PCE Removal....heeeeeeellllllllp!

[MPx]

I made the rash decision to try to fit my new Piper exhaust today. After liberal use of WD40 and a fair bit of grunting I managed to get the old exhaust off to the PCE (incl the three studs!). But, I need to get the PCE off too and things got a lot more tricky at that stage. I got 4 of the 5 bolts out of the front shield, but I cant budge the top/front one that seems to bolt directly into the turbo. Levering the shield forward a bit, I could get at 5 of the 6 PCE to Turbo bolts/nuts....but to no real effect. I've got one out and snapped another. The two other bolts and the two nuts wont budge at all. Although I'm working comfortably under a 4 post lift....its still not really possible to get at the things with any degree of leverage. I was wondering if I'd be better off removing one big piece (by splitting the manifold off the head) and then splitting turbo and PCE off the car....or weather that would just invite a whole heap more trouble with broken studs in the head etc.??

Not sure what to try next - except maybe winch it on a trailer and take it to the professionals ! Waddya reckon?

[RichardK]

Hi,

The Piper is a great exhaust you'll be well pleased with it.....

Now almost at the end of my turbo upgrade I can type with a little more authority!!! To do the upgrade I took off everything in a oner between block and exhaust- you have to loosen off the power steering pump to get at the left hand manifold nut but all the manifold nuts came off without any bother at all. I sheared all but two of my heat shield bolts though when I took them off before I lifted the whole thing up and out. It is not that heavy although it is really tight for space. I did manage to get to all the heat shield bolts though - the 10mm ratchet spanner worked a treat shearing everything in sight!.

I have not separated off my PCE ...it looks a bugger!

If you are only going to remove the PCE then this may be the way to go, however with the new exhaust are you not going to port the wastegate too? you are almost there!

Keep at it.... plenty of skinned knuckles and progress has been slow at times but worth it.

[MPx]

Thanks Richard....most encouraging. Well done to you on making it with your car. I'll have a look at it from the top to see if the manifold studs/nuts look as rust-welded as the bolts underneath. From your experience, that does look favourite to me at this stage.

You said you got the heat shield off of yours before extraction. Will I need to do that to get the rest out in one piece or can I leave that last bolt alone until I get the whole lot out??

Not sure what's involved with "porting the waste gate". Sounds like a sensible thing to do to avoid creep....but I'll need to find someone to do it for me. Maybe if/when I do get everything out, I'll take the bits to South West Lotus or similar to port the wastegate and drill/tap the stuff that will need doing by then. Anyone know a good place for this type of work (preferably in the South West)?

[GeoffSmith]

Not sure what's involved with "porting the waste gate". Sounds like a sensible thing to do to avoid creep....but I'll need to find someone to do it for me. Maybe if/when I do get everything out, I'll take the bits to South West Lotus or similar to port the wastegate and drill/tap the stuff that will need doing by then. Anyone know a good place for this type of work (preferably in the South West)?

Maybe a BOLLECKS meeting in my garage? Pinky, PaulW and I have all done it and it isn't really that difficult once you've got it out of the car. I've e-mailed you my collection of pictures as they may hep you.

[RichardK]

As long as the car is not the daily driver then absolutely do not go with the trucking off to the "experts". I am in no way a mechanic and as long as there is plenty of cups of tea then YOU can do it.....may take a bit of time but hey there you go.......all the heat shield bolts were assessible - I had all the sheilds off beofre I lifted out the Turbo + Manifold+PCE - A ratchet 10mm spanner pretty much sorted all of them ( although I do now have a PCE with lots of sheared bolts).

Even the LGM turbo upgrade did not come with how to do it manual, I thought I was going to have the car ready for last sunday but Itl ooks as though another week ( three hours per day) will have it sorted.....

The manifold nuts came out with a half inch socket set and a 18" bar. TBH they were really easy......compared to torquing up the water lines and indexing the turbo....

If Geoff and Dave P and the guys are offering then I would jump at the chance.....

Now I just have to get that Piper back on.....




Rich

[MPx]

Thanks for the offer Geoff...yes please, assuming I get the thing off in the end...I'll be in touch to bring it up.

Yeh Rich...the car's for fun only so no problem with it being off the road for a while... I'll keep plugging away for now and see how much else I can break! I love buying tools and looks like I might have a chance to get some more at the Malvern show this w/e. I need to get a set of rachet spanners (got sockets, rings and open, but not rachet!). I also think I'll try and get some hex sockets. All mine are 12 sided and I've found they can damage the bolt heads under extreme pressure so I think hexes will give better grip....I've got a a nice little list coming together!

[ksgrimsr]

The Piper is a great exhaust you'll be well pleased with it.....

I installed the Piper setup (including PCE) a little while back and it is indeed a really nice setup. Since you're about to install yours I thought I'd share a little tidbit that might be helpful to you.

I found that taking the old exhaust off comes apart the easiest going from the back and working forward. The studs on the front portion of the exhaust are angled in such a way that it's nice to have the maneuverability of sliding stuff back and out of the way to clear them. With the stock exhaust the connection between the muffler and the exhaust line going to the cat is angled, so they come apart allowing the muffler to be pulled forward off the hanger, etc.

However, when putting the PIper exhaust together, I found that reversing that procedure isn't quite ideal since the connection between the muffler and the exhaust pipe is at the straight section of pipe leaving inadequate maneuverability to put the muffler on last. Fortunately, the Piper setup doesn't use studs fixed into the plumbing and instead uses bolts/nuts so the clearance problem at the front is not an issue.

So, I found that disassembly of the old setup worked best going from the back and working forward, but assembly of the new system was not the reverse and instead the new assembly worked nicely for me also starting from the back and working forward.

I'm sure there are a number of approaches to simplify install, but hopefully you find this tidbit useful when you're ready for the rest of the project after you finish struggling with some of your PCE bolts.

Knut

[MPx]

Thanks Knut....v helpfuil. My old exhaust was sufficiently "self bonded" that I was never going to be able to separate out the Cat from the centre pipe from the rear section - although had all the joins been a bit less rust welded I'm sure you are correct. In practice the pipe had 7/8ths fractured just near the rear join so just cut it there and took off the rear section, then split it at the J-pipe and dropped the cat/middle togther...then the J-pipe...but sadly still not got the pre cat off! It will come off this week tho!!!

Will rebuild as you advise when I get that far.

[RichardK]

My piper came with excellent printed instructions which fortunately for me included really clear pictures and the order in which to assemble. It took me just over an hour.

[dapinky]

Greetings from somewhere in wet, cold, rainy Eastern Europe........

It ain't difficult, just time consuming - have a look at the wiki bit on the turbo re-build - I included the bits about the broken studs on the PCE and how to remove the manifold (definately the way to go - I've done 4 now, and wouldn't consider not taking it out of the car!)

[muley]

Just finished re-installing the turbo today. Getting the manifold off was easy in my case - the nuts / studs weren 't particularly tight. all the other parts of the job were a total b&tch!

Note that the manifold studs have a torx style head

Jim

[MPx]

Well plenty of proof available that the job's perfectly possible then despite my attempts to show otherwise!

A week's worth of daily WD40 squirts has allowed me to get both the lower heat shield and the old Pre Cat off.....wooooppppeeeee! Euphoria was dampened having spent half an hour drilling a hole in the one broken stud left when the so called extractor broke of in the hole first turn - exactly as predicted by Geoff! So time to stop and think that through again!

In fact I'm still weighing up whether to attack the top bit from the manifold. That's obviously necessary to do the wastegate port.....but if I could get that one stud out.....I could just put the new stuff on in an hour or so and go driving instead of all the grief that's bound to ensue. I know I'll try to do it all it in the end, but its really tempting to bail out!

[dapinky]

The studs are made of an extremely hard grade of metal - I started off with drilling them until i got fed up with destroying so many brand new (and good quality, not Sunday Market specials!) drill bits.

I was doing it on the bench and it was still a real bugger.

At least on the bench I could get to it properly and use a good dose of heat.

(likewise, i ripped up a couple of stud extractors )

I suppose it is possible to drill out the cast-iron and fit bolts or longer studs (with a nut on the back) if you need to.

[ashm]

I've found that HSS tools just don't cut it (no pun intended) with decent quality steel fasteners. There's no need to pay for solid carbide, I've found cobalt bits adequate for drilling most grades of hard steel and it's not too brittle to use in a portable drill if you're careful. I use cutting oil on the lathe and drill press, but not when using a hand drill as it's hard to maintain the necessary cutting pressure, better to stop frequently to let the bit cool.
Adam

[MPx]

OK....enoughs enough I'm giving up....will be in touch with James or Phil at SWLC on Monday.

I've spent hours and hours over the last fortnight soaking with WD40 and trying to think of new ways of doing it or other tools to buy/use. The fact is I haven't been able to remove the broken stud from the bottom of the turbo casting that the Pre-cat bolts to. I did manage to hand drill it once, but not since the extractor broke in it. Anyway, that means I cant just put the new exhaust together again without doing the porting...
...and I haven't been able to get the last bolt out of the side of the top heat shield to get that off before I even try to remove the manifold. So no way to have a proper go at the stud on a bench. I'm bored now and want it done. Embarrassing, but time to admit when I'm beat me thinks! Thanks for all your advice and encouragement anyway.

[HJ2]

Not embarrassing at all!
I know the frustrated feeling you must have. Sometimes it's enough to see somebody else do it (remove the broken bits in this case) Isn't there anyone in your neighborhood that could show you? When i am stuck, observing somone else's handywork usually removes my "blockage" and i can get back to it with fresh enthusiasm.

If that doesn't work... Call a professional, you, as an enthusiast, can't beat years of professional experience, nothing to be ashamed of

[muley]

. I was wondering if I'd be better off removing one big piece (by splitting the manifold off the head) and then splitting turbo and PCE off the car....or weather that would just invite a whole heap more trouble with broken studs in the head etc.??

Not sure what to try next - except maybe winch it on a trailer and take it to the professionals ! Waddya reckon?

Sounds like you've given up - you could take the whole lot off at the manifolds - the pros might well shear the heat shield bolt anyway and have to drill / retap and they could do that bit for you - and the other!, working on the whole lump

Good luck, anyway

Jim

[muley]

. I was wondering if I'd be better off removing one big piece (by splitting the manifold off the head) and then splitting turbo and PCE off the car....or weather that would just invite a whole heap more trouble with broken studs in the head etc.??

Not sure what to try next - except maybe winch it on a trailer and take it to the professionals ! Waddya reckon?

Sounds like you've given up - you could take the whole lot off at the manifolds - the pros might well shear the heat shield bolt anyway and have to drill / retap and they could do that bit for you - and the other!, working on the whole lump

Good luck, anyway

Jim

[MPx]

Well I had a really long day at South West Lotus today and happily significant progress made - many thanks to them.

Most embarassing moment was soon after arrival, Car went up on ramp. I pointed out the one stuck/rounded bolt and the broken stud. Matt put his spanner on the bolt and just undid it. Hmmm - I've been trying to get that one bolt undone for several hours over a couple of weeks with no result! Maybe I need some snap-ons!

The rest proved a bit more tricky however. Took the morning to get everything off, the afternoon to do the port and remove the broken studs (not just the one I broke, but also two more that we did when we separated the wastgate housing) and then the evening to fit it all back together. Result is that the car now has a ported wastgate (to 19.95mm), a PCE, a sports cat, and a 2 1/4" stainless piper system. Happy days!! Not tested yet cos it was soooo late when we finished I just drove it straight from the ramp onto the trailer to bring it home....but hopefully when I do get to try it, it will all have been worth it.

Many many thanks to all at South West Lotus Centre, but particularly to Phil for finding space for me at short notice, James for staying around to help finish off and lock up, and especially Matt who not only worked on it all day til 8pm but also had to put up with me "helping". Of course, I've not had the bill yet, but whatever, that was certainly service above and beyond.