Water temp/oil pressure

[fillpoke]

My Elan is off the road for the winter but gets a drive of 10 miles or so every couple of weeks (weather permitting) just to keep things turning. After the drive today I noticed the temperature gauge reading quite high on idling (it's always on the first gradation when running) and going even higher until the fan cut in. It then fell back to the middle gradation before climbing again until the fan cut in once more. The oil pressure also looked a bit low to me. I've posted pictures so you can see what I mean. What do you think? Should I be worried are these normal readings?

[lotusflasherman]

What's the mileage and what oil are you running? Oil pressure looks a bit low to me...

My SE runs @ 5 bar on tickover cold or hot... I'm on Millers 10W/60 and car has done 49k miles so that's the sort of reading I'd expect..

op display.jpg

I've also fitted a 89°C thermostat to keep the engine at a more suitable temp for UK use, particularly in winter when heater is needed for windscreen clearing and survival of occupants so I'm running similar temp to you.

Did a bit of measuring using a thermocouple and digital thermometer to make sense of the rather useless graduations on the Temp Gauge and you may find this useful....

temp.jpg

[Tuga2112]

My Elan is off the road for the winter but gets a drive of 10 miles or so every couple of weeks (weather permitting) just to keep things turning. After the drive today I noticed the temperature gauge reading quite high on idling (it's always on the first gradation when running) and going even higher until the fan cut in. It then fell back to the middle gradation before climbing again until the fan cut in once more. The oil pressure also looked a bit low to me. I've posted pictures so you can see what I mean. What do you think? Should I be worried are these normal readings?

referring the temperature no need to worry. My readings are exactly the same. and trust me i keep an eye on it because i had some earthing problems on the fans when i bought the car and i know for a fact that my fix is not the best practice approach. although it never failed me

[Rambo]

Oil pressure does look very low

[HJ2]

Indeed. I would suggest a bit thicker oil next oilchange and keep an eye on it!

[Simon_P]

Min oil pressure at idle is 0.35 bar - while driving 1.4 to 7.0 bar.

Thick oil and high pressure aren't necessarily a good thing.

[HJ2]

I second that, but neither is a low oil pressure. If the thicker oil gets you within specified bandwidth, that's a good thing imho
That is: after you checked oil pump & pickup filter for cloacking & wear.
So if you mean it's better to eliminate root cause... I'm with you.
If it is wear. I still think thicker oil would help, but are happy to convinced otherwise.

[Rusty Wishbone]

The temperature gauge behaviour is what I would expect at idle. When you drive it, does the needle stay down in the first quarter of the gauge? If so, this sounds perfect to me. At some point in the future, you might replace the thermostat as a precautionary job - it is nice and easy to do.

[dapinky]

The oil pressure isn't far off what I see on my car.........

......but I've done a tad over 130K miles.

I don't think that it's a huge problem on it's own (as others have said, there must be a reason for it being at that number - maybe wear, maybe thin oil, maybe just an inacurate gauge), but keep an eye (and ear) out for any sudden changes.

[Rambo]

Mine usually sits at about 5 bar on the red one (117k)

Might take it for a blast today if the roads are open again after the flooding and report back on op at idling, fully warm and on boost

[rip]

I agree with the above that I don't see anything to be concerned about.

Temperature usually sits at 1/4 while driving but when idling it climbs to the 3/4 mark before the fans cut in & bring it down again. Most of us start to panic the first time we see this.

Oil pressure can vary. It will be lower when the oil is thinner (hot, a thinner oil or if it has broken up through old age). It is also lower at idle.
The gauges in our Elans are not very accurate either, but are a good guide. Corrosion on the contacts is a factor here. What reads 3 bar in mine may be 5 bar is somebody else's.
I read in a Vauxhall manual a while back that low oil pressure at idle in a higher mileage engine is not a cause for concern. Sudden pressure loss while driving is entirely different. Ok, so that was Vauxhall manual but engines are not that different.
When you next run your Elan, bring the engine revs up to about 3000rpm. It should take about a second or two for the pressure to rise. It will fall back again when you let the engine idle.

[Rambo]

Sudden pressure loss while driving is entirely different

I agree. Very serious

I took the red one for a blast and oil pressure was very good. 2.5 bar at idle (engine warm), 5 bar or just under when driving

[daveiow]

Sudden pressure loss while driving is entirely different

I agree. Very serious

I took the red one for a blast and oil pressure was very good. 2.5 bar at idle (engine warm), 5 bar or just under when driving

My 91 SE 67k miles is about the same as Rambo's
When first purchased I put some Gucci Mobil fully synthetic in it and it sounded like a bag of nails, I took it to Sportomotive for a service and Cos gave me an old fashioned look when he heard it, changed it for whatever they buy in bulk for the age of the car and it is now as sweet as a nut again

[Artaban]

Would the oil pickup in the sump effect oil pressure?

I cleaned mine out when I did the suspension rebuild and I'm currently at just over 5 bar at idle on a warmish engine (temp gauge has moved to usual position but only a few miles covered). I use Castrol Edge 10/60 and have done just over 144k miles. Trouble is I didn't really take a note of what the oil pressure gauge was reading before I cleaned out the oil pick up. Engine is quieter though.
Temperature gauge was similar to yours before I installed the new radiator, now its under the quarter mark.

Andy

[Simon_P]

HJ2,

Yes fixing the root cause is always best.

Thicker oils are OK for noisy tappets and leaks but not sure what other benefits there are. Yes 60 oil will give higher pressure but what advantage is that?

[lotusflasherman]

HJ2,

Yes fixing the root cause is always best.

Thicker oils are OK for noisy tappets and leaks but not sure what other benefits there are. Yes 60 oil will give higher pressure but what advantage is that?

All oils get thinner as they get hotter but a higher second number means that oil gets 'less thin' at 100°C than an oil with a lower second number. It means it behaves like an oil of that particular viscosity at 100°C but it will still be much thinner than when cold. The first figure shows the viscosity when cold so that's the guide to whether an oil is 'thick' or 'thin' .

So 10W/60 isn't a thicker oil when compared to a 20W/50 oil. It's a thinner cold oil and a 'less thin' hot oil. Compare it to a 10W/30 and it's the same when cold but considerably 'less thin' when at 100°C and higher oil pressure does a better job of keeping the crankshaft journals away from the main and big end bearings when you're producing peak power.

[fillpoke]

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice. My car is a 91 with 88000 miles and a full service history. From what I'm reading I don't think I need worry about the water temperature. As regards the oil I'm presently running with 5 / 30 as I figured a thinner oil would get to the turbo quicker and hence be beneficial. Seems I'm probably wrong. I'll try the thicker oil as suggested here and see what happens.

[Rambo]

Filipoke - in case you're wondering what viscosity of engine oil was preffered for the M100 when it rolled out the the it was 10W/30. An alternative viscosity was 15W/40. Or even 5W/50 Mobil 1 rally formula

[Simon_P]

Lotusflasherman,

I understand the viscosity ratings but still not convinced that thicker oil and higher pressure are good.

Higher pressure correlates to increased work and reduced flow rate. A 30 grade oil maintains the bearing film thickness while the oil also has to lubricate the cylinder walls piston rings and valve guides as well as cool the pistons. There is no pressure there and a 60 oil isn't going to get to places that were designed for a 30 oil to reach.

[lotusflasherman]

Lotusflasherman,

I understand the viscosity ratings but still not convinced that thicker oil and higher pressure are good.

Higher pressure correlates to increased work and reduced flow rate. A 30 grade oil maintains the bearing film thickness while the oil also has to lubricate the cylinder walls piston rings and valve guides as well as cool the pistons. There is no pressure there and a 60 oil isn't going to get to places that were designed for a 30 oil to reach.

Think you are still missing the point that a 10w/60 oil is still 'thinner' at 100°C, when it behaves like a SAE60 oil at 100°C, than it is when cold and behaves as a SAE10 oil, as does a 10W/30 oil. If your argument about 'not getting to places' was valid neither oil would adequately lubricate the engine when cold.

The higher viscosity rating is for the oil at 100°C but oil near the top piston ring and around the turbo can be much higher than that. I've also fitted a 89°C thermostat so my engine runs hotter than with the standard thermostat as I think that's more suitable for UK, particularly at this time of year.

I do conceded the 'less thin' 10W/60 oil will take more energy to move around the engine and hence absorb a small amount of power and marginally increase fuel consumption... but some guys are talking about fitting a 100 amp alternator to drive stereo amplifers that will take more; and air-con takes considerably more!

Unfortunately there is no consensus of opinion from the oil companies...

Opie oils say 'NO' .... https://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-articles/10w-60-oil.pdf
but
Shell recommends Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60 lubematch.shell.co.uk/gb/en_GB/equipment/elan_se_s2_EFt8Pdzl3
and
Castrol recommends Edge 10W/60 via the Halfords Oil Selector.

The Millers 10W/60 in my car was put in by Kelvedon Motors and is now overdue a change by date, but not mileage, so I've got some decisions to make too....