new member running probs.

[birchy]

Hi just new to the forum, and Elans, never driven one before, just recently got an S2 elan as a project, and have spent quite a lot of time sorting a few little niggles out to get it through an MOT, which it now has, problem is with its running. i will explain what it does, and see if anyone can point me in the right direction of what its most likely to be.
It starts fine, hunts about a little on tickover till it gets a bit of warmth up, then settles to a steady tickover, it will rev up smoothly, no missing etc but does not seem to rev quickly, or be as perky as i would expect it to be,a bit sluggish to rev. no problems moving it about, just when you set off to drive, it hesitates a lot, jerking, it seems the more you try to get it going the less it wants to go, you can tease it up to drive it, as i did when i took it for test, but it only runs smooth when on the smallest of throttle openings, a bit more, and it starts hesitating, back off again, and its ok.
There is no engine light showing on the dash when it does it. I have cleaned the plugs, and had a poke and a prod, but dont know much about these, so these symptoms mat trigger someone to see what it could be. I am on a very small budjet with this car, and cannot afford to replace parts willy nilly just to eliminate them, such as leads coil packs etc, as surely if it runs without misfiring at tickover and when revving up they must be fine?
Sorry for a long post, but wanted to give as much info as poss in the first instance.
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. ideally a knowledgeable persons tel no would be ideal if poss, as its much easier to discuss a fault with a person directly if someone is willing to help.
Nick.

[Specky]

Firstly welcome to the LEC,

If you have a problems this is the place to ask.

Just a quicky, when you floor the car does she boost OK (0.5 Bar)

If not it may be this...

http://wikilec.9600.org/index.php/Relea ... _wastegate

Free to fix and a bad case will cause stutter and stalling.

It may be worth putting your location in your profile, some one may live close with Elanscan or be a dab hand with the M100.

Have you changed the Ignition coils?

TTFN

[saska]

It starts fine, hunts about a little on tickover till it gets a bit of warmth up, then settles to a steady tickover, it will rev up smoothly, no missing etc but does not seem to rev quickly, or be as perky as i would expect it to be,a bit sluggish to rev. no problems moving it about, just when you set off to drive, it hesitates a lot, jerking, it seems the more you try to get it going the less it wants to go, you can tease it up to drive it, as i did when i took it for test, but it only runs smooth when on the smallest of throttle openings, a bit more, and it starts hesitating, back off again, and its ok.
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. ideally a knowledgeable persons tel no would be ideal if poss, as its much easier to discuss a fault with a person directly if someone is willing to help.

First thing I'd check is vacuum hoses -- there are a few of them. One of them leaking would fit your symptoms.
Second would be base timing -- should be 16 degrees BTDC in Service Mode (See the Wiki)
Third would be an Elanscan -- as Dave suggests
Give us your location and someone may be able to lend you an elanscan cable or take a look.

[birchy]

Thanks for your reply, i have not changed the coil packs, as it is running, so i guess they are working? and they are not cheap.i have tried to get the turbo to go, but it splutters worse the more you try, and so you feel you are going to damage something, the boost guage moves a bit, but when you lift off the change up, you can hear a flappng lid sort of sound, which i was told is because it has not got the orig airbox on.
I am in Blackburn Lancs if there are any local experts?

[Specky]

Coil packs tend to show they're breaking up only when they're under aload, but you're bang on about the price, you can get cheaper alternatives should you require them at a later date.

Intresting what you say about the Turbo, I'd definitely do the wastegate wiggle.

I'm taking it the car passed it's emission test when it had it's MOT.

It the exhaust standard and is it blowing?

What have you got fitted in the way of induction and chips at the moment?

What is the Limited edition No of the car please?

TTFN

[birchy]

Hi thanks for the advice so far, am going to try the Wastegate wiggle! and see it that helps, in answer to the question,the car is ltd ed no 598, some info of which i found on this forum after i bought the car.
The car passed its emissions test, not sure by what margin, but it passed, the exhaust sounds very deep, and looks non std, but not having had one before i cannot be sure, i cant see a cat on it, but i am no expert. it does not sound like its blowing, but just a deep note to it.
No idea if there is any mods in the induction or a chip in the car, no way of knowing really.
Will try and get some time on the car in the next tew days, and get the wiggle done. with a bit of luck i will be lucky, and it will just be that.
thanks so far for your help. Nick.
PS, the car reg is M333 LAN with the rear plate having H R owen on it,which looks like an old, and possibly original no plate, does anyone know if this is the orig plate or a private one added later, or have any info on the cars prev history? perhaps this is not the area of the forum to start this post, but a PM with any info would be usefull, thanks.

[abmunro]

Hello Nick

Glad to see you made it at last.

Did you get Hall Sensor?

Tony

[racerstev]

Sounds like lack of fuel to me, maybe a clogged filter of bad pump? It shows all the signs..

[birchy]

Hi, yes tony, thanks for your help, i registered no problem, apperantly there was a temp glitch with the reg section, which was why, i have not bought a sensor yet, but have been in touch with the number you said.
thanks for your time and eforts, nick.
to reply to the other post, i wondered if fuel delivery could have something to do with it, but will try the wasegate wiggle first to see if that improves it, then proceed further if not.
thanks Nick.

[rip]

What is the Limited edition No of the car please?

I think the relevance of the question was that you pre-cat may be breaking up. This would restrict exhaust flow & therefore boost.
Only the kasst few S2s NEED their cat to pass the MOT because emissions standards changed part-way through S2 production.....so you may be able to remove it.
& I have heard of one breking up so much it fell apart & disappeared through the exhaust.

I'm not sure how much this would affect idling though. You could really do with another LECer to grab some data with Elanscan to see what all the sensors are reading.

[abmunro]

Nick purchasing Elanscan is always a good idea.

Borrowing one is even better.

There are members in thje North West

Tony

[birchy]

Hi all thanks for your advice so far, have done the wastegate wiggle, and although i have not taken the car out round the block, as its blocked in the garage at the moment, it does not seem to rev any quicker or feel any perkier, so doubt it would have had any effect, although the wastegate did seem a bit sticky. could anyone point me to the vacuum hoses someone noted that i could check as a no cost try,
also is it likely that one or both coil packs could be the prob even thogh the car revs smoothly, and ticksover ok, and is there any way of checking them, bearing in mind my limited mechanical expertees!
one more question is what are the symptoms or the cas/ hall sensor faults, bearing in mind i have no engine light showing when running, or when the hesitation is occurring.
As a possibility, are there any local experienced members in the Blackburn lancs area who could offer some phone advice to give me some pointers?
Thanks Nick.

[ashm]

The easy way to check if it's a vacuum leak is to pull one of the vacuum lines with the engine running and see how the revs change. The best ones to pull are probably on the back of the throttle body.
This sounds a bit like lack of fuel to me too though.
Adam

[birchy]

Hi all, have a bit more info on the cars running issues, did the wastegate wiggle, which did not seem seized, and made no dirrerence, but today amid the drizzle, had a local well established local tuning van round to see if he could find the fault. we did the paperclip test, and it showed a code 34, which is the map sensor, we tried checking a few things, inc the timing, which seemed to be firing at, or just before TDC,ie, miles out! the prob is, that the cas adjustment to correct the timing in the right direction is already as far as it will go, that is i cannot move the cas up any further to get any more timing adjustment, the tuner said he thinks the belt could be fitted wrong, and suggests getting it re set to get the timing nearer, then the cas adjustment should be somewhere in the middle of its slot giving ample adjustment either way?
My question is, does this sound correct, or feasible, before i go further spending on perhaps having this done, he said it might then sort out the othr fault with the MAP sensor if the timing is correct?

[Jackonicko]

Sounds to me as though it could be the CAS itself. (Broken spindle).

[tigerdog]

Either of the above could be correct. If the belt/camshaft/crankshaft relationship is off, those elements could be timed right relative to one another but out-of-time compared to the CAS; that would present the situation where all is OK but the static timing can't be adjusted. Jackonico could also be right: a defective CAS might not trigger in the right place. No way to tell, really except to investigate all alternatives. CAS is easier to test if you can borrow a known-good one and substitute. Your location isn't in your profile, so its hard to say if someone near you has one you could borrow.

The belt being off-time would only make sense if you had documentation of the timing belt being changed.

[birchy]

Hi agai n, the cas was making a difference to the timing and running when moved, so i guess the spindle could not be snapped, its just that the only way we could adjust the cas, was to make the timing further out, thus the engine speed slowed, and tickover reduced, as would be expected. I sort of understand the reasoning behind the advice i have been given, but as is probably usual with a car such as this, i put myself at the risk of being taken for a ride if i get nowhere, and end up with a reasonable bill as well.
Also as a side issue, the engine light was not on before the tuning man came, even though the car did not run well, but now its on all the time? the only thing that was done was to check a few things, do the paperclip test, and put new plugs in, any thoughts on that one.
I am in Blackburn Lancs, which i have said before on the post, but no one local has made any moves to offer help or advice, so i assume the is no one in this area close enough, or with the know how, that has read this.
The way i feel at the moment, 2.5k would take it away, and just take the hit on it, dont have enough knowledge or confidence to get stuck in myself, but cant afford to get ripped off trying to get it right.
Time will tell, the tests of owning a lotus i guess!
Thanks in advance, Nick.

[Dave Eds]

Put Blackburn in your profile Nick!

Tony mentioned the HES - did you change it, can we rule that out now?

[GeoffSmith]

Nick,

If it's flagged up a MAP error, then it's a major issue as the MAP sensor detects the air pressure before the engine starts and when running so it is very important that it is functioning correctly. It could just be a bad connection however so check that first and try and get the CEL light to go out.

If you weren't in service mode when you checked the timing (check the Wiki for the correct procedure) then my thinking is that the MAP sensor error could take the timing all over the place. If you want an ElanScan interface to help see what the MAP problem is, I have some more hardware coming in this week and I will put you top of the list.

Geoff

[birchy]

Hi, to answer 2 points, i have not replaced the hall sensor, as i was told the light would come on if that was a poss fault, which it has not done untill now,
Also i did have the car in service mode to do the timing, i followed the guide to the letter.
thanks Nick.