Piper Exhausts turbo downpipe development thread

[Monty]

I would think the wastegate pipe will have to be the same size as the wastegate hole that is in the metal gasket (not the actual wastegate hole that many have ported to 20mm) to keep a smooth flow

Another point is we need to sorce were to get a replacement gasket

[bobbrown]

As long as the wastegate pipe is larger enough it should not be a problem and can be calculated, on the inside it will be under pressure and on the pipe size it will reduce in pressure to what ever the pressure is down stream from the turbo and therefore expand.
A very rough guide would be treble the volume after the turbo assuming 3 bar absolute up stream and and say 1.5 bar absolute down stream.
Do not forget that say starting with a 20mm hole if you went to 28mm pipe you have doubled the area and 36mm is a tad over 3 times the area.
Also you have to allow for the wastegate opening with in the flange that mounts to the turbo and the normal rule or thumb for valves for max flow is 1/4 the diameter but this valve opens on a shaft so may need to open further and probably does but it does not need to open to a right angel to get max flow.

To get a cone shape into the turbine exhaust exit to get from the 48 mm to say 62mm and still maintain a good angle of less than 12 degrees, you can only get so much in the flange and the rest needs to be in the pipe which is curved, tricky me thinks.

Last time I checked SJ's had the gasket but at £16.00 + delivery

Bob

[racerstev]

You could just remove the internal wastegate and install an external. You would have better control of boost
and would do away with boost creep issue's.

It would also take some of the load off the small 2 1/2" exhust.

Steve

[dapinky]

I may appear late to the party on this thread, and have little to offer in the way of expertise (so haven't posted previously), but i have been following it (and the previous discussion/group buy threads) with some interest as my name is on the list - i find it interesting to expand my own knowledge and understanding by reading up on stuff, even though the bottom line is, "I'm just the driver - let the engineers do their bit".

I was getting a tad concerned that this thread was spiralling downwards into a bit of a slanging match, and thought (think?) i may have to put my moderators hat on and start some editing......

...however, Monty lept in from the Red corner and expressed my thoughts pretty much as they were (are?), and since then we are back on topic.

From my point of view, having been here longer than some, but not as long as others, is that this thread is fairly specific, and started by Tom to ask for assitance to develop the best product possible for all of our benefit - it matters not (to me) who invented the wheel, but no-one has ever said that their wheel is better than mine - just maybe fit for a different purpose or use (or at a better price/availability).

As far as who to buy from, that is a personal decision by each purchaser - but my understanding thus far is that a number of people over the years have addressed this particular issue with some success (some more than others), and it appeared last year that a good, usable product had been developed in USA. However, it never went into production, and at that time numerous people enquired as to projected costs, eventually it seemed to peter out and nothing appeared on the market.

Now it appears that we have a motivated developer (with a proven background) who can take this on to a stage where it may well become as *necessary* to us all as the Everest Chip - obviously it depends on price, but there does appear to be a fair bit of support from the membership, and Piper are prepared to put time/effort into the project.

I would hope that Billy at Knox does not feel 'slighted' by this move, and i have no doubt that the product he has developed for Steve works well, but it appears that he is/was unable to provide further items, but i may well be wrong about that, and am open to correction.

Also, I don't see Stevo (or anyone who has one of his original 'stiffys') jumping up and down saying that he's already done it, so why bother - nearly everything can be improved as materials & production techniques evolve.

If this appears to show that LEC are offering support to Piper over Knox, all I can say is that the opinions i express are mine, not necessarily those of the management - but i have a Piper exhaust on my car (and pre-cat eliminator) with which i am very happy, and i support the company and use(d) their products (exhausts and camshafts) in 3 of my current fleet, and many others in the past.

That said, if Billy can provide his item at the right price, i could be persuaded - but it doesn't even appear to be an availlable item at this stage, just a 'one-off' which has worked very well.

As to the proposition that it has become an international war of UK vs US, one word sums that up - Bloody Ludicrous (okay, 2 words )

We are all here for the same sort of reasons, and i have bits on my car which have been made in the USA (Thanks Marie - love your hoops!), as well as spending plenty of my own time over the years sending stuff to USA from UK - thats how it all works - we (as a community) get stuff where it is available, and ship it to wherever the end-user happens to live - and long may it continue.

Okay, that's my 2c / 2p worth done - so back to the techies to sort me a good product at the right price.........



.....and remember to play nice - you're being watched

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Sorry if I upset anyone.

I was under the impression that Billy offered the pipe when he produced the details from his test.

I think he was expecting some form of direct communication which he told me never happened.

I think it has been a big misunderstanding and, yes I believe Billy was hurt or disappointed he got little or no response.

Sorry to have caused such an uproar.

Oh, you can watch me avoid getting involved in future proceedings.

[Monty]

Okay, that's my 2c / 2p worth done -

More like a Dollars worth

Sorry to have caused such an uproar.

Oh, you can watch me avoid getting involved in future proceedings.

Don`t be like that

In the early stages i didn`t read Knox/steves thread as it was a Fed pipe (i don`t read everythread) but then as time went on i had a look and was well impressed with the work and the Dyno runs. The other reason i didn`t ask early on was that i`ve already got a custom pipe fitted, the reason i`m thinking of pipers is that mine doesn`t have the O2 bung and with a better design than mine i thought it maybe the way to go I`m still unsure as i`ve got another custom pipe sat in the wardrobe for 2/3 years which is Maries creation for the Garrett turbo but the turbo is over £700 so i`m in a dilema in the direction i`m going at the moment. It`s certainly an interesting subject and sounds like the 2 desgins will be close to each other

Piper, will you be make this from Stainless?

[RayD]

Very interesting reading from Saska and Bob, with somewhat conflicting ideas as to the distance that the waste gate should join the turbo discharge flow pipe.

Karl,

The way I read Saska’s post he was referring to the direction of entry, rather than the distance from the Turbo … What he visualised as a smoother flow just happened to be nearer.

Ray

[Karl Martin]

Yes, you're quite correct Ray, now I've re read it, apologies to Saska.

[PiperRS]

Piper, will you be make this from Stainless?

That is what we are aiming for, it will deal with the stresses better, these being heat from the turbo, and the weight of the system hanging off it.


Dapinky, thank you very much for clearing this up.

You are correct in what your saying, There are many products that we offer that other companies have the same of, it is down to the purchaser to decide which one they would like to go for, Factors include, price, quality, time of delivery, company reputation and many other factors.

We always aim to produce high quality goods, to do this we need to research the best design, a good medium to get this information is on the forums.
As it is you - the elan drivers - who will (hopefully) be purchasing this, it is your opinions that matter, we do use many other resources to gather the information, but the more information we have, the better a product we can design.

I dont want this to turn into a slagging match that just picks up the negatives of competitors products, its more to see where improvements (if any) can be made. as mentioned, there are new machining and production techniques available to us and it is common sense to use these to our advantage.

Lets keep on track and keep things positive.

[PiperRS]

Hello all!

It has come to my attention that the air-con pump on these cars can get in the way on the downpipe,

I have arranged for a car to come in to us to start development on, however it does not have aircon, obviously i want to make this part to suit the cars with aircon because it will also then fit cars with and without.

does anyone have any images of the pump and here it is in relation to the standard downpipe, or even better, does anyone have an old pump they would be willing to send to us for us to mock up against the car to ensure the clearance is there.


Any help on this will be gratefully appreciated.

[abmunro]

I have a pump but its very heavy.

Wouldn't be cheap to send i dont think

I away till 16th June


Tony

[PiperRS]

I have a pump but its very heavy.

Wouldn't be cheap to send i dont think

I away till 16th June


Tony

Thanks tony, do you have an approx weight? i can arrange collection due to the cost.

let me know.

[steve matthews]

Steve

[Monty]

I have arranged for a car to come in to us to start development on, however it does not have aircon, obviously i want to make this part to suit the cars with aircon because it will also then fit cars with and without.

Wonder if a member that has there name on the "Interest list" has AC fitted will be willing to let Piper test fit


Tony, could try http://www.parcel2go.com/?gclid=CM7RjNj ... 4Qodvxb-uA for postage, the only thing is someones has to wait in for the collection

[Specky]

Just thought I'd say a few words on fitting Stevo's Stiffy and a few pertinent points that could be improved upon.

It's connected to a standard turbo at one end and a 2.5" Piper and the other.

What I'd change, the flanges are made of steel and have corroded badly, not bad considering it was in my shed.( the main body is stainless)

Don't forget to include bolts or studs.

The flange pipe hole diameters were about 2.25", so had to be enlarged to the sidewall.

The bracket on the Stiffy needed to be cut in half so I could get it to align with the engine holes.

(Turbo end) The lower attachment bolt hole, the one closest to engine is to tight to the sidewall of the pipe itself.

It did't come with a oxygen blank.

If you want to use you old heat shield, you could do with another mount at least.

I had to make my own gaskets, top and bottom.

Things that helped, the Piper flex joint at the front help with alignment issues.

[surfboardfiller]

http://s388.photobucket.com/albums/oo33 ... wn%20Pipe/

[PiperRS]

Hello again!

Thank you for all the pictures so far, they are a big help.

I need to source a new turbo to downpipe gasket

The part that would sit on this face. Does anyone have a part number for it, and does anyone know a good supplier for them?

Many thanks!

[bobbrown]

Should be available from S J Sportscars or it was a month or so ago.

Part number A100E6098S

A100E6098S.jpg

Bob

[Specky]

One other thing I forgot to add, the car overboosts even with the wastegate ported to 20mm, 2.5" all the wu from the turbo to the exhaust pipe. And it's louder that just a normal piper. It's not PECO loud though.

TTFN

[saska]

One other thing I forgot to add, the car overboosts even with the wastegate ported to 20mm, 2.5" all the wu from the turbo to the exhaust pipe. And it's louder that just a normal piper. It's not PECO loud though.

Is this with an Everest or std Map ?