Old project - old member!

[Doug]

Simultaneous firing would obviously be a far simpler way to go, be nice to link them with the secondaries opening though?

that was my exact thought

[Philbo]

It would be interesting to know what artifical restrictions you've found that hold the stock motor back?...

The main ones are known things like early cracking point of the wastegate, turbo operating out of efficiency, boost restriction to .67bar.

The ones where the control the Haltech gives are particular benefits are massively overrich running at higher boost, and particularly the very late opening of the secondaries. A look at the torque curves is very suggestive of the restriction that the late opening of the secondaries is placing on the inlet side. They're very useful for flexibility at low rpm but when the boost comes in they really should be wide open about 1500-2000rpm earlier than standard. Changing this, coupled with a far more efficient turbo setup, is what is going to deliver the midrange and the driveability I was after.

My car is really very very far from optimal though. Once my car is mapped, a real monster Elan is going to go through the same process, but this one goes way beyond mine. It's had extensive head work, balanced internals, proper high-flow turbo rather than a rebuilt IHI like mine (good for keeping a "stock" looking engine bay, but can't be ideal for internal flow), and it's got a full custom high-flow exhaust system from the block to the tailpipe. The exhaust retains the squished section to get it through the crossmember but the cross sectional area is huge. I've had a lot of help from and interesting chats with the owner of this car (luckily I still had one of my Quaifes when he contacted me) and it should be a real monster when it's unveiled.

When I finally get my car back and have driven it properly, I may be tempted to go for the full exhaust system and head work. The reassuring thing is that the expert engine builder who put this engine together was very complimentary about the components used - forged pistons as standard and a good strong crank. The tolerances on the parts were also exceptional, even on an engine with 100,000 miles.

[Nige]

The monster sounds interesting, anyone we know? Agree with you on the 2 camps. I'm currently in the former but with a Quaife, clutch and flywheel waiting to be fitted and the possibility of a cost effective intercooler upgrade from Turbocharger I have taken the first steps to the dark side already. Also Turbo Dynamics are just down the road from home .

[Philbo]

The monster sounds interesting, anyone we know? Agree with you on the 2 camps. I'm currently in the former but with a Quaife, clutch and flywheel waiting to be fitted and the possibility of a cost effective intercooler upgrade from Turbocharger I have taken the first steps to the dark side already. Also Turbo Dynamics are just down the road from home .

The owner of the monster hasn't made himself known to lec yet, he got in touch with me directly after coming across my now-hideously-outdated web page. He comes with a raft of experience and contacts from working in the engine and turbo field for many years, so his input has been interesting to say the least.

You've nearly given yourself up to the Dark Side Nige indeed A TurboDynamics turbo, injectors and a Haltech will be all you need...the mapping of the ECU taking a lot of dyno time right now (= £££) as it's the first one, but it goes without saying that the map will be available as a starting point for anyone else. However, I should be able to see how my car drives fairly soon, so I'll be able to judge whether it's worth it or not.

[davidjt]

Philbo

I'm curious as to why you retained the original exhaust plumbing - I'd have thought it would be strangling the engine by now, but presumably you've had different advice?

[Philbo]

Philbo

I'm curious as to why you retained the original exhaust plumbing - I'd have thought it would be strangling the engine by now, but presumably you've had different advice?

I'm sure it's now the major bottleneck in the system. The reasons not to have changed it are:

- although it was installed more than 4 years ago, a virtually brand new Paul Matty system currently on the car
- already had all of the engine work done (turbo/downpipe off etc) that would be involved in installing a "stiffy"
- lack of time to organise a full system (that would probably involve dropping the Elan off at Tony Law)
- a desire to simply get the car back in my hands in a driveable state after more than 2 years of having it ECU-less!
- lack of time and energy to do anything about it!

Once I've got the car driveable, I'll compare with the "monster" car that is going to be mapped next, and we'll be able to see from some of the outputs how much of a limitation my exhaust is. If it shows to be significant - and of course if I even want more power - then I can think about sending the car off for a full Tony Law system. Trouble is, Tony Law Exhausts are geographically close to the engine builder who could do some head work, balancing etc...!

It's the project creep that's really put me off to date, I just want to get the car driveable again and drive the thing![/i]

[Dico]

Philbo, I remember reading some of your writeups back in 2003 before i had even purchased my elan.
Great reading both then and now, and i'm glad your back on track with your project.
This power thing is very addictive isnt it .
Hope you go down the upgraded turbo route - I can copy you then!

I currently have -

Quaife
Lightened flywheel
uprated clutch
Stiffy downpipe

All to be fitted in the next couple of months, along with the wilwood brakes.

What should i expect to pay for -

Turbo (from turbo technics)
Haltech
Injectors
mapping
????

Have i missed anything?

Are we talking approx £2000? Worth it in my eyes for 280+ bhp.

Just keep telling yourself how much your neighbours new car is depreceiating

Good luck with the mapping.
Cheers, Dico.

[Philbo]

Philbo, I remember reading some of your writeups back in 2003 before i had even purchased my Elan.
Great reading both then and now, and i'm glad your back on track with your project.
This power thing is very addictive isnt it .
Hope you go down the upgraded turbo route - I can copy you then!

I currently have -

Quaife
Lightened flywheel
uprated clutch
Stiffy downpipe

All to be fitted in the next couple of months, along with the wilwood brakes.

What should i expect to pay for -

Turbo (from turbo technics)
Haltech
Injectors
mapping
????

Have i missed anything?

Are we talking approx £2000? Worth it in my eyes for 280+ bhp.

Just keep telling yourself how much your neighbours new car is depreceiating

Good luck with the mapping.
Cheers, Dico.

Hi Dico

I installed an upgraded turbo about 4 years ago, under the misapprehension that getting an ECU to drive the thing would be relatively simple! After years of waiting for Unichip to come up with promised goods that never materialised, I settled on the Haltech (which to be fair I knew about long before, but I shied away from it as I could not find anyone in the UK who had any experience of mapping it), just as the Haltech (older model) was discontinued...

My upgrades to date are:

[list=]Upgraded turbo built around guts of IHI original using oversized compressor and turbine wheels
Custom intercooler from a friend to the board
Quaife
Stage 3 carbon/Kevlar clutch
Aasco aluminium light flywheel
Haltech E6GMX ECU
Uprated injectors, 440cf/m
3-bar MAP sensor
Paul Matty exhaust
New front OEM wishbones (old ones rusty)
New rear Elan S2 OEM wishbones, galvanised (old ones rusty)
New Gaz dampers
SJS stronger springs (+25%)
Hi-Spec 4-pot racing callipers on 285mm vented grooved discs
Carbon pipes for engine bay
...probably some other bits I've forgotten...
[/list]

BTW, go to Turbo Dynamics in Christchurch, Dorset rather than Turbo Technics. My enquiries 5 years ago all led to them as being the boys, and I had an excellent experience with them. Sy used them too and also has good words to say about them.

Costs:

Upgraded IHI RHB5 unit (swap-out): £600ish
Haltech E6GMX: £500ish
Injectors: £300ish
Mapping: don't know, but armed with my full map it should save the people coming after a load of time and money. I would guess around £400 dyno time to tweak, assuming the site knew their way around the Haltech software.

So a £2000 budget would be reasonable to get from where you are to having these upgrades installed IMO. While the headline power is nice, it's the way in which it's going to be delivered which will really make the difference to the feel of the car.

[Nige]

Dico,

Turbo Dynamics are less than 30 mins from home for me so if you do go this route and I can help or you are in the area then give me a shout.

[Philbo]

Just keep telling yourself how much your neighbours new car is depreceiating

Unfortunately I can look at a couple of new cars doing exactly that by looking at my drive! It doesn't make me feel any much better...

[Dave M]

Philbo! Great to hear the project is rolling again. Mine has taken a similar state of time off (lately due to work) but promises to be running very soon.

As for the injectors, you hopefully will be pleasantly surprised with the larger injectors as I have been. My car starts, idles, and runs at low rpm just fine with the 550s. I know these are overkill in my project (they were originally supposed to be 500s - RC goofed), but I've stuck with them as they've posed no real issue and should be able to be tuned so the high-boost delivery is not so rich.

My $.02 on the crimped downpipe - you'll like the difference the larger diameter makes.

Anxious to hear how things continue to go! Especially the secondaries...hoping to do the same experimenting myself when it hits the dyno. Best of luck!

[Dico]

Thanks for the reply Philbo, i dont want to hijack your thread (may even start my own up) just one more question (for now),
I have the same assco flywheel - did you bother having it balanced? Is it necessary?

Dico,

Turbo Dynamics are less than 30 mins from home for me so if you do go this route and I can help or you are in the area then give me a shout.

Thanks for the offer Nige.
I think it may be a while before i go down the turbo upgrade route. Funds and knowledge are needed. I was hoping you would go first

[Nige]

I might yet beat you to it but the extension being built at home is ahead of the car at present

[Philbo]

Thanks for the reply Philbo, i dont want to hijack your thread (may even start my own up) just one more question (for now),
I have the same assco flywheel - did you bother having it balanced? Is it necessary?

Hi Dico, I didn't bother having the flywheel balanced, I assumed my engine peeps would ensure it was OK. Is it necessary - referring to having it balanced, or having the flywheel at all?

The flywheel is going to spin at very high rpm so any unbalanced element would be very bad news indeed. I'm kind of expecting that it would have been perfectly balanced at source...

As for it is necessary at all, I'm far less concerned about weight than I was a good/compatible gripping surface for the kevlar/carbon clutch. The old flywheel and the Fidenza alternative were known to be a bit iffy, so I was recommended the Aasco as it was supposed to be a good match for the clutch. I haven't had any bad reports yet from the guys putting the car together...