Ebay performance upgrades

[mickmick]

On Ebay at the moment there are numerous engine enhancing parts that claim to increase the BHP by up to 15 or so, all very cheap(less than a fiver) and all seemingly very easy to fit.

So, for 5 quid, we can all increase our performance, mpg, cure flat spots etc etc

Or can we???????

anyone got any feedback on these items or are they as i suspect just a pipe dream?????

Mick K

[pjohn151]

From what I can gather, all these items tend to do is richen up the air/fuel mixture. They will cause spark plug fouling and other such problems associated with running rich.

It's sometimes hard enough getting the cars to pass MOT emissions without adding a Carlos Fandango gadget that will mess up the good work that Lotus did.

Don't waste your money! THEY DON'T WORK!

Spend your money on a proper upgrade like a better air filter, an engine tune, an ESM chip, petrol, beer etc..

Phil

[ailwyn]

Spend your money on a proper upgrade like a better air filter, an engine tune, an ESM chip, petrol, beer etc..

Needless to say this upgrade is not for the car or the designated driver

[mickmick]

Kinda what i figured, but you never know with some of these things, hence the post.

cheers for the reply

Mick K

[Doug]

shame on you for falling for the trap, Mick. Go have a beer and tell yourself not to do it again!

[mickmick]

oh i didnt buy one, just thought i'd ask to see if anyone else had tried it , thats all.

I'm nieve some days(ask my good lady) but i'm not stupid lol

Mick K

[algirdas]

Dear Ailwyn:

You mean I'm supposed to drink the beer and put the petrol in the car? Doh! I knew something wasn't right when my car would belch all the time and my whiskers would explode everytime I lit up a cigar.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[Don.Hasi]

THEY DON'T WORK!

Sorry but this is wrong.

They work well and gain on a turbo these 15bhp easily with no prob. I would say even more.

The way of function is like phil has written it. And yes, its not a fair move to irritate the ECU and in germany/EG you have an prob with taxes too and this is the greatest thing you could do regarding the government. To pay less taxes

But it works. I have myself experiences for twotimes about 100k mls => no prob. a friends diesel runs now 200k miles, but as he says, he is only running-in the engine at this time

So, if the powergain is not too much, it is ok. All other distributor/tuner manipulate the ECU. There are in the most cases no (!) differences. Only a few tuner with accurate engineering know what they do and this also with a try and error tactic.

But for this

Spend your money on a proper upgrade like a better air filter, an engine tune, an ESM chip, petrol, beer etc..
Phil

one can´t say, that there is a deeper meaning in it too. If you take more from the engine, you have to give the heart something back. And thsi is what you can´t buy on the ebayway...

Kind regards

(@phil: sorry, but I think, considerng all aspects, we are very close, aren´t we? Kind regards too )

[Doug]

but the point is if you want an upgrade in line with emissions and undetectable by any inspection, the go for the ESM Mountain chip hands down!!

[Don.Hasi]

but the point is if you want an upgrade in line with emissions and undetectable by any inspection, the go for the ESM Mountain chip hands down!!

Sorry, I don´t know much about your emissioncontrols and their borderlines, but in the germany they are very strong. And you don´t notice the 10Cent-"Chips" by any kind of inspections and their behaviour to the emissions is at the end of the normal parameter, so you don´t fail it.

Kind regards

[mickmick]

So we now have two differing opinions about the upgrades

1 saying dont do it, but a moutain chip(circa 100 pounds)

2 saying for 10-15 % bhp buy a ten pound jobber from Ebay

Both of which do basically the same job(ie pour more fuel into the engine when the throttle is opened)

So, who is right??? Cmon folks, any more input to this debate...........

[Sy V]

Mick

Ask yourself this: Would you rather have an Elan-specific chip tested by Elan owners and developed by an Elan-owning scientist, who offers free advice/help?

Or: Would you rather have a dubious generic chip developed by an unknown entity targetting the riceboy brigade with one thing in mind - making money?

[Doug]

exactly -- it's so simple it's sickening -- makes me want to blast this thread into oblivion . . .

[pjohn151]

Now go buy that beer with the money you have just saved yourself from wasting!

Phil

[mickmick]

I seem to have opened up a real can-o-worms here.

firstly i'd like to say i havent bought ANY sort of modifications from either our well known and loved chip guru OR a dodgy Ebay rupert, my car is stock, and, for my purposes, the acceleration and performance and as good as i require(140 or so from a 1600 engine is fine by me )

All i wanted to do was find out if anyone had tried the items and their thoughts.

Please dont label me as a back to front baseball cap wearing chav, anyone who has met me will hopefully attest to the fact that i might be less well off than most owners, but i do have some sense of class. Yes i will spend 10pounds on kit if it works the same as a similar items for 50, but who wouldnt do that?

Anyway, lets have some more replies to this if we can, if not, kill the thread as i'm fairly sure i'm swaying toward the not ebay side of things

Mick K

[pjohn151]

mickmick, I fully appreciate your interest in finding cheaper solutions to problems, heck, thats part of the purpose of this forum and the GM parts cross references, but to settle your curiosity, here is the technical answer:

The ebay mods work by enriching the fuel mixture throughout the speed & torque operating points of the engine, so what effect does this have:

Fuel Enrichment Effect On High Load Operating Points

The lambda for maximum power (actually imep - indicated mean effective pressure) given a fix ignition angle and fix engine speed will vary slightly from application to application but occurs in the range lambda 1 to slightly rich of 0.9 (Air Fuel Ratio - AFR 14.7 to 13.2). Normally imep peaks slightly lean of lambda 0.9. Above Lambda = 1 (AFR 14.7) imep will decay quickly as lambda increases, below 0.9 it will decay slightly as lambda decreases. To make a sound choice of which lambda to run one has to consider thermal limits of the combustion chamber- and exhaust components, as well as knock limits. If the operating point is not critical with respect to knock, or with respect to excessive thermal stress on exposed components the lambda to run is close to 0.9 as mentioned before. This is because at this lambda the maximum number of oxygen molecules will take part in combustion. Adding more fuel than this portion at the given conditions will not give more power because there are no more oxygen molecules available. Any additional fuel added will flow through the engine unburned, and as it then stays a liquid it will have a cooling effect on the combustion process.

So What is The Optimum Lambda Then?

Well, it depends on what you are optimising for - power, durability (thermal component protection) or fuel economy or a compromise thereof. In real life this should to be judged from application to application, and it also depends on which of the limits is reached first: thermal stress, knock limit, or the mechanical stress limit? Which of these bad things is the most important to avoid? For private persons increasing the performance of their cars, the most devastating thing that can happen is usually a breakdown of the engine internals because of the expense it implies. Therefore the sound decision is often "better safe than sorry", so with the knowledge above one realizes that when optimising for power it is, in some cases, possible to make a safer and yet more powerful approach than blindly going on the said to be perfect lambda of 0.9 or 0.85 or what ever. The sound path is the one that takes into account the complete application at hand and optimises it for its purpose. which is why an ESM chip is a fully mapped replacement for all the engine operating points, and hence is £100, and the ebay mod is a resistor that tricks the ECU into running rich all the time.

For treatment of exhaust gas by a 3-way catalytic converter it is absolutely essential to adhere to lambda of 1.0 with the engine running at normal operating temperature, so the ebay mod would certainly ruin any S2 or catalyst equipped SE.

Phil

[ailwyn]

The sound path is the one that takes into account the complete application at hand and optimises it for its purpose. Which is why an ESM chip is a fully mapped replacement for all the engine operating points, and hence is £100, and the ebay mod is a resistor that tricks the ECU into running rich all the time.

AKA You get what you pay for - go cheap and risk a BIG repair bill or pay out a little more for the reassurance.

Ailwyn

[Monty]

:agree:


exactly -- it's so simple it's sickening -- makes me want to blast this thread into oblivion . . .

Go on Doug Blast it

100 squid for a performance chip is as cheap as chips

BBR £500+
Superchip £500+

[Don.Hasi]

Ho Ho Ho ! Keep cool

Its only a discussion of the vary alternatives as mick wanted to be. If you read my posts you don´t find any advise

So, as the first step, if you would ask me, what i would do, I would take "the mountain with Yeti " Why? As Sy said, it seems to me also cool to have an internal forums solution, much support and the story to it. No doubt about it.

BUT, if we talk over the technical aspects to it, so its wrong to tell mick, that the ebayitem will kill his engine, and the everest will not take a itsybitsy stability/longlife (?) from the engine. Every (!) softwaretuning takes some miles out of it. Some one more and some one less. Otherwise there will be no powergain. And both are talking dirty things to your ECU. Otherwise there will be no change.

Or regarded on the other hand, if there will be only natural settings, which make the engine go faster why didn´t do GM/Lotus them to blast every sportscar away? Yes of course of emission, longlife, noise,... a very complex topic.

If s.o. answers with view to circumstances, cause the engine normally transfers bigger and heavier bodies, he is right. But nevertheless the engine, the whole powertrain, wishbones, differential, gearbox, tire , buffers, ... every single screw would lasts longer, if you simple follow the servicenotes and shift gear by 3000 rpm, never push the right pedal...

So Mick, if your decision is fallen pro tuning, you have to decide again if you want a neutral one or an especially one with very much input and love , with the best intent to your engine developed... Its like a blue jeans. You get some for 5pounds or some for 100 pounds. They fullfill nearly the same aim. But in most cases the 100 pounds one looks a slight touch better. This leads in the first case to go home alone or second with the best gridgirl around. You only live one time....

now its up to you




To the rest => PEACE!

[ESM]

So, as the first step, if you would ask me, what i would do, I would take "the mountain with Yeti " Why? As Sy said, it seems to me also cool to have an internal forums solution, much support and the story to it. No doubt about it.

BUT, if we talk over the technical aspects to it, so its wrong to tell mick, that the ebayitem will kill his engine, and the everest will not take a itsybitsy stability/longlife (?) from the engine. Every (!) softwaretuning takes some miles out of it. Some one more and some one less. Otherwise there will be no powergain. And both are talking dirty things to your ECU. Otherwise there will be no change.

Or regarded on the other hand, if there will be only natural settings, which make the engine go faster why didn´t do GM/Lotus them to blast every sportscar away? Yes of course of emission, longlife, noise,... a very complex topic.

I can never resist correctly little points, I should change my sign-on to pedant!

More torque and more power does equal more stress on the engine, there's no getting around that. However, the technical merits of how any power upgrade achieves its power gain does make a material difference to how much power is won and the effect this has on emissions, engine life (via cylinder temp as a result of mixture change etc).

1. Any simple sensor offset that makes the Elan run rich will reduce the top end power. The Elan is already much too rich at full boost for any power gains to be realised by this approach.

2. Similar changes ?(resistors) that advance the timing are ropey because thay can induce some knock and the effect can be obtained by just altering the timing in the usual way.

3. The MBC style approach is cheap and cheerful and does achieve power gains (it isn't elegant and it does have disadvantages I've covered elsewhere).

4. My chip is a genuine reprogramming of boost targets no sensor values are fudged.

My advice is don't get one size fits all cars type upgrades because they are really crap. If you're tight sort an MBC

As to the intentions of Lotus in putting the amount of power in they did, I know (I got contacts, like) that they believed there was a lot more to come from the engine, they planned a 4WD drive version and that would have needed more power from both a marketing and technical point of view.