Fuel Leaks, Seized Brakes, Water in Footwell - 1st 1000miles

[Danny R]

I've had my Elan 9 months now and covered just under 1000 miles - all was great, me and the daughter have been regularly visiting the ice-cream parlour until the weather turned around October. I have had the odd misfire that I put down to damp that would disappear quite quickly. Then a couple of weeks back I noticed:

1. The passenger footwell had an inch of water in it, even though I have a hood cover on it.
2. The handbrake seems to be seized on one side.
3. The fuel consumption was appalling, then it ran out on the drive at tickover.
4. The water in the header tank has gone from a nice pink colour to a mucky pink / brown, no crud or creamy mayo though.

I decided to tackle the water in the footwell and discovered a missing rubber bung behind the passenger bonnet hinge in the A pillar. I replaced that, just need to see if that tackles the water ingress.

A strong smell of fuel was present with the engine running, then the missus noticed a puddle forming under the car. It was dripping off of the the fuel hose under the car, until the car died. Thing is, I've taken the tank inspection hatch off and looked under the car; the pipe is rubber fuel hose the whole length. This isn't normal is it? Should they be solid metal or plastic? I've taken some photo's but they're too big to upload, but can upload some later.

Coolant, should I have the pink stuff in (is it OAT?). The head gasket was done in march 2012 (3000miles ago) by Sportmotiv. But when you rev the engine the level in the expansion tank goes from half full to full, and settles back to half. No overheating or using either oil or water. Just doesn't look good.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Danny R]

This is the one where the fuel is leaking, you can see the stain mark:


Up the back of the tank:



Top of the tank.

[Rusty Wishbone]

Welcome to Elan motoring. Don't despair - these are really all just niggles. Probably.

Leaks: An inch of water is a bit deep, really. Elans tend to leak, but this is rather extreme. Water tends to get in where the side windows meet the header rail and hood seal, and through the A pillar seal. New seals and a rain cover should improve things. I suspect that the seal you have replaced won't have fixed it.

Handbrake: This is a bit of an Elan weakness too. I normally park the car in the garage without engaging the handbrake to avoid it seizing on. I sometimes find that I have forgotten to put the handbrake on when I return to the car in public car parks. If you can't free it off, you will probably have to install a new caliper seals. Cheap but very fiddly.

Coolant: The pink stuff is probably OAT, which is not ideal. Best to change it for traditional coolant. While you are at it, I would suggest that you replace the thermostat if it hasn't been done for a while.

Good luck.

[Danny R]

Coolant: The pink stuff is probably OAT, which is not ideal. Best to change it for traditional coolant. While you are at it, I would suggest that you replace the thermostat if it hasn't been done for a while.

Thanks for the reply Rusty Wishbone, what is the correct stuff to get?

Regarding the water, I've had to take the seat, carpet and sound deadening out of the passenger side, it's all drip drying in the garage. I do have a hood cover on the car, but thinking of replacing it with a full cover as I can't get my Elan in the garage. Just gonna wait for the next downpour and see what happens. The bung I replaced looks like it's right in the drain path of the windscreen in the scuttle, where the bonnet hinges are.

Not too worried about the brakes, as you say, they're a niggle.

I'm more interested in the fuel lines, they don't look right at all. I've been studying the manual and the DeRoure website images of the fuel system. It pumped 3/4" of a gallon of fuel all over the drive before the wife noticed what'd happened.

[epipete]

In view of the recent Head Gasket replacement and the increasing coolest height in the expansion tank it may be worth replacing the coolest tank pressure, er, lid, cap, bung (crap, I can't think what it's called now) the thingy that you unscrew to top up your coolant. Apparently it contains a valve and, if like mine, it will have corroded thus not maintaining the correct pressure in the system.

I respect of water in the footwell it is either rain water or coolant, if your coolent is low then it could be escaping into the footwell via a leaky Heater Matrix - but possibly only when the heater is turned to hot (this opens a valve to allow coolent through the bulkhead into the matrix. (This valve incidentally, is also prone to failure!). It seems rather deep to be that so probably rain ingress.

If rain suspected then it probably enters via the windscreen / door pillars, I have found that releasing the hood onto its safety clips allows the water to drain properly (unless it is a monsoon). You will need to look under the carpets at the outriggers to ensure that the problem is new and has not insidiously rusted out the metal bits (not a major repair but need to be addressed and well documented on here) over a long period. The soundproofing is like sponge and holds vast amounts of water, best to replace it with sealed cell foam (try ebay)

Good luck

Pete

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Danny: All the fuel lines were originally high-pressure plastic, not rubber lines like your pictures. There are actually THREE (3) lines: One from the petrol tank to the filter: part number B100L0110F - Obsolete since October 2004, one from the filter to the engine: part number A100L0130F - Still available at £12.21 and one for the return from the engine to the tank: part number B100L0112F - still available at £20.19. Those are prices from the January 2015 Lotus Price Guide. They can be ordered from any Lotus dealer as well as the regular Lotus independant suppliers like SJS, P. Matty. The pipe between the pump and the filter was molded to shape and was easily broken when the fittings seized over time. They are a pain to get to to replace them, but I would replace as much as I could get. A qualified shop dealing with fuel lines can probably make up a pump to filter pipe as the connector for the fuel return is the same as the tank feed and the filter uses the same threaded fitting on both ends. The tank end connectors appear to be originally a FORD concept while the fuel filter is a very common GM part.

Fuel-lines.jpg

[Brit-Car-Nut]

I just received the February Lotus price guide and A100L0130F is now £12.58 and B100L0112F is now £20.80 due to an across the board 3% price increase. The increase includes ALL Aftersales prices as well.

[Kathryn]

I had water (damp carpet anyway) in the footwell. If it rains heavily it gets in the passenger side sill, I think it drips off the shower cap into the hinge where the door is slightly malaligned, but it only gets in the footwell if I drive round a bend! I have had water dripping from under the bonnet too. The only time the car has leaked a significant amount (and I'm not surprised it was torrential) water was dripping on my passenger's feet, I don't know where it was getting in, bonnet seals looked ok.

[DaveT]

WRT the leak, and to please the daughter--- buy some goldfish

[Danny R]

Thanks for the comments.

Epipete. When the head gasket was done, the expansion tank and cap were replaced, but like you say it looks like it's not staying pressurised so I'll get another cap, I think they're a GM part looking at the invoice for the headgasket. I think I'll find out what the correct coolant is, flush out and replace at the same time.

Brit-Car-Nut. Thanks for the Pn's and prices, I think there's a Lotus dealer in Leeds near where I work and I'll order the correct fuel lines. I haven't looked at the filter yet, but the pipe between pump and filter is definitely the wrong one. I'm wondering if it's even going to have the correct filter on it looking at the fuel lines.

I think I've got so much water in the car because it's not just rain. The car's had some snow on it recently and I think it melted and tracked down the windscreen into missing bung, the carpets are still out and drying, but I'm sure it's come down the inside of the A pillar. It's wet on the sill bellow the fuse box and that's where there's some rust starting to form. I'm also going to clean up some superficial rust on the sills, there's a little bad bit at the back near B post, but nothing major.

Kathryn, you can't have had your Lotus much longer than me as I spoke to the guy you bought yours off when I was looking. Love the purple colour. I was just a bit shy of his asking price though. I tend not to take mine out in the rain, and upto press the hood cover's been doing a good job. Now thinking about getting a full cover.

I think I may yet get some goldfish Dave . My daughter's only two and she loves the ones a nursery. She love's the Elan with the hood down and tells everyone it's her car. I think I may loose it in another 15 years.

[Kathryn]

Kathryn, you can't have had your Lotus much longer than me as I spoke to the guy you bought yours off when I was looking. Love the purple colour. I was just a bit shy of his asking price though. I tend not to take mine out in the rain, and upto press the hood cover's been doing a good job. Now thinking about getting a full cover.

Yes I've had mine 9 1/2 months now, I'm afraid it goes out in all weathers. Mines under a half cover and I'm impressed how dry it keeps, the only downside is the streaks down the side of the car. I've recently got a full cover but never used it due to the car being too dirty!

[Danevansgolf]

Hi there, I've just replaced the fuel filter on my car. I replaced the pipe going from tank to filter with a high pressure rubber hose from my local motor factors. £5 I think. The rubber pipes which are attached to your tank look identical to what I've replaced mine with, they are correct, we'll just the modern version. Hope this helps you understand why yours are different. Obviously someone has already replaced these once upon a time. Cheers.

[Danny R]

Thought I'd investigate what's going on at the fuel filter end today and this is what I found:





This is the pipe from the fuel filter, which goes back up and over the tank before going down and to the engine:


This pipe is rubber by the time it comes out from behing the tank and underneath the car, so I suspect a poor joint somewhere there, because this is the pipe that's leaking, dripping off the bend on the bottom of the car.

This is the pump to filter pipe I took off:


I'm going to order the proper lotus pipes (16 and 17 in Brit-Car-Nuts diagram) when I get chance, the missus is a week overdue having our 2nd child so I'm kinda holding back for that at the minute

Does anyone know if I'll have to remove the fuel tank to fit these pipes?

Cheers,
Dan.

[Danny R]

Just a quick update:

The car is still leaking in, so the bung didn't work, but it is definitely coming down the inside of the A-post, behind the door hanger / jambe and onto the inner sill metalwork.

The fuel lines I've ordered from my local Lotus deal (JCT600 Leeds), he's gonna order them from Lotus this aft, and I should have them Thursday afternoon. I used Brit-Car-Nut's codes and the prices were spot on.

[Fetnas]

I experianced a leak that let water into the footwell whilst doing a 2 week camping trip around the UK.

I was driving along in the peaks district I think and saw a huge storm front ahead of me. it started raining extremely heavily and water started to run down behind the glove box and into the footwell. When the weather cleared, I had a look around the bottom of the windscreen. I found the a bead of sealant that extends from the hinges towards the middle of the car for about 10cm, at the bottom of the windscreen glass, had gone hard and split. The split was worse on the passenger side thatn ther drivers which is where the leak was worst. As a temporary fix, I covered the cracked sealant with Blutac and then put black electrical tape over the top. THe temp fix was very difficult to see. The next time I was in a very heavy downpour (the type where you slow down because your can't see a bloody thing even with the wipers going full pelt) which was only a couple of weeks later, no water cam in from this area. Problem fixed, infact the temp fix worked so well I've only recently fixed it propperly several years later.

If you can't find an obvious entry point for the leak, I suggest covering suspect areas of caulk or gaps with electrical or duct tape, give it a light hose test, if it still leaks tape up a bit more, repeat untill your leak has stopped. When it stops, the last place your covered is probably the entry point.

Good luck and I hope you find the problem.

[Danny R]

Thanks for the tip Fetnas, I too have some hard, cracked sealant in that area so I'll give that a go.

I've also got a set of fuel lines from Lotus, £40.00 all in. Just need to come up with a suitable Pump to Filter pipe solution I'm happy with.

[Danny R]

As the weather was quite nice between hail storms today, I decided to have a go at fitting the engine to tank flow and return lines I've bought. Getting access to the fuel rail lines in the engine bay is a bit of a tow but removing the expansion tank and throttle body intake pipe helped. I wanted to take out the expansion tank anyway to examine it due to my belief I've got the wrong coolant and this is what I found:

The Coolant I removed:


Inside the bottom of the expansion tank: (note the sludge and copper coloured deposits).



I think the OAT stuff is doing no good, so I'm gonna get some Forte Bio-degreaser, flush and clean, then refil with the old blue glycol-enthanol stuff.

Anyway, I removed the pipes behind the manifold and this is what I discovered:


The one that's dropped to bits is the fuel return pipe, but what I also discovered when I removed the pipes from down the back of the bulkhead and under the floor is that my flow pipe is perfectly okay and in-tact. I've made a mistake and from the fuel filter to the fuel rail is perfectly okay, so I didn't use the new pipe I bought for that at all.

I removed the 8mm rubber hose someone else had fitted all the way back to the tank and found this:


So that's where all my fuel's been going.

So in the end I've just fitted the new return line pipe. Getting the pipes back up the gap in the bulkhead behind the chassis is a bit of a tow, but I threaded some stout wire down from above, tapped the fuel lines to it and tugged them back up.

Once I get the pump/sender to fuel filter pipe replacement, that should be all sorted. Just the brakes and the leak to remedy then.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Danny: Where the two fuel lines go from the underside of the car into the engine bay, they were orifinally wrapped in "convolute tubing" (SPIRAL PIPE ARMOR 620MM) to protect it from being chaffed or rubbed by any of the components and such. I will take a picture of my spare lines so you can see what it looks like.

[Danny R]

It was actually present on my Elan, and I refitted it:



It's all worked out quite well so far, only the return line really needed attention.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Great!

My bundle has the Fuel Pressure and Return Lines, the Emission Vent line to the charcoal cannister and the windscreen washer supply included so it is fairly more busy.

Convolute-3b.jpg