pdf" (the FED version of the car is setup as closed loop) and at the very end of the pdf there are symptom based troubleshooting checklists.
You'll also want to get a paperclip to try and get the basic ECU error code (esp. if there is an associated engine light). It can also help put the car in limited sensor mode to help you eliminate if it is a bad sensor reading, or a bad widget.
Common, easy to check potential problem areas are: Spark plugs, injectors, loose vacuum hose. when you are starting to go through the troubleshooting checklist.
There are threads on this site on how to do the paperclip test; the wastegate wiggle; and the injector "click" test as you are going through that troubleshooting checklist.
Also, you can rent a 'noid light' injector tester for free from autozone, etc. and while there just rent the compression tester as well to get a good baseline of what your engine is doing.
Let us know how it goes after you've done the basics on the spark, fuel, air tests.

Thanks, Matt. Here's what I just posted on LotusNotes (in response to a suggestion that I start by accessing ElanScan), after an entire day spent going back and forth between the car and LEC. If you can, please let me know if you think I'm on to something with the injector(s), or not, and TIA! -

Unfortunately our only computer is my employer-issued laptop, and it won't let me download any third-party programs, so I'd have to add new laptop to my shopping list.

By process of elimination (pulling plug wires) I determined that my car is running on cylinders 2 and 4 only. The other two have great spark, so I must have a fuel issue. I read on LEC that the injectors on cylinders 1 and 3 (and 2 and 4) are wired together, so if one goes bad (goes to ground) it takes the other one with it. To tell whether the problem is with the injector(s) or whatever they are wired to (ECM/ECU?) Steve at SJ Motorsports in the UK suggested swapping the injectors around (if the problem changes cylinders then it's the injector) but if I'm going to go to that much trouble I might as well replace the injectors while I'm at it. So off to Rock Auto or eBay. SJ's price for a new injector set is $600 USD...

If it turns out I need a new ECM I don't know what I'm going to do, because as far as I can tell nobody on earth sells them...

[Sailbad_The_Sinner]

I would take your dealer's words with a large grain of salt:
AFAIK there are no cam bearings in the M100 engine, the cams run directly in the head and cap material!

Page 12 of the Engine section (EC) in the service manual clearly shows a part labeled Camshaft Bearing...

[RonR]

If it turns out I need a new ECM I don't know what I'm going to do, because as far as I can tell nobody on earth sells them...

Try putting Part Number A100E6533F into the SJ Sportscars parts finder, last time I checked they were located on earth

[TorqueHorse]

Excellent work!
Narrowing it down to the injectors is great progress. I will 9/10 guarantee it is one of the injectors that is at fault over the injector circuit in the ECU (but never fear the ECU is indeed still available too).
These next checks you can do without removing the injectors, just disconnecting the little electrical pigtail connectors at each injector.
A noid light is good to check if the connectors are getting the signal (to eliminate if it is the ECU or an actual injector). The one you can rent at autozone has two lights that will fit the connectors, so you can be testing both of the connectors on the circuit at the same time. Just cranking the car is good enough to see if you are getting signals. For belt and suspenders go ahead and check all the connectors are showing up on the noid lights as you'd expect.
Assuming signal is getting sent then you can test each injector.
Unplug the "bad" circuit injectors
Then do the "click" test by having the car on in ACC mode (just before you turn the key for ignition)
With your head in the engine bay, you can put your thumb on the throttle lever at the intake and if you give it throttle, you should hear a click for each injector that is getting a signal, and is working. The clicks may happen very close together so it can be hard to discern. Putting your ear and the back of a screwdriver that is on the injector you are trying to listen to can help.
This is a very easy test, so you can mix and match which injectors are connected and which aren't to see when you are hearing clicks or not, to do process of elimination to see which injector is sticking.
If you are having trouble, you can also use a 9v battery and some little alligator clip wires and when you complete a circuit on the injector, you should also hear a click.
OK, you should now be pretty confident if an injector is indeed bad, and which injector it is.

Next up trying to clean an injector.
You can actually remove the injectors relatively (compared to other jobs on the car) easily. All you have to do is remove the two bolts that are holding the electrical pigtail loom (to help it shift around as needed- but not removing it!), and the two that are holding the fuel rail into the intake manifold. And there are some dumb clips holding the injectors into the fuel rail. They sort of slide out of the way, usually with the persuasion of a screwdriver or two. Oh, and be sure to protect your valve cover during all this, or just remove it while you are doing the fuel rail bit. But that's it. No need to unscrew or remove anything else.
A bit of leverage with a screwdriver up on the fuel rail will pop the injectors out. The fuel rail stays in its place in the cradle of the intake, but will have enough play to fish the injectors out and also put them back in. Fuel will leak out, so putting down something absorbent first will help.
Anyways with your trouble injector out, try just shooting it with some top end cleaner. Youtube has plenty of advice on how to clean them on your own too. I will say this is where having that 9v battery can be helpful because you can put some fluid in the top of the injector and hit it with the battery spark a couple (or many) times to see if drops come out the nozzle end.
Popping all the injectors back into the intake and the fuel rail at the same time is a hassle, but it can be done.
Hope that helps before you start throwing the parts cannon at it.

[Sailbad_The_Sinner]

Thanks, Matt. I read on LEC that PL2-320 is the RJ equivalent of the stock injectors so in my haste I went ahead and ordered four of those. Hopefully They will arrive in time so I can get back on it this weekend. I tried doing the click test but couldn't hear a thing, so I figured I might as well just replace them.

While I have you, at the bottom of page 21 of Section EC of the service manual it says "unplug the electrical connector on each injector using a 14mm open ended spanner". Are they saying the U-shaped wire clips that look like a big staple don't have to be removed first? I don't follow.

I have your PM (thanks for that!) and will reply shortly. Thanks so much for all your good advice and suggestions!

[TorqueHorse]

Ahh well, I've not used those, but I've heard good things. It will make it easier to just swap and go without having to wait to clean them.

For that spanner thing, I think it just means "don't pull on the back of the electrical connector"
To get the little metal clip loose, needle nose pliers or a small pick can dislodge them. Usually, you only need to dislodge one side and then it will be loose enough to get the connector off. FYI, If you lose the clip, you can use a paperclip to fashion a replacement.

[Tuga2112]

I tried doing the click test but couldn't hear a thing,

if the car fires up at all, and you cant hear a click in any of the injectors, you must be doing the test wrong.

the way i do it, is with a long screwdriver touching the top of the injector and your hear at the other end. (i would suggest the pointy end to the injector.. ) have the ingition on, and pull the throtle a bit and as soon as the throtle moves, you will hear the click.

your chances of all injectors failing at the same time are lower than winning the lotery (even without buying a ticket) if they are all genuinely not working. then i would be looking at borrowing a ECU from someone to just rule that out.

[Sailbad_The_Sinner]

Thanks, Matt. I read on LEC that PL2-320 is the RJ equivalent of the stock injectors so in my haste I went ahead and ordered four of those. Hopefully They will arrive in time so I can get back on it this weekend. I tried doing the click test but couldn't hear a thing, so I figured I might as well just replace them.

Well, the RC PL2-320PH injectors turned out to be about 3/16ths shorter than my old ones, and the base is different, so that's $400 (and a day of my life) down the drain (they're non-returnable, exchangeable or refundable). I just ordered a remanufactured set on eBay that have the same part number as my old ones clearly visible, and from a Texas seller. They are returnable so I figured what do I have to lose at this point. I'll keep you posted...

[Sailbad_The_Sinner]

While waiting on the second set of injectors I bought this set of pliers on eBay, since I knew I'd have to hold the new injectors with something in order to work them up into the fuel rail. Worked like a charm and the padded handle and soft jaws kept me from scratching up either the injectors or the cam cover.

Car runs like a top again, amen; thanks for all the support and good counsel (until next time ). And oh - let me know if you're looking to pick up a set of RC PL2-320 injectors at a considerable discount...

-D.

[Sailbad_The_Sinner]

All of my attempts to attach photos here keep getting "blocked". Sorry...