Breathing new life into an old car

[Tuga2112]

i do try to help, even tho a lot of the time i dont know much about the topic

[dapinky]

As far as I have ever known, the difference isn't in the geometry, so much as the strengthening plates added to the FED cars.

As the FED has a heavier front end, the wishbones have an extra piece of metal welded into the bent bits.... and a change to the link bar between the 2 halves.

When lotus were selling off their stock of old parts there were lots of Fed ones, and no UK ones. Many of us bought and fitted them as they were only a fiver each instead of the £60 for UK parts.

It is more of an 'upgrade' I suppose (except for the extra 100g weight), and shouldn't cause any problems in use.

[Relevance]

Good to know! I have a top LH/Front wishbone A100C0149F from Southwest Lotus Centre that I bought before getting the fed suspension. If I remember to i'll take a picture of both together.

in the meantime... I have another 5 boxes of parts arriving and will be meeting with the techs on Wednesday to go over what I have and what I still need. I'll update with some more pictures and info once that's all done.

[Tuga2112]

just to re-iterate.

is your plan to start driving the car as soon as its possible/safe ? or to do a full out restoration before you experience its drive ?

[Relevance]

just to re-iterate.

is your plan to start driving the car as soon as its possible/safe ? or to do a full out restoration before you experience its drive ?

its a bit of a can of worms. The car is operational and I have driven it, albeit around a parking lot. Previous owner had sent me recent videos of him really pushing it, but I'd rather not do that right off the bat. Ideally, I would start driving it as soon as it is possible/legal (I am going to apply for a title for the car this week). but it goes a bit like this...

currently, the alternator is totally shot. I ordered a replacement from rock auto as well as 1000 other things set to arrive this week. The owner of the shop where my car is (as well as I) want to get moving on the work so it could at least be moved around without needing to be pushed. While its not totally necessary to do so, the technicians want to remove the engine to do the alternator and are of the philosophy of "might as well take care of everything else while i'm here" so I have new belts, pulleys, water pump, thermostat, gaskets, etc ready to be installed.

here's the kicker.... the best time to have the car repainted would be when the engine is out so they can be totally thorough. I reached out to the automobile paint and collision repair teachers at my local vo-tech school to see if they would have any interest in using my car as a "learning experience" since fiberglass must be pretty uncommon in their curriculum. Getting free bodywork and paintwork from them might be a dream but only time will tell. If they cannot or do not want to do it, then the engine would go back in with all its new parts and the car would be "safe" for short trips with the braking and suspension work coming later.

[HJ2]

As long as you are painting the engine bay, then engine-out sounds reasonable.
However for alternator + belts, pulleys, thermostat, waterpump...
it sounds a bit like overkill to me! There are better ways to spend your pennies.

[Relevance]

As long as you are painting the engine bay, then engine-out sounds reasonable.
However for alternator + belts, pulleys, thermostat, waterpump...
it sounds a bit like overkill to me! There are better ways to spend your pennies.

I agree, Henk-Jan - especially since I would rather not clog up one of their lifts for longer than necessary. When I meet with them tomorrow I'm going to bring along the WikiLEC guides about the alternator and such to see what they think. The technicians were formerly with a Ferrari dealer and one of them with Audi so I think their trained natural response is to take the engine out since you need to when you want to do pretty much any repairs on a Ferrari. I'm sure that even if it is overkill, it's "easier" to do everything with the engine out of the car.

these are the parts that I have so far for the engine. Currently working on getting a head gasket from John C. I know there are some repeats/redundancies on this list but I'd rather have a spare gasket or two then have to wait a week for a different one to come in because the one I have didn't fit. For anyone wondering about pricing of parts in the US - everything on this list cost me a total of $245/£197

[Tuga2112]

the technicians want to remove the engine to do the alternator

that is absolutely overkill
removing the prongeron is more than enough to do the alternator

I have new belts, pulleys, water pump, thermostat, gaskets, etc ready to be installed.

not an engine out job. but certianly a lot easier that way.

i understand its your car and your decision. but i fear removing the engine is likely to escalate to a lot more work around bits that will be damaged or are "dry" and will crack. and theres always the risk of fitting something incorrectly etc.

certainly agree to take the engine out if you are getting it painted. if you have the previledge, do it. but also depends on how many hours you want to put into it. Ive never removed an engine from a car. and althoguht i dont think i would struggle given how much of mine has already came out over the years, i certainly would avoid it if i could.

also... worth noting that removing the engine only gives you the advantage of getting the bulkhead looking the same color as the rest of the car. since both bumper a post panels and clam shell come out anyways.

maybe of use to check some of my videos on removing all that stuff, im not saying i do it "right" but i do get it done!

theres another channel on youtube with very good content on the M100. but i dont think theres any body panels on that series. but he certainly covers other topics better than i done.

[Tuga2112]

I Have 77 videos with "m100" on the title, the majority are from the work done on the yellow car and theres a few that are not public.

you proobably will find that the majority of what you want to do is already documented there. and obviously this forum is where i have learned to do what is there (with some exceptions where i do things my own way)

progeron
https://youtu.be/A_tlX3qBbD4
alternator
https://youtu.be/RDwPZmLap0k
refurbishign alternator
https://youtu.be/3byjpkYxGYk
https://youtu.be/RDwPZmLap0k

bonnet and light pods
https://youtu.be/YiIpkWq_2mo
https://youtu.be/9SpOcKbNS-g

rebuilding the jacking points
https://youtu.be/VUH5dKS716E

[Relevance]

i understand its your car and your decision. but i fear removing the engine is likely to escalate to a lot more work around bits that will be damaged or are "dry" and will crack. and theres always the risk of fitting something incorrectly etc.

I couldn't agree more. I'm going to try to plead the case of not removing the engine for this very reason. Since I don't have any sort of paintwork lined up right now it will likely end up being more work than its worth to remove the engine. I'm sure they'll agree since i'm more or less rewriting what my plan was anyway.

I Have 77 videos with "m100" on the title, the majority are from the work done on the yellow car and theres a few that are not public.

you proobably will find that the majority of what you want to do is already documented there. and obviously this forum is where i have learned to do what is there (with some exceptions where i do things my own way)

I did watch a number of your videos both before buying the car and while it was on the ship to try to absorb as much knowledge as I could before I even laid eyes on mine. I passed your alternator video along to them last week to show it can be done with the engine in but forgot to mention that specifically when we spoke on the phone afterwards. I'm going to bring up everything thats been mentioned here and show them the videos in person tomorrow. Going to also try to take better pictures of the underside while I'm at it.

[dapinky]

Not sure if it is mentioned elsewhere on Joaos links, or in this thread somewhere, but although the Impulse alternator is slightly larger in the casing than the Elan alternator, with the prongeron out it will go in easily. Especially if they are already whipping the engine mounting off to get to the timing belt and waterpump.....

..... because that way it is possible to raise the right-hand end of the engine slightly to give even more room to work (10mm of engine lift makes the new unit very easy to fit over the prongeron!). If the alternator is fitted with a larger pulley than the Elan (mine was) then you may need a 713mm belt for it.

Don't forget to tell them that the easiest 'trick' in the whole job is to drain and remove the PAS reservoir and it's mounting bracket, so you can remove the High Pressure pipe to the pump to get the belt cover off easily, and can reach the alternator top bolts without having to thread a spanner through miscellaneous hoses.

[Relevance]

Not sure if it is mentioned elsewhere on Joaos links, or in this thread somewhere, but although the Impulse alternator is slightly larger in the casing than the Elan alternator, with the prongeron out it will go in easily. Especially if they are already whipping the engine mounting off to get to the timing belt and waterpump......

I did mention this to the guys as well as show a brief clip of Joao's alternator video. After some brief discussion, the engine will be..... coming out. The tech had mentioned that when restoring his MR2 last year he took the approach of doing belts/alternator/hoses etc. without removing the engine and said it was a huge mistake, choosing to then remove the engine and finish all the work. When I expressed concerns about breaking other things trying to get the engine out he did not seem worried and said his MR2 had been sitting outside uncovered for years before restoration and they didn't break anything removing the engine. With all of the resources available at the shop it shouldn't take more than 2-3 hours to remove the engine and there will be significant time savings with all of the other work for doing so (his words, not mine).


Anyway.... parts have arrived!

timing belt, misc belts, pulleys, valve cover gasket, fuel filter, water pump, alternator, rear calipers





some previously mentioned parts, a singular wishbone, one strut yoke, raft bearing, other misc parts that I cant remember what they are



Purchased but not pictured: SAMCO hoses, braided brake lines in Kawasaki Green (let my gf choose the coloUr),thermostat, oil filter, more gaskets.

While I was at the shop I also had a quick peek at my ECM so that I could grab my PROM ID for Ron. Anyone want to take a crack at "translating" this? outside of 9930 of course.



There was also this unplugged harness over by the ECM, no idea what it's for but the car was able to run without it.



if you made it this far - enjoy this bonus picture of a new arrival at the shop.

[dapinky]

Jake,

Okay, so the engine is coming out (I wouldn't, but not my job!).... some things to consider:-

Getting the engine out on it's own isn't possible as there is no room to separate it from the gearbox shaft because of it's proximity to the right-side chassis - so it has to come out with the gearbox.

I expect that the driveshafts will be out anyway to do the suspension, but it is worthwhile fitting new output shaft seals to the tranny when re-installing it to the shafts. (They're only a couple of bucks each at Rock auto (and elsewhere, I expect) - do not just get a pair of Impulse ones as they use different sizes left/right - you need two LEFT ones - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 92&jsn=467

There is little room (front/rear) to get the whole lot out without removal of either the inlet plenum or the exhaust manifold/turbo.... it is possible, but not easy.

The three choices are either to remove the exhaust manifold/turbo first, remove the clamshell, or - probably easiest in your case with the other stuff being done - drop it out from under the car.

I can't see it being a 2-3 hour job though!

[Relevance]

Jake,

Okay, so the engine is coming out (I wouldn't, but not my job!).... some things to consider:-

Getting the engine out on it's own isn't possible as there is no room to separate it from the gearbox shaft because of it's proximity to the right-side chassis - so it has to come out with the gearbox.

I expect that the driveshafts will be out anyway to do the suspension, but it is worthwhile fitting new output shaft seals to the tranny when re-installing it to the shafts. (They're only a couple of bucks each at Rock auto (and elsewhere, I expect) - do not just get a pair of Impulse ones as they use different sizes left/right - you need two LEFT ones - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 92&jsn=467

There is little room (front/rear) to get the whole lot out without removal of either the inlet plenum or the exhaust manifold/turbo.... it is possible, but not easy.

The three choices are either to remove the exhaust manifold/turbo first, remove the clamshell, or - probably easiest in your case with the other stuff being done - drop it out from under the car.

I can't see it being a 2-3 hour job though!

Hi Dave,

Believe me, I would rather them leave the engine in as well but the techs are adamant that it is the best path forward given the scale of all of the work being done. I'll mention to them that the gearbox will need to come out too and see if that changes their opinion... I doubt it will since they had just finished reassembling a Ferrari 360CS engine (which im told is a huge PITA) and put it back in the car before I went to talk to them about mine. I don't want anyone to be under the impression that what they are telling me is falling on deaf ears, these guys are top notch mechanics (I believe both have their master certifications from their days at Ferrari) and I think they just don't see taking engine/gearboxes out as a problem since they do it so frequently on cars that have a reputation for being more complicated than ours and have a very well equipped shop.

Thanks for the Rock Auto link - I've started building up a pretty big RA magnet collection from all of the boxes.

as you had mentioned, chances are the whole lot is going to be dropped out from underneath the car, I'll have a stopwatch going to see how long it really takes to get the whole kit and kaboodle out. Maybe seeing that the plan will change to leave the engine in. Either way i'll be glad to have a mechanically "new" car at the end of it.

[Giniw]

these guys are top notch mechanics

Well it's nice, but it's hard to beat 20+ years of experience on a car though. They might be experts on Ferrari, but unfortunately it's a Lotus they might not know at all?
Not that its especially hard to work on the Elan, obviously it's still a big pile of bolts as any car, and if you read the workshop manual first I guess it's no problem to get the engine out.

[dapinky]

Jake,

I'm not suggesting that they can't do the job, and if they think that it is overall a better idea to whip the whole thing out, then it may well be.... and out the bottom is certainly the easiest way as the things that make it difficult to do (driveshafts and prongeron) will be coming off anyway.

I was purely saying that I wouldn't do it that way (but I'm working on my own without a decent 4-post lift!)..... and pointing out the difficulties with taking it out the top with everything still attached.

[Relevance]

these guys are top notch mechanics

Well it's nice, but it's hard to beat 20+ years of experience on a car though.

Assuming you're talking about Dave, it would be impossible to beat the knowledge and experience he has with this car and I am in no way trying to undermine his expertise. My point was more so that if I were doing the work with my own two hands, I would be treating all of the advice I've received like gospel; since I am not, I was trying to just state the car is in the hands of competent mechanics. Given the rarity of Elans in the US I agree with you and do doubt they've ever worked on one, but at the shop they maintain, among other brands, 2 Esprit (one 4cyl, one V8TT) an Exige, and an Evora GT and have familiarity with the headaches that can come with those. Due to the extremely meticulous work of this community, which I am extremely grateful for, I was able to supply them with all of the factory literature which can be invaluable for a project like this.

Jake,

I'm not suggesting that they can't do the job, and if they think that it is overall a better idea to whip the whole thing out, then it may well be.... and out the bottom is certainly the easiest way as the things that make it difficult to do (driveshafts and prongeron) will be coming off anyway.

I was purely saying that I wouldn't do it that way (but I'm working on my own without a decent 4-post lift!)..... and pointing out the difficulties with taking it out the top with everything still attached.

did not interpret it this way so no harm done Once I have a garage to store the Elan in i'll be doing a lot of the future work myself (without a 4 post lift) and will most certainly be in need of your advice!

[Giniw]

these guys are top notch mechanics

Well it's nice, but it's hard to beat 20+ years of experience on a car though.

Assuming you're talking about Dave, it would be impossible to beat the knowledge and experience he has with this car and I am in no way trying to undermine his expertise. My point was more so that if I were doing the work with my own two hands, I would be treating all of the advice I've received like gospel; since I am not, I was trying to just state the car is in the hands of competent mechanics. Given the rarity of Elans in the US I agree with you and do doubt they've ever worked on one, but at the shop they maintain, among other brands, 2 Esprit (one 4cyl, one V8TT) an Exige, and an Evora GT and have familiarity with the headaches that can come with those. Due to the extremely meticulous work of this community, which I am extremely grateful for, I was able to supply them with all of the factory literature which can be invaluable for a project like this.

No worries, I am a bit wary about the pro mechanics (in general, maybe these ones are the best and will read the manual)
I do know it's not easy for you to pass advice/knowledge from here to them.

[Relevance]

(in general, maybe these ones are the best and will read the manual)

everything else aside, one of them has a borderline obsessive collection of service manuals in his box. He's asked for a paper copy of the Elan manuals if I happen to come across them

[Fredjohn]

Download the manual from this site as a pdf, then print off all of it or just the relevant sections.