Poorly Elan - Need advice - alternator woe

[petestubbs]

I have a problem with my alternator in that it has cooked my battery!
It seems that the regulator has gone and it is therefore putting too much voltage through to the battery.

My question(s) are;

1. Where is the regulator for the alternator? Is it part of the alternator or somewhere more easily accessible?

2. If it is on the alternator, how do you get the alternator off? A friend thinks that I would need to take the drive shaft out through the FOS wheel arch?

3. Whilst checking the driveshaft assembly, it seems that I need a new CV joint bush on the FOS wheel, are these replaceable? If so, how do you get it off? Is it a Lotus part or is there a cheaper alternative?

4. Is the alternator/regulator renewable or reconditionable or do I need a new one? If so - again - do I need a genuine Lotus part or is there a cheaper alternative

5. Is the drive shaft Isuzu (like the engine) or Lotus? Just in case I need to replace bits of this - (if it does need to come out as for question 2).

Sorry for so many questions but your assistance would be very gratefully received, I would like it more if someone told me I can hit it with a hammer and it would work again, but I doubt I would be that lucky!

I've gone from a possible bad connection to
a possible new battery
to a possible new alternator
to both a new battery and alternator
to a new battery, a new alternator, a new CV bush, and hours of drive shaft dismantling, so any good news would be welcomed!

Just call me lucky!

Thanks in advance - Pete.

[GeoffSmith]

The regulator is in the alternator.

There is an alternator going on eBay and it is from the original manufacturer rather than a cheaper and troublesome reconditioned one. Candles is the alternator king - look for his thread and tales of woe.

Geoff

[DaveT]

Hi Lucky

I have just got one of the Nippon Denso alternators of the chap who is selling them on e-bay. Although he has put the price up they are still a good buy.


David

[ESM]

I've got the same problem, although its intermittent at the moment and the battery is still ok. The alternator that's giving up was from JapSpares and isn't very old - I certainly don't recommend them. I took an old alternator to a local autoelectric place and they are going to recondition that. Hopefully they'll do a better job than JapSpares.... If you do get it reconditioned tell the autoelectrician that its the same as an Isuzu Trooper 2.6i (petrol)'s alternator - only the pulley is different.

The alternator can be removed without taking too much apart - at least if you don't have air conditioning (maybe if you do as well but I don't know). See instructions here. I don't it do it exactly as described there myself, I take off the power steering fluid reservoir instead of disconnecting the pipe from the PAS pump. I don't take off the wheel either. Wear some safety glasses or something like that, otherwise you get a load of rust in the eyes.

[petestubbs]

Thanks all and especially ESM,

That's a great help as I thought I was going to be paying for the drive shaft to be removed (phew).

Thanks again.

Pete.

[Candles]

Hi lucky!

Just to add to the other comments to reinforce: I had to change a JapSpares alternator after 1 year. Don't buy one. Don't even buy a new cheap one anywhere as they are pattern rubbish that won't last. The job of changing the alternator is far more effort than the cost of a properly rebuilt decent alternator that will last.

I removed my alternator slightly differently: Crossmember off from underneath, exhaust section off. Undo all bolts from above and below. Remove alternator through aperture created by exhaust. I also took the wheel off to access the lower bolt head (IIRC). I can't remember if I took the oil filter off, but I'm guessing I didn't as I can't remember the vicious swearing that would have occurred as the oil ran into my eyes!

It is a pain in the arse as getting to the bolts is tricky, hence ESM removing the PAS reservoir. I managed to access most from below and had the assistance of a somewhat smaller-handed wife to do the top bolt!

Don't just change the regulator either as it isn't worth the effort. You need a high quality, rebuilt unit that has been bench tested. Nothing else is worth the skin on your fingers for two installs!

My advice on the battery front is simply to try one from your other car to ascertain if that is the problem.

Candles.

[theelanman]

Ive just had exactly the same problem with my 65 MGB......
ok its a dynamo rather than an alternator but the symptoms and result are the same....

firstly how old is the battery??....
had you had it tested before any of this???.....
if the battery has had a cell collapse then the alternator with throw out more current to try to recharge the battery....however if a cell has gone this is impossible to achieve but the alternator cant tell and trys even harder........
if you can get your hands on a new battery and put it in I'd try that first if I were you......put the new battery in and then test the charge from the alternator......if its back to normal then its your battery collapsing......
if its still charging at 17v then the alternator has gone......
its easier and cheaper to do the battery test and trial first.....also if the battery has a guarantee then if your alternator does toast it then its covered..........
just a thought before you spend £££££££'s on a new alternator
cheers
G

[petestubbs]

What an excellent piece of money saving advice!

I did'nt know that and it is certainly something to remember for the future.

unfortunatley too late for me this time round, the car is langiushing in a garage somewhere whilst the alternator is being checked to see if it can be refurbished <blast!>

[petestubbs]

It just gets worst!

Well first the good news;

Front Brake disks £13.85 + VAT each
Front Brake pads £7.88 + VAT for a pair

Part numbers 104720021 and 101720062 respectively from Euro car parts (www.eurocarparts.com)

The receipt also shows a tridex number (whatever that is) for each part;
disks (tridex) ATE 24012401151
pads (tridex) PAS FDD173

A bargain methinks!

Now the bad news;

What went from dodgy battery etc etc to, new alternator, new battery, new disks, new pads, new CV gaitor boot has got worse;

I have had the alternator off, had it re-furbished and a new regulator fitted. I have then had a new battery fitted (as the old alternator cooked the last one).
Whilst I was there I've had the brakes and CV boot done as well.

I picked the car up on Thursday and, despite all the tests showing that the alternator was kicking out the correct voltage, on my way home the battery light came on and I noticed that the car voltmeter had flew off the scale, the next day the (new) battery was flat again.
So I am right back at square one (but considerably poorer)?
Oh, and to top that, on that fated journey, I passed an Elise, I flashed him naturaly, now my light pods are stuck up and I have no dipped beam!
Checked the fuses, one of the lights and one of the pods blown, both replaced - neither work?

My mechanic who did the work is now on holiday so I have been unable to give him the good news - but, what the Hell is wrong with my car!!?

[lotuska]

I had the same problem with my alternator.

It would worked fine from cold, you could run for hours no problem.

If you then switched it off and then back on it would over voltage.

Took it to be re-conditioned and they said nothing was wrong with it, fitted it back onto the car same thing, took it back and said I wanted it reconditioned anyway.

Got it back...and guess what same thing, however this time I took the car back and got them to remove it and fix it...all for no extra cost.

They said that there was a fault but not in the regulator.

[gmacz]

Try connecting an "earth" direct to the alternator.You can use "jump leads" or just a wire bolted direct to the alternator from an earth point.See if this makes a difference.Yours Gmacz

[GeoffSmith]

They said that there was a fault but not in the regulator.

My arse!

I strongly suspect that inferior specification devices are often used in reconditioned alternators to keep costs down. Commercial components are rated to an operating temperature of +70°C, industrial components to +85°C and extended/military components to +125°C. You can get devices which are ostensibly identical and will behave exactly the same up to say 85°C but one (invariably the cheaper one) will fail or go out of specification at higher temperatures.

When the engine stops, the alternator fan isn't cooling the regulator pack. I think it is likely that the temperature goes a lot higher than other cars when the engine stops due to the enclosed position of the alternator in the Elan.

Given how difficult it is to change the alternator and the possibility of damaging the battery, headlamp module etc. I wouldn't risk a reconditioned alternator of dubious pedigree.

Geoff

[petestubbs]

Geoff,

I take on board what you are saying about reconditioned units.

Mine was done by local alternator specialists, it was my alternator that was reconditioned by them in situ and a new regulator bolted on the back, so if it is the case that it still is the alternator they can have it back.

I naturally assumed that having replaced that bit, it must be something else? Are you saying that it could still be this despite it only lasted for just over 5 minutes?

More to the point, I thought the lights blowing was a coincidence, just bad luck, but your thread indicates that the alternator could have done this also? <Possibility of damaging the battery, headlamp module etc>.Is that what you are saying or have I just misread it??

[GeoffSmith]

Pete,

It sounds suspiciously like the regulator pack has gone again.

An alternator overvoltage can take the headlights out, as they're running pretty hot anyway and the extra power they have to dissipate when the volts go high can cause them to act like fuses. Candles had his lights & module go U/S when his alternator went - his module was OK but the lights wouldn't move. It turned out that the module requires at least one headlamp to be operational in order to work. I have seen another module with components utterly destroyed and it's possible that could have been by overvoltage.

Geoff

[petestubbs]

thanks for your quick response.

So if it is the regulator (again), and I replace it (again), what do I need to do to get the lights back? Ive changed the fuses?

[John_W]

Pete,
You might have to change the bulbs. At least you should check them to verify they haven't blown.
John

[GeoffSmith]

You might have to change the bulbs.

That's all Candles did in the end.

[petestubbs]

Ok, fixed the lights, (it was the bulbs not the fuses) this apparently stopped the pods going down!??

Anyway new bulbs, pods working, alternator removed and re-checked by an alternator specialist, new regulator - all done and running well, until……..

………..the other day, driving along, nothing excessive, quite heavy traffic in fact - battery light comes on, voltage dial goes off the scale, I cook another battery!
The next morning apart from needing a jump start it ran fine, volts behaving themselves etc?

The following day (this morning), went to jump the battery (as is becoming a habit now) but when I connected the power unit I heard a whirring sound and later found it to be the headlight pods raising!

So to summarise, I’ve put power to the battery, but before even turning on the ignition, the light pods have both risen, (no lights on – just the pods), so I turn on the ignition, start the engine, voltage fine, both pods still in the air, turn on the headlights, both bulbs work, turn them off only one pod goes down!
I wound the faulty pod down manually and now I only have one pod popping up with the lights, although the light in the faulty pod comes on and the fuses are fine?

Also over the last couple of days I have found that the radio cuts out when I break even slightly heavily – on one occasion it stayed off whilst the car was stationary at lights and only came back on when I pulled away, (although on most occasions it comes on after I have finished breaking)? It is not the radio itself as all the lights etc stay on so it is more probably the speakers??

So, apart from a poltergeist, what is happening to my car!!?

Answers on a postcard………….

[GeoffSmith]

There are so many inter-related things happening that I'd suspect the earthing. Best way is to use a voltmeter from the battery negative to earth straps / studs / metalwork: Anything other than a few hundred millivolts is suspect.

Best of luck!

Geoff

[petestubbs]

Thanks Geoff,

Is there a particularly dodgy one that I should check first?

Do you have a list (or is there a list somewhere) where all the earthing points are on the vehicle?

It a strange thing, I jumped the car yesterday, (as stated) from the power pack left it running for a good half hour whilst playing around with the lights etc - then drove to the Gym and an hour later on to work (about 6 miles).
9 hours later - flat battery - jump start.
Drove it directly home, lights and windscreen wipers on and this morning - some 14 hours later - started first time!!!

Confused?@?!!