Rear calipers

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Re: Rear calipers

Postby Simon_P » Thu 28.04.2016, 13:54

Fredjohn wrote:I don't think this is what you meant though, so perhaps you could explain a bit further, even in a new thread as this one is for the rears!
Thanks

Hi Fred,

That is indeed what I meant and there is no sensible discussion on rear brakes that doesn't make reference to the front brakes.

1 Using both set-ups you can lock the front wheels.
2 The limiting case is just before the wheels lock where both systems will provide the same stopping effort at the front.
3 By increasing the bias to the front (ie by having bigger diameter discs and greater piston area) it follows that the stopping effort at the rear is proportionally reduced.
4 In the limiting case the stopping effort at the front is the same and for the "Big Front brake kit" in the rear is reduced so the stopping distance will increase.

You may have to apply less pedal effort, it may be easier to lock the fronts, the brakes may feel more positive you might like shiney calipers etc etc but these are all subjective measures.

Re Proportioning valve. It is essential. My comment was that if you change the bias the settings of the proportioning valve are then out as they are matched to the rest of the set-up.
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby Simon_P » Thu 28.04.2016, 14:08

lotusflasherman wrote: me too, but this is a thread about rear brakes so didn't mention that. Never had a problem with fade on OE front pads but went EBC slotted and dimpled discs and Green Stuff pads as an 'upgrade' as everybody said it was an improvement and found I needed left foot on the brake to pre-warm them before I needed them in anger for the first corner ... OK after that but not anything to get excited about.

I have a set of them on the shelf in my garage after following the accepted practice :lol:

Poor braking to start with is less to do with pad warm-up and more to do with engine warm-up. When the engine is cold the IAC lets more air in and the plenum vacuum drops so you get less servo assistance. Let the engine warm-up and you will find that the brakes work better on the first corner ... Try it !
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby lotusflasherman » Thu 28.04.2016, 14:26

Simon_P wrote:
lotusflasherman wrote: me too, but this is a thread about rear brakes so didn't mention that. Never had a problem with fade on OE front pads but went EBC slotted and dimpled discs and Green Stuff pads as an 'upgrade' as everybody said it was an improvement and found I needed left foot on the brake to pre-warm them before I needed them in anger for the first corner ... OK after that but not anything to get excited about.

I have a set of them on the shelf in my garage after following the accepted practice :lol:

Poor braking to start with is less to do with pad warm-up and more to do with engine warm-up. When the engine is cold the IAC lets more air in and the plenum vacuum drops so you get less servo assistance. Let the engine warm-up and you will find that the brakes work better on the first corner ... Try it !


I'll try anything once, except suicide ! :lol:

Race Mini ran on Feredo DS11 pads that definitely needed pre-warming so assumed Green Sh1t was behaving the same. Mini didn't have a servo yet alone an IAC but pads did have the dreaded asbestos in it and worked. Not like today's sintered compounds that seem to wear the disc almost as fast as the pad...
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby gmg31 » Thu 28.04.2016, 22:34

Thank you all for your views and advice. Given how far in advance pnm need to be ordered this looks like my winter project. Cheers
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby DABgp » Tue 03.05.2016, 18:58

maz_r wrote:I think we need to ask Jamie (from fife etc) kindly to take one of his (now famous) trips to the breakers and see what he can find in the way of space savers that might fit (and have the correct PCD etc etc)...

Oh and back on topic, PNM are the way to go imho


PNM rear brakes being fitted tomorrow. Only just realised there is a problem with the space saver spare. I wonder if a spacer and longer bolts to go with the space saver would be a solution?
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 03.05.2016, 19:44

DABgp wrote:[ I wonder if a spacer and longer bolts to go with the space saver would be a solution?


My L reg SE, that left Hethel Dec 93, came with a label on a bag and a special set of bolts to use on the spacesaver. I've posted a photo on another thread but will post it here for convenience to show the different contact profiles - my spacesaver is curved so uses curved face bolts. Alloy wheel and bolt faces are straight. Didn't get different bolts with my previous '90 & '91 SE's so presume those spacesavers had flat faces. Often wondered what the S2 uses and whether I got an S2 spacesaver.

wheelbolts.JPG


Just flagging up there appear to be two types of spacesaver rims so check which type you need bolts for...
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby Fredjohn » Tue 03.05.2016, 20:38

DABgp wrote:PNM rear brakes being fitted tomorrow. Only just realised there is a problem with the space saver spare. I wonder if a spacer and longer bolts to go with the space saver would be a solution?


Interesting idea to solve the fact that the space saver does not fit over any of the brake upgrades, front or rear.

Have you worked out what thickness of spacer is needed so that the space saver will clear the calipers? And therefore what length and strength of bolt you will need to hold it all on?

And by moving the fit further out does the spare wheel then foul the wing?

Keep us all posted :D :D
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby tb10 » Tue 03.05.2016, 21:19

Hi John,

You only want to know so you can get some extra beer into the boot from one of your European tours as it will save space from carrying the full sized spare!! :poke:

:lol: :lol:

regards

John
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby Fredjohn » Tue 03.05.2016, 21:49

tb10 wrote:Hi John,

You only want to know so you can get some extra beer into the boot from one of your European tours as it will save space from carrying the full sized spare!! :poke:

:lol: :lol:

regards

John


Damn I've been sussed.........except it'd be wine, you can't by "real" beer in Europe, apart from certain Belgian brews :D :D
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby John_W » Tue 03.05.2016, 23:06

The spacer idea won't work, I'm afraid. The inset is too deep, and the inset curve profile of the wheel itself is too small a diameter to avoid fouling the calipers. You'd need something like a 2" spacer and 3" bolts to hold it on. The possibility of there being a space saver with the correct PCD of wheel nut holes but with a shallower dish, or squarer cross-section profile to clear the calipers is what's needed. Presumably VW would be the place to start looking, if they do the correct PCD.
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby Elanlover » Wed 04.05.2016, 01:22

After installing the Hi-Spec upgrade the spare wouldn't fit over both the front and rear calipers. I bought a Honda Insight spare which had the right bolt pattern and was a bit larger so it would fit over the rear calipers. The centre bore was a bot small so I took it to a machine shop where they enlarged it to the proper diameter. I can't find the receipt now (of course) but I believe it may have been a 2005????? When partially deflated it fits in the well for the old spare and I keep a cigarette lighter powered air pump in the trunk.
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby basher » Tue 12.07.2016, 22:05

I've been looking into getting a space saver to go over the brake conversion.
It appears that the Honda Insight has got an alloy, older, flatter, yellow spare that seems to fit when you address the bore. There is a later black, steel spare that is more rounded and just visually from the pictures looks like it will snare the caliper on the outer edge.
Anyone know if the later steel still version fits? They seem to be more common than the yellow and I'd prefer to be sure rather than just take a punt?
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby Elanlover » Tue 12.07.2016, 22:40

Mine is yellow. I can't comment on a black one.
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby basher » Thu 28.07.2016, 22:28

Inadvertently got the rounded steel one when I wanted the 'flat' yellow one pictured on here somewhere.
I can confirm it doesn't sodding fit....
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby John_W » Fri 22.02.2019, 19:58

I can confirm that a Honda 15” alloy yellow spare will fit over Wilwood fronts and PNM rears, and still fit in the boot (just). See viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6021&start=41 for details.

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Re: Rear calipers

Postby Rambo » Fri 22.02.2019, 20:06

Well done John :smt023

I bet even Clemo hasn't got one if those. Would look good in the boot of his JC S2 :wink:
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Re: Rear calipers

Postby Fredjohn » Fri 22.02.2019, 20:22

John_W wrote:I can confirm that a Honda 15” alloy yellow spare will fit over Wilwood fronts and PNM rears, and still fit in the boot (just). See viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6021&start=41 for details.

John


Well done John, but not quite. I also fitted this wheel some 10 months ago, but had to machine the rim about 2mm or so (radius) to clear my PNM/Hi-Spec rear calipers. Not sure which "brand" they are, but are definitely Golf Mk4 calipers. Maybe my mounting bracket is slightly different to yours??


Whichever, it is a great improvement and means I now have a tidy boot.
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