First Elanscan

[Axel-F]

Hello,

I did my first scan today, and of course I have e few questions !!

Here is the scan :

Test 2011 03 12.zip

- First point is coolant temperature, fan switch on when temp gauge is over 3/4, and switch off when it is back to 3/4, I had always find that to high... so I did check which temperature it was on the scan, seem that fan switch on over 112°C, and stop when back to 101,8°C, is it normal temperature for switching the fan ??


- Is the power measure accurate ? I didn't push the car, no more than 5000 revs, and see that max power is around 105 hp, it does seem low to me... I will try to push a little harder another day.


- And is somebody could have a look at the scan and tell me if he did notice something I should take care about (or confirm everything is Ok) would be great !!

This elanscan seem to be a great tool !
Thanks !!

[saska]

First point is coolant temperature, fan switch on when temp gauge is over 3/4, and switch off when it is back to 3/4, I had always find that to high... so I did check which temperature it was on the scan, seem that fan switch on over 112°C, and stop when back to 101,8°C, is it normal temperature for switching the fan ?

Yes. About 110°C is normal for fans kicking in. You can get lower temperature switches from rodney dickman

Is the power measure accurate ? I didn't push the car, no more than 5000 revs, and see that max power is around 105 hp, it does seem low to me... I will try to push a little harder another day.

The power is a calculated value so not terribly accurate. Looks like you were making 105Hp @ 4800RPM in 4th @ 62% throttle so seems reasonable.

And is somebody could have a look at the scan and tell me if he did notice something I should take care about (or confirm everything is Ok) would be great !!

The only thing of note is the Spark Advance. At idle it looks like 9-14° BTDC (should be 16°BTDC) - the other point is the variation in the spark advance. This is most obvious at idle and in your case it is varying by 5-6° whereas 2-3° is more normal. Whether this is slack in the CAS or some other reason -- others would be better able to comment. If it were my car I'd put it in service mode and put a timing light on it and see if there was 'wobble' or whether the strobe was solid.
There is 1 knock event but no timing retard was applied so I wouldn't worry about just 1 event.

[Axel-F]

Thanks Tony, for your feed back,
So you confirm Hp seems reasonable (and calculated) and temperatures are normal, that's great, I will see later with the lower temperature switch, if it is better for the engine, probably not for the fan !

For the sparks advance, I will not be abble to make further enquiry myself (no timing light...) but I wonder how do you see it, I tried to make a curve Sparks adv / engine speed / Throttle, but it not very clear ...


That said the car seem to be working fine (may be it could work even better ?!), do you think it could damage something ?

[saska]

For the sparks advance, I will not be abble to make further enquiry myself (no timing light...) but I wonder how do you see it, I tried to make a curve Sparks adv / engine speed / Throttle, but it not very clear ...

The first image is Time vs Engine Speed (RPM) so you can see when it is idling (just under 1000 RPM)
The second image is Time vs Spark Advance and you can see the variation in spark advance when idling between the red lines 6-7°. I've ignored the first 500secs as it was warming up.
The third image shows Time vs Spark Advance on my S2. You'll note that the variation at idle is much less 2-3° and also that it is around the 15-16° mark whereas your scan shows the idle spark advance varying around 8-14°

That said the car seem to be working fine (may be it could work even better ?!), do you think it could damage something ?

Doubt it would damage anything. I'd think there is play in the CAS somewhere but could be just normal wear and tear. Think about the only thing you might want to do is get the base timing set at an average of 16°BTDC
See your friendly local WikiLEC for details on how to do this properly

[Axel-F]

Thanks Saska thats very clear!
but setting timing seem a little too complex for me... and I do not have tools,
so as it is running well for the moment, I think I will wait next services to have it checked.
I will do another scan in a few weeks to check if it is stable or getting worth..

[matts1972]

Can you really tell from Elanscan if the timing is correct? I would imagine that the ECU always reports ignition around 16 degrees when idling, even if the base timing is in fact way off. Some of my own scans show timing around 16 degrees but on some it is also around 14 degrees. So both pictures shown here seem to be possible without changing the timing, and base timing might not be that relevant for Elanscan's output after all.

Cheers,
Matthias

[saska]

Can you really tell from Elanscan if the timing is correct?

Dunno to be honest but I've looked at a lot of scans and the ECU doesn't seem to adjust it if it is wrong.

I would imagine that the ECU always reports ignition around 16 degrees when idling, even if the base timing is in fact way off.

Not in my experience.

Some of my own scans show timing around 16 degrees but on some it is also around 14 degrees. So both pictures shown here seem to be possible without changing the timing, and base timing might not be that relevant for Elanscan's output after all.

14 - 16 degrees isn't much at all -- well within the play in the CAS I'd think.
Putting the car into Service Mode disables all the sensors and ECU parameter modifiers but my view is that a fairly healthy car in normal mode will report it's base idle and spark advance pretty accurately to Elanscan.
JonT's recent scan is reporting 6 BTDC to Elanscan at idle so the ECU isn't modifying it to read 16.

[rip]

Can you really tell from Elanscan if the timing is correct?

Dunno to be honest but I've looked at a lot of scans and the ECU doesn't seem to adjust it if it is wrong.

I would imagine that the ECU always reports ignition around 16 degrees when idling, even if the base timing is in fact way off.

The ECU needs baselines to work from. Setting the base timing to 16 degrees btdc gives it this baseline. (it must be in service mode to stop the ECU compensating for any changes you make).
Not all Elans like 16 btdc either. Mine ran really poorly when set to this. Exhaust was very sooty, overrun (exhaust popping) was very common, engine spluttered to life (which I quite like) but I got overboost at about 4100rpm which was almost undriveable
I was getting almost no value from my boost either: I had to look at the gauge to confirm that the turbo was running.

I tried setting my timing by stopwatch: Find a straight, flat section of road & do controlled accelerations. I did 30-70 in 4th. Wind the timing forward gradually until Elanscan tells you that you have encountered knock, then back the timing off slightly until knock is no longer registered. The most common conditions for knock are at low rpm/maximum throttle in a high gear & also when the turbo is providing boost.

I then checked my Elan's base timing to see what I ended up with: 32 btdc.
I thought I must have done something very wrong to come up with that but I've re-checked it on more than 1 occasion.

[Axel-F]

Hello,
Did a new scan yesterday, and notice that several knock were recorded, and also that retard was applied :

The car is working fine, but I wonder what does cause the knocks and if it is an issue the retard is applied... I suspect it is something with spark advance and/or base timing ...
Any information is welcome !!!

Here is the full scan :

Test 2011 09 17.zip

Thanks !

[saska]

The car is working fine, but I wonder what does cause the knocks and if it is an issue the retard is applied... I suspect it is something with spark advance and/or base timing ...

I've looked at the scan and the first (largest) spark retard of 1.2° occurs at 591.6 secs when the knock counter goes from 4 to 5.
The only other events in the scan of note, at that time, are that the Air Fuel Mode goes to Rich and Closed Loop goes off.
Other than those the scan looks fine.
Have you put the car in Service Mode and checked base timing yet ?

[Axel-F]

Thanks Tony for you feed back !

...Have you put the car in Service Mode and checked base timing yet ?...

Not yet as I don't have the tools (flashlight) nor the space to do it, but the car will go for servicing in a few weeks and I would like to tell the mechanics what to check ! (so obviously first base timing !)

...The only other events in the scan of note, at that time, are that the Air Fuel Mode goes to Rich and Closed Loop goes off.
Other than those the scan looks fine...

What does that mean, is it normal or does it tell that something else may be wrong ?

[saska]

Not yet as I don't have the tools (flashlight) nor the space to do it, but the car will go for servicing in a few weeks and I would like to tell the mechanics what to check ! (so obviously first base timing !)

Think doing any more scans or anything else is a waste of time until base timing and setting idle is done.
Suggest you print off instructions for both from the Wiki for your mechanic.

[Axel-F]

Yen, thanks Tony, I think you are right, will do that, and redo a scan after base timing is done!