Willwood Brake Installation Issue

[davidcgriffiths]

Can anyone give me some advice on Willwood brake installation.
I had a set fitted to the front of my SE some time back but occasionally following wheel removal get the flexible hoses rubbing on the wheel. I have tried various combinations of elbow position in the calliper & bending the hose loops down but worryingly from time to time get rubbing. Fortunately I have heard it and the only damage is to the plastic outer sheath.
Could someone else with Willwoods fitted tell me if the connection fitting in the calliper should be a straight connection or an elbow which is what I have fitted.
The flexible hose is 500mm long is this correct as the bends seem excessive and the problem is keeping this hose out of the way of the wheel.
Any advice would be appreciated rather than try different components and waste money.
Thanks
Dave

[HJ2]

I think you're best off with ditching these hoses and have some made up with a 45 deg. adapter at the caliper end.
I still have a Wilwood set in stock, let me see what hoses i used with that (it's been a while...)

[theelanman]

cable tie the hose/flex pipe out of the way....
I did it on one side when I first put mine on as I only had the one tie left....
I forgot about it......the MOT station noticed it and told me (I was stood watching)......
he moved the car forward to do the brake test and the line went pop......

I wondered why the brakes felt spongy on the way over to the test station....I think had it not gone 'pop' at the test station then I might not have been here...or had a car..........

[Fredjohn]

David
I fitted some Wilwoods to my SE last year. I have 15" wheels. I do not get any rubbing of the pipe at all.
I can't remember the adaptor style (straight or angled), but do know it needs to be sloped c45deg backwards, and the pipe is cable tied to the upper wishbone. This would seem to suggest an angled adaptor!
I will have a look tomorrow when I can get car out of garage and take some photos to show how it is fitted.

Put your location on your profile: you may live close to me so you could pop round to look, but I don't know!!!!

John

[Fredjohn]

As promised photos of Wilwoods installed on my SE. Adaptor is indeed 90 deg and pipe runs roughly at the same angle as the caliper towards the rear.
It is then cable tied to wishbone before going to connector on chassis. Not sure what the "lump" by the cable tie is exactly, probably a pipe mount from previous fitting: I bought them 2nd hand from the written off Bliipi

[HJ2]

Hmmmzzz. My first impression is that tie-wrap the hose to the upper wishbone creates friction and rubbing.
With a 45 deg. connector on the caliper side the hose can be routed to the fixed line without any ties at all (like the Hi-Spec setup)

However if inspection shows no rubbing... who am i to disagree It must be my safety background.

[dapinky]

John,

The lump you refer to is the same as on the OE pipes, and would fit into the 'U' shaped bracket on the leading upper wishbone (if you had one!)

On the earlier wishbones it was welded on, and on the later ones it was bolted on to the 2 holes where I've put the red arrow.

I've got my old wishbones in the garage and am happy to unbolt the brackets for you if you want them (but even then, I can't guarantee that the pipe you have will still sit properly, as I've never had them on mine).

Wilwoodinst2.jpg

[Fredjohn]

Thanks HJ2 and Dave.
Will look to see if there were any brackets left from either my car or Bliipi. Thanks for offer Dave, I will be in touch in due course.
Only been on 1yr, and can't see any rubbing, but can see your concern HJ2. Although as the wishbone and caliper rise and fall together by the same amount, and the movement of the pipe is between the "lump" and the chassis in mid air where there is no contact, friction should be minimal (but not necessarily non-existent).

If there is any rubbing, then the outer plastic sleeve over the braided pipe will go first, so I will be able to take remedial action well before disaster strikes.

I'm not sure I can slide the fitment along the pipe to fit onto the bracket, but will check when time allows. I am at "work" tomorrow and off to Lake district for Club Lotus Lakes 35 on Friday.

David hope photos and advice provided by all are helpful.

John

[HJ2]

Yes,

You can slide the fitment over the hose. It is designed to do that so it can compensate for length difference when turning the wheels.
My memory comes back now, this should indeed fit in a bracket on the upper wishbone. I did use tie wraps, but firmly fixed on the hose just before the fitment (as seen downstreem from the MBC) this to reduce the axial play a little.
Let me see if i still have picture of that when i'm back home.

[Don.Hasi]

those brake lines doesn´t look good... I have had some ones pretty similar to this on the Elan and they start to leak The rubber/tube cover of the braided lines should be hold strong enough at the joint.

old and new one:


+stock one:


leaking:

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Don:

I agree but the hoses in the early pictures have a plastic tube over them to prevent chafing. They seem to be low-end versions with a teflon inner line and a mesh outer cover. Your new lines look like high quality braid over equally high quality fabric inner lines. We used to use the Teflon based lines for our hydraulic clutches when we raced and they broke around every two or three races due to the flexing of the hose when getting on and off the clutch pedal. The teflon tears like thin sheet metal does when you fold it back and forth.

The big issue is YOUR hoses cost a lot more than the HEL/Goodrich retail hoses. I would want a brake line that has the outer mesh to be the diameter of the plastic jacket and only use fabric inner lines.

Good condition STOCK hoses are as good as the HEL lines as far as expansion is concerned and much safer with regard to fit and flexing.

I saved a link to a really nice but expensive hose kit offered in the US but I can't find it right now. When I do, I will add it later.

Found it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel ... 300wt_1125

You will see that these hoses contain the retaining ferules and are BANJO BOLT attached to the calipers. No crappy 90 or 45 degree threaded adapters. You gets what you pay for...

[Fredjohn]

Guys thanks for all your concerns over my brake pipes! Be assured the plastic outer sheath is just that: an outer loose sheath, non structural that protects the steel braiding underneath.

No doubt I will replace them with nice posh new ones, but I don't track, rally or race, so a sensibly priced good quality road pipe will ultimately be fine.

Whilst the angled adaptors look a bit crappy, they were clean and shiny when I installed them, so it is merely surface muck & corrosion from 1yrs use. NB I do clean my car but it is not concours, nor blingy, nor coddled: I drive and use it and the underneath condition somewhat reflects that!!

If I need to up my game to match approved LEC requirements for the general presentational standard, please let me know and I''ll try harder!

Ouch I've just bitten my tongue whilst it was in my cheek

[dapinky]

John

I believe that you're like me when it comes to presentation of the car....

...it's there to be used, not looked at.

(that said, I'm now at the stage of improving the 'looks' - but not to the detriment of usability!)

Mechanically usable/reliable trumps shiny bits any day

[davidcgriffiths]

John,

The lump you refer to is the same as on the OE pipes, and would fit into the 'U' shaped bracket on the leading upper wishbone (if you had one!)

On the earlier wishbones it was welded on, and on the later ones it was bolted on to the 2 holes where I've put the red arrow.

I've got my old wishbones in the garage and am happy to unbolt the brackets for you if you want them (but even then, I can't guarantee that the pipe you have will still sit properly, as I've never had them on mine).

Wilwoodinst2.jpg

Thanks I have those brackets fitted and the flexible so go through them looks like my options are to use cable ties or replace the 90 degree fitting with a 45 degree

[davidcgriffiths]

Thanks HJ2 and Dave.
Will look to see if there were any brackets left from either my car or Bliipi. Thanks for offer Dave, I will be in touch in due course.
Only been on 1yr, and can't see any rubbing, but can see your concern HJ2. Although as the wishbone and caliper rise and fall together by the same amount, and the movement of the pipe is between the "lump" and the chassis in mid air where there is no contact, friction should be minimal (but not necessarily non-existent).

If there is any rubbing, then the outer plastic sleeve over the braided pipe will go first, so I will be able to take remedial action well before disaster strikes.

I'm not sure I can slide the fitment along the pipe to fit onto the bracket, but will check when time allows. I am at "work" tomorrow and off to Lake district for Club Lotus Lakes 35 on Friday.

David hope photos and advice provided by all are helpful.
Thanks John very helpful
John