Two New Tyres - front or rear

[Gary]

FGS now I don't know what to do !

Ordering them tomorrow - and they will be Michelin's. So is it front or rear ?

[ailwyn]

Why don't you just replace the two worn ones (assuming they are both on the same axle)?

[Gary]

At the moment they are on the back - as I had the best 2 put to the front...

[RayD]

Thank you Bill,

With them not being your words I hope you don't mind if I don’t agree with them all...

... over 50% of motorists believe this to be the case and 30% of motorists did not know. 80% of people don’t disagree with the idea of new tyres being on the front. This is millions of people compared to the two or three individuals who carried out the ’demonstration’

Industry research suggests that if the new tyres are fitted to the rear wheels, water on the road surface is better dispersed, which improves straight line braking ability. Doesn’t apply to a Lotus Élan due to pressure control valve settings to the rear brakes.

Conversely, if the rear track is fitted with part worn tyres, the car often has a dangerous tendency to oversteer. Most cars have part worn tyres on the rear. Oversteering isn’t dangerous it’s an essential part of driving on flexible tyres.

As the majority of the cars on the road are front wheel drive, it seems to make sense to have the new tyres up front. Correct

The demonstrations also showed that there is often a greater loss of control when a rear tyre suffers a puncture, so in fact it makes greater sense to fit the fresh, less vulnerable rubber to the rear wheels. The sort of puncture that causes loss of control can happen to the newest of tyres.

Rear tyres are subject to relatively low wear rates as well, meaning that the new tyres will have a longer lifespan on the back rims. Fitting new tyres to the rear and moving part worn rubber to the front each time also means that the rear tyres will be less prone to age-related deterioration from prolonged exposure. They would do better to promote the idea of changing all four at once. The part worn ones could be recycled or saved until the next change.

This slight exaggeration might get my point over...

If there were two of the very best, brand new tyres available along with a pair of completely bald ones, and a Lotus Élan...you would make safer, quicker progress with the new ones on the front under any conditions... or at least I would.

Ray

[tweetdriver63]

When cornering, if the fronts have better traction than the rears, the result is oversteer. If the rears have better traction than the fronts, the result is understeer. The car's configuration also has a huge impact. Front-drive front-engine, rear-drive front engine, rear-drive rear-engine, rear-drive mid-engine, all will affect under/oversteer. Oversteer=go through the fence tail first. Understeer=go through the fence nose first. Balance=go through the fence sideways.

A front-engine, front-drive car will have a huge natural tendency to understeer. Better traction in the rear than the front also causes understeer. Therefore, logically, new tires in back, part-worn tires in front, will make for more understeer. Although some understeer is good, and manufacturers design their cars to do it (it makes the car more stable, and therefore safer), Lotus put a lot of work into reducing it. Personally, I would either replace all four, or put the new ones up front, since the fronts will wear faster, need the most help getting traction, and new ones up there will help reduce understeer. I don't think there's much risk of dangerous oversteer in this car.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[rip]

It is only on this forum that i have ever come accross the 'Best tyres on the rear' comment.

Also seen this point of view a few months back on a Primera forum.

From my own experience (& I've never owned a RWD):
Losing the front end (understeer) is controllable.
When oversteer occurs, it tends to be more sudden..the rear end just seems to snap away and put you in a spin.

Gary: It doesn't matter where you put your new rubber. By the time you'll have driven it enough to wear off the mould release compound, the rubber will have perished

[Enright]

I don't think there's much risk of dangerous oversteer in this car.

I have to disagree there to an extent: There's not MUCH risk, but when it happens it's very dangerous. Elans are obviously extremely good in the handling department, but when they let go, they do it VERY quickly, usually because you have to be going at quite a rate for them to do.
Chris.T had an ongoing quest to master lift-off oversteer in track conditions to help him get round corners better. As far as I know he still hasn't cracked it. And remember that's in sanitised conditions where you're expecting things to go wrong.
If one end, any end, lets go on the road, your instinctive reaction is "oh no, I'm going too fast, slow down," and you back off or brake. But that is precisely the wrong thing to do if the back end has stepped out in a FWD car. However it's an huge mental hurdle to get over and keep your foot planted.
So unless you're VERY good, the best thing to do is to ensure the rear wheels have the best grip so that if you do reach the limit, the front will push wide first.
Of course, if you never go anywhere near the limit, then it's not an issue, but there aren't many that can honestly say that.

[Gary]

I think we need a mod to start a poll.

[ailwyn]

I think we need a mod to start a poll.

Your wish is my command

[RayD]

I don't think there's much risk of dangerous oversteer in this car.

I have to disagree there to an extent: There's not MUCH risk, but when it happens it's very dangerous. Elans are obviously extremely good in the handling department, but when they let go, they do it VERY quickly, usually because you have to be going at quite a rate for them to do.
Chris.T had an ongoing quest to master lift-off oversteer in track conditions to help him get round corners better. As far as I know he still hasn't cracked it...

One of the causes of the conflicting ideas might be... people are talking about two different things when it comes to oversteering.

I’m referring to it in this way....

Understeering and oversteering happen within the range of the sideways movement in the tyre. It’s a normal everyday occurrence. You would need solid tyres not to be understeering or oversteering. The very first cars managed without it, but they were crap at road holding.

Skidding happens a bit later on.

A tall tyre with deep treads and soft side walls has a bigger capacity for over or under steering than a squat slick tyre with stiffer side walls.

All front wheel drive cars understeer under power. When you lift off at speed in a bend, it’s not oversteering that starts, but understeering that stops, and starts the ‘turn in.’

If at the same time the rear tyres loose grip and the car goes into a rear wheel skid, you have a problem, but it is not oversteering.

A good way to demonstrate it would be to put a pair of wire cutters through the throttle cable at full acceleration in a bend, you might break the record for the most number of pirouettes but you wouldn’t be oversteering.

Before someone explains... I do realise the weight of the back end of the car creates an amount of oversteering one its own, but I was trying to keep it simple, and memorable.

I can never remember two minutes together which is which, I have to think each time I write understeer or oversteer. It’s an easy thing to get confused with.

Once a car is skidding it won’t make a lot of difference how much tread is on the tyres.

Ray

PS. I never vote. When looking at the results you'll have to add a 1 to which ever you think best.

[Gary]

Ok I've ordered them for fitting on Friday.

At the moment it is rear - 2 votes to 1...

[dapinky]

PS. I never vote. When looking at the results you'll have to add a 1 to which ever you think best.

But as i have a history of being an arguementative bugger, I'd probably vote the other way just for the hell of it - so that will cancel it out

PS -

In reality, i just don't know which is best, but whatever you decide upon, stick within the limits of the Road, Car & Driver.

[Sy V]

Why don't you stop being so damned tight and buy 4!

[Gary]

Thanks for the input SY

We are talking over £200 just for the 2, why would I replace the other 2 which are perfectly ok ?

I can fill my Jag up twice with the money I've saved

[Sy V]

Good poll too!

I've removed the "Who cares!... It's only Gary" option.

[Rambo]

There - that evens it up nicely

Gary - you can get 2 Dunlop SP sport 9000's off Blackcircles for £125 fully fitted. That means another 1/2 tank of juice for the Shaguar.

Or even the Toyo R888 track tyres (road legal) are coming in slightly cheaper than the Michelin Exalto's. That saving will buy you a couple of litres of Shell's finest for the gas guzzler.

[Gary]

We seem to be undecided at the moment, which about sums up the answers on the thread !

[paulwatkins]

We are talking over £200 just for the 2,

Did you say they were Michelins Exalto's?

£100 each is steep for them.

£75 each at my local place (fitted, balanced, disposal etc etc)

[RayD]

PS. I never vote. When looking at the results you'll have to add a 1 to which ever you think best.

But as i have a history of being an arguementative bugger, I'd probably vote the other way just for the hell of it - so that will cancel it out

PS -

In reality, i just don't know which is best, but whatever you decide upon, stick within the limits of the Road, Car & Driver.

Dave.

We seem to be undecided at the moment, which about sums up the answers on the thread !

...undecided...me!...chris.t!

Seriously Gary, within reason, it won’t make the slightest difference.

Ray

[Rambo]

We are talking over £200 just for the 2,

Did you say they were Michelins Exalto's?

£100 each is steep for them.

£75 each at my local place (fitted, balanced, disposal etc etc)

I only paid a bit more for mine £70 + vat for all the works