Lower Wishbone Inner Bush E100C6002F

[basher]

Did I see somewhere that somewhere someone modified some other bushes to replace these? I know they are effectively obsolete and a group buy is at the understanding interest stage?
Or is the SJ option the only available? 8 at £37 is a bit painful....

[basher]

Silence probably tells me all I need to know....
Ok another question. I have my drivers side suspension all apart at the moment on the bench. The end pivot joint Lower Ball Joint TCA - A100C6020F concerns me.
It looks to be in reasonable condition and moves freely, however the boot (which appears to be in good condition) on top does not seem to be linked to the TCA at all. Normally, you have a metal tie around a raised ridge or something similar which anchors the boot to the TCA and stops the muck and rubbish getting in, This seems almost like a little cap that sits on top of the joint but is not sealed at the base.
Obviously at the moment, while it is off the car and unconnected to anything else, it is probably moving through a range of movement that it wouldn't normally have and this might allow the boot to move to a position where it isn't fully over the joint below protecting it. Normally I would imagine it covers the ball most/all of the time.
Is this normal? Im in a position where Im changing whatever needs it because I don't fancy doing this again for a while and I've still got the other side to do. I don't think its that expensive but I don't want to bother if a new ones going to be exactly the same.

Any ideas?

[dapinky]

Well, I have been looking at all this sort of stuff this week (and spending £££s at various suppliers for the new project!) so I can make a few observations on both current stuff available, and how I have done stuff previously.

First, as far as the inner bushes for the lower wishbone are concerned - Lotus list a different part for the frontmost inner bush and the rearmost inner bush - this is because one is slightly more pliable than the other in it's original manufacture.....

..... I don't know if that is still the case with the 'currently available' poly bushes, but I suspect that it is a slightly different shore rating on the bush - who knows? Either way, it is the only option that I know of (or can find) anyway, so if yours need changing, this is the only way to do it, short of getting some bespoke ones made, or chancing across some NOS ones.

The lower balljoint on the front TCAs is one of those parts which I have never needed to replace - they seem to go on forever, unless they suddenly don't!

It is one of the very few parts which I examine to see if it is bad, and only consider replacing if needed - otherwise, I just re-grease it (the boot has already gone in the bin by this point to examine the actual ball & socket with all grease removed), fit a new boot, and use a new nylock when assembling it all. I never use any chemical degreasant when cleaning them up as I don't want any residue to 'dilute' the new grease - just wipe it off with a clean rag.

It sounds like you have an issue with your boot, as it certainly should be attached both top (to shaft) and bottom (to TCA) with either spring clips, cable ties or locking wire (I favour stainless locking wire).

As boots are cheap as chips and generally get damaged when dismantling the suspension anyway, I always have a bag full in the garage - I cant remember the exact dimensions, or the cross-reference (some tractor, IIRC), but a 'universal' item does the job fine - something like https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304193755192 will have what you need, or you can just measure a good one and buy that particular size (the only measurements you need are top diameter, bottom diameter and height).

As the boot has (presumably) only been detached since the last MOT (otherwise it should have been noted), the actual balljoint is unlikely to have picked up enough crap to have worn, but give it a good check over, as a new balljoint is only £15 at SJs.... but worth adding a few other bits to the order to cope with the minimum postage! (I started off with 2 raft bushes in my basket and the final basket ended up at £250ish - postage only went up 40p )

[basher]

Thanks for the advice.
I guess that's where my thinking was going, change it as its cheap although a pain to push in/out. Just wondering if the next one would be the same and again I would have nothing to attach the base to.

I don't know what you mean regarding the different wishbone inner bush, as far as I can tell the Parts Manual only shows the one bush being used?

[dapinky]

I don't know what you mean regarding the different wishbone inner bush, as far as I can tell the Parts Manual only shows the one bush being used?

If you look at page 31.03A of the parts book, it lists #65 & #66 as different part numbers for the front and rear bushes - both part numbers feature on SJs parts list, but if they are actually any different to each other is anyone's guess????

[basher]

Ah, I am working on the front end wishbones, I haven't got to the rear yet!! Although Ive got no reason to think the rears are any better.
Like you say, they appear to be interchangeable with the front apart from that back one.

[chrism]

Bell + Colvill w/site gives exploded diagrams and part numbers; that'll tell you if they're interchangeable?

[dapinky]

I understand your confusion..... if (when?) you look at SJ's website it lists the E100C6002F bushes under the front suspension section, but they are for the inner wishbone (lower) at the rear......

.... not at all clear, really.

What you actually need for the front is SJ100C0008 & SJ100C0009.... which are actually the exact same part ..... each part number is a pair of bushes, so 1 of each will do both sides.... the rubber ones have not been available for quite some time.

Then you need the outer bush (listed as the damper yolk link bush) # D100C6005F x 2 .... alternatively, if you wish to keep it all as polybushes, then Steve may have them on the shelf, but Phil (SW Lotus) definitely lists them (or at least, he did last week!).

As for the top wishbone bushes, then I usually change them just for the hell of it - but I can't say I've ever seen any OE rubber ones which have degraded to the point of failure.

[basher]

Quick question that probably won’t be quick.
Could you replace those two bushes with one instead? What does having two (one each side) give you that you don’t get with one tubular bush running the length of the TCA mount. The two bushes do actually touch in the middle and push against each other but you probably still get independent movement from each.

There are bushes out there that could potentially be adapted so that’s why I ask.

[Tuga2112]

Quick question that probably won’t be quick.
Could you replace those two bushes with one instead? What does having two (one each side) give you that you don’t get with one tubular bush running the length of the TCA mount. The two bushes do actually touch in the middle and push against each other but you probably still get independent movement from each.

There are bushes out there that could potentially be adapted so that’s why I ask.

i found the 2 bushes to be a lot easier to install than if it was a single unit. but they have a sleeve inside that effectively makes them operate as one in practice.

im curious to find out if i spent money on rubber that could have been considerably cheaper at the end of the day

[basher]

The two bushes I have been looking at are both Febi bushes that need to be adapted. I could have sworn that I have seen someone on here adapting some bushes to replace the Elan ones above but I can't for the life of me find the posts.

The bushes have to have a 31mm diameter so that they fit snugly within the interference fit of the TCA housing.
The inner bush tube needs to have an inside diameter of 12mm so that the bolt will go in and fit tightly.
The TCA housing is 35mm wide so the meat of the bush needs to be that long or as near as possible to that length, BUT the inner tube needs to be slightly longer to link up with the sides of the raft mounting.

bush 2 by Michael Baldwin, on Flickr

bush 1 by Michael Baldwin, on Flickr
The bush in the first photo, in order to work it needs to have the inner shaft drilled out to 12mm to fit the bolt and then the inner shaft would need to be trimmed down at both ends. The metal of the inner shaft is pretty thick and even if you did drill out the extra to make this happen, you would still have the same thickness of metal as an original bush. But is is 31mm diameter and is a near fit to the 35mm. This is obviously long enough that you would use one bush rather than two.

The bush in the second photo is a 31mm diameter and 12mm inner so that fit is perfect. The bush is however a bit long so you would have to trim the 2 down so that they are the same size as an original bush. Also, you would need to take a bit off the front of the bush to allow it to fit in the jaws of the raft.

Both are available for £10 or less. One is a Honda Suspension Arm Bush and the other a Peugeot 205 Wishbone Control Trailing Arm bush. I would be interested if anyone has bought and fitted SJ Lotus's replacements as to what they are like and whether they are Poly or a direct rubber replacements.

I welcome any thoughts

[dapinky]

I have a number of comments/observations, and I can't say for sure that my thinking is either accurate or correct, so any decision is yours, and yours alone.....

.... Lotus decided for whatever reason, that the inner ends of both the TCA and the link/stabiliser bar should have the same bushes, and that they should have 2 parts, one pushed in from each side.
However, it isn't quite that simple - as the inner metal sleeve is a sort-of composite part in that each side of the bush has its own inner sleeve, with a diameter of about half an inch (13mm ish, but I didn't measure it), and then has another metal sleeve which goes through both sides. I don't know if that sleeve is bonded, or just an interference fit, but it is definitely tight enough to make it a 1-piece fitting.

(I know that because I pressed my old ones out yesterday, and having removed the centre bit, I then had to do the usual cut with a hacksaw to remove the outer sleeve).

Now, if the bush is replaced with a single unit, which way would you press it in? from the front of the car, or the rear? It will make some difference to the way the bush reacts, but maybe not enough to worry about....

.... my bigger concern is that if you have to drill out the centre sleeve, it will generate heat, and that heat will affect the bond between the sleeve and the rubber - maybe causing enough change to allow the 2 parts to become detached...... it certainly doesn't need much heat to break the bond completely.

..... is the shore rating of the rubber bush you have sourced the same as the Lotus part? (probably it is as they are all fairly similar - so unlikely to be far enough away to be a worry).

Now, I have bought a set of SJ bushes (Poly) for mine, and they are the same part that I fitted to my green car 10 years ago (or whenever it was I did them - something like 10 years I expect!). They fitted without any great drama, and haven't broken yet, They are a 2-part fitting, with half from each side (Top-hat profile) with a central M12 bore stainless tube.

When you mention about someone adapting bushes, the only mention I can remember was when I adapted some raft bushes..... the upper raft bushes are an identical construction and composition to the front/lower raft bushes - except they are 4mm longer. As such, and as I got a bag full when they were being sold off at the factory for £3 each, I cut them down by the required amount. (without introducing enough heat to de-bond the central sleeve). At the time it was done out of some necessity, as the lower bushes were not available at the time I needed some - but they are now listed and stocked at a few places, including SJs.

The inner bushes I got from SJs are listed at £22.74 (inc VAT) for a pair, so £45.48 for enough to do all 4 bits on the car - SJ100C0008 & SJ100C0009 (actually, both part numbers are the same item, but listed separately to discern between the TCA and the link bar)

[basher]

Oh My God.
Why didn't I change all these bushes so long ago!!!
Drove the car for the first time yesterday with all new bushes and ball joints and it was like night and day. I reckon the removed bushes must have been the originals as some were in a particularly poor state - especially the passenger side. Afterwards the drive was was taught, precise and comfortable with no real play, it went exactly where I put it.
If you have any doubts about the bushes condition, I heartily recommend replacement.
The only downer was that the drive in question was to and from the garage for the MOT, which we failed. But the failure points I feel were as a result of standing around through the winter and not doing much last year, a bit of fettling and I'll be back on the road to enjoy it.

[dapinky]

It's amazing how much wear the suspension bits get over 30+ years - even when they look okay (which many don't!).

We all fully accept that rubber parts like tyres and belts have a finite life, but still seem to expect bushes to keep going, even if the car hasn't turned a wheel.

On my current project car I have replaced all the 'wearing' items in the suspension as a matter of course (shocks were past their best even with a cursory look). The top ball joints were seized to the bolts (a common issue when they haven't been touched for many years) - but all the bushes looked good.....

.... they still got changed, because they are still available and whilst it's apart anyway, it made sense. I'd rather have a car which I can expect to last another 30 years (bushes!) than one which I'd have to dismantle quite heftily to check their condition. The raft ones can't be properly observed/tested with the raft still fitted, and to get that off, the whole lot needs to come out again.

I'm pretty sure that with under 80K on the clock, the bushes & joints are all original - and none looked to be degraded. They take far longer to remove the old ones than to fit the new ones, and it is a job I dislike, due to the mess that gets everywhere - but once done, it all seems worthwhile.

The bottom line though is the way the car drives afterwards - anything which brings that much of a smile to your face is worth it!

[basher]

Yep, I took that view as well, I’m in there, it’s a pain, so I will change everything I come across. Bottom ball joints in the TCA looked to be fine despite the boot issue but I changed them as I was there and they were cheapish.

[roy666]

Fwd Lower Raft Bush.jpg

Hi all... I know this is a trail is a little old, but I thought my issue would be better placed on here (the previous remarks are v relevant). I’m in the middle of swapping out some bushes. I’m looking at the lower raft bushes, the forward one (which is made of 2 bushes, a top one and a bottom one, both identical and #50 (C100C6006F) on the 31.01a diagram)…recently purchased from SJs. On the attached pic you can see that when pressed together there is a slight gap, 3mm or there abouts, which suggests to me they won’t fit flush..and they need to be flush..right? Have I been sent the wrong one, which can happen sometimes with SJs?? I can't use it if its not going to sit flush.

[roy666]

More stuff from SJs that didn’t fit. The new ‘Top Hat’inserts won’t go over the raft stud..diameter is too small; however, Chris at SJs was very good..he checked his stock to find that their whole consignment of ‘Top Hats’ has been manufactured to wrong spec. The poly bushes also too big..so being replaced with the correct ones. Good fun this suspension refurb![attachment=0]top wishbone bush.jpg