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Track Elan

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:46
by Dave M
A quick background on this thread: it was originally 14 or so pages on the first LEC forum. Unfortunately it was lost when the forum crashed in June 2005. Thanks to Alan and Tony, I was able to reconstruct the thread from backups. Due to the format of the backup, I have grouped the original posts (5 to a “new” post in most cases where space allows) rather than separating each individual one. I have tried to keep quotes of other posts and IDs/times of entries in a logical and consistent format. Some links, emoticons, and most pictures are no longer there, but I will replace where I can.

Some topics covered in this thread through the 6/21/05 post are:

Turbo replacement (Garrett T3)
Cooling system
Aftermarket intercooler (Spearco)
Aftermarket seats (Momo RS GT)
Clutch/flywheel replacement
Dyno results

Thanks to all who posted in the original thread and helped and/or supported me to get the car into what promises to be an improved and very quick state. And again, many thanks to Alan and Tony for being knowledgeable enough about computers to help me get this info back!

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:46
by Dave M
Track Elan-5/7/03

I really don't know what else to call the girl, so since most of the car is being built with road tracks in mind... I've discussed various portions of the car on various threads in the site, and write-ups on pieces are at LEC, but thought I would do a summary of all things here and post updates as they happen throughout the summer (and beyond).

A little background: I bought the car in 1995 from a dealer in Chicago. It was left pretty much alone as far as modification until I found Doug and LEC. Then the corruption began. ;) After returning from Lotus Owners Gathering 19 and the corresponding track day at Watkins Glen, I was determined to make the car into an everyday drivable vehicle that I could also take to the track and make a few heads turn as well as forcing drivers of more expensive machinery into sticking their hand out the window to give the pass signal. After the basic MBC, K&N, EBC brakes upgrades, the car was quick, but needed a touch more to hang with the Esprits in some of our club events. Enter Kip & others @ Isuzone and Kyle @ BlackHole Performance (BHP). With an upgraded turbo and fuel system, the car has become spooky fast and is getting to the limits of FWD grip, even with autocross rubber. Additional input from Philbo and Matt with regard to suspension and exhaust help, and a wonderful program to data log courtesy of Alan, and the car is quickly becoming more than what my original vision could have imagined. As of last November, I dynoed 227.5 HP @ 6000 RPM and 208.6 lb/ft @ 5500 RPM. This was before the intake and exhaust upgrades, any underdrive pulley or flywheel changes, and still running extremely rich. Currently the car is modified as follows:

ENGINE/TURBO
-BHP Stage 1 T3 hybrid turbo
-ported manifold and O2 sensor housing
-RC Engineering 550cc/min injectors
-GM 3-bar MAP sensor
-Replaced EGR system with EGT probe
-Throttle body coolant bypass

INTAKE/EXHAUST
-Custom intake piping connecting a K&N filter and AEM bypass valve to the turbo through 2.5” piping. The air pick up is in the space previously occupied by the stock IC.
-2” custom pipe from the turbo to the FMIC
-Spearco 24.5x8x2.25” intercooler
-2.5” custom pipe from FMIC to throttle body
-Turbonetics Type III plumback BOV routed into intake
-Stage 6 Motorsports 2.5” mandrel exhaust with Magnaflow cat and muffler (thanks, Matt!)
-Bill Sun PCE

SUSPENSION/BRAKES
-GAZ coil-overs
-Custom rear strut tower bar
-Stock 16” OZ wheels
-205/45 16 Kumho V700 autocross tires
-AP Racing 4-piston calipers w/11.75”, 2-piece rotors
-EBC Greenstuff pads (street)
-Hawk Blue pads (track)
-Stainless steel brake lines

OTHER
-AutoMeter boost, oil pressure and EGT gauges
-Apex'i V-AFC fuel controller
-Lambdaboy wide-band O2 monitor
-AutoEurope rollbar
-Momo Racing Line steering wheel
-Momo 4-point racing harnesses
-Momo shift knob

I have some pictures at: http://photos.yahoo.com/themeyersfamily
See the FMIC and General files for the most recent. Others can be found in various write-ups Doug has posted. More to come, but a big thanks to everyone reading this in addition to those mentioned above. You are directly or indirectly involved in helping this project along, and I for sure couldn't have done any of it without you. Whatever knowledge I've gained is yours for the asking, and may I at least get to give you a ride someday as thanks!

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:48
by Dave M
Dave M.|05/07/03 at 08:40:41|moshow|
As for how the car has performed, I was just recently at the Carlisle, PA Compact Car event where the SCCA had a small track set up. The competition was a ~100' drag start and the best lap of a 3 lap run around a 1/4 mi oval with cones. Total lowest combined time won. On the first day of practice, I was dismayed to find the Laminar Concepts Lotus 7 replica (yes...the one from Sport Compact Car's Ultimate Street Car Shootout) was in my class. I didn't see him run that day, and ended trading fast laps with a hot little WRX. On the second day, we had two runs for competition. In between my runs, one of the SCCA guys came up to me and said, “You need to find .2 second.” Apparently I was just behind the 7. I screwed the pooch on lap 2 of 3 on my second run and never did find the .2, but was very pleased to see how the little Elan did against such a car. I'll have the official results later when they post them to see how I ended up against the other cars.

On the other side of the coin, I got 33 mpg running between 75-80 mph on the highway drive home. Made it from the PA/OH state line to the other side of MI on one tank - 360 mi!


|Scott|05/07/03 at 09:43:32|csaguilar
Dave:

You should have let me know you were coming. I had attended the Carlisle show for the past 3 years. I decided against it this year as the crowd was averaging 20 years my junior. Now, I find out, the show is permanently cancelled due to “spring break” type activities. I am going to the Import/Kitcar show on the 18th. They too have racing at that event (I took 2nd last year in my class). The last I recall, the Elan is still an “import.” –Scott


|Dave M.|05/07/03 at 09:54:06|moshow
Sorry! It would have been great to have you there with another Elan. Most folks remembered you from years prior. FWIW, the crowd was still young enough - made me feel old! Traffic was insane, and getting from one end of the fairground where I was judged to where the track was involved creeping through mobs of people. I partially wore-out my clutch in the process. A cool event, though. Hopefully its equivalent will sprout up somewhere close.


|paul_busek|05/07/03 at 11:27:16|paul_busek
Just checked out your pictures and saw the one of your resprayed valve cover. I'm gonna copy/pinch your idea with the file and Dremel and remove Isuzu! - whats that about imatation and flattery?Did you have to use high temp paint for the cover?


|Dave M.|05/07/03 at 12:36:39|moshow|
Actually, the black was a copy on my part, too! There was a story going around a while back about some Elans with black valve covers and if the engines were different. Apparently when Lotus USA trained the dealers on the 4EX1-T, it was done up in a similar way. I thought it was a neat story and the black goes well with my Monaco White. Yes, I used high-temp paint. Due to hurrying to complete it before a show, I didn't clear coat it (mistake). It will hold up to cleaning better if you do. I'm going to pull it again in a few weeks, give it a light sanding and another coat of black, then about 4-5 coats of clear. FWIW, I reused my cover's gasket. It is rubber and was in very good shape. Just make sure you buy some gasket material and put a little drop in each corner made by where the cams go through (8 in all). It will help seal it up good as new.

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:49
by Dave M
|StormStylz|05/07/03 at 16:17:58|StormStylz
Hey Dave, I am glad you had a good time at Carlisle too bad it sounds like there will be no such thing next year. Anyway you never got back to me on how you like the Fidanza Flywheel after you got it in. What I do know is that you more than likely had to relearn your shift points, I love it when that happens ;) Let me know what you thought about it on the Elan.Shaun



|Dave M.|05/13/03 at 05:49:42|moshow
Well, the clutch has officially started to take a dump. I drove to work this morning and the car sounded like it had two turbos. The T3 spooled, and I heard another whizzing sound as the boost rose. I got off the gas immediately so as not to “remove” the stock clutch in pieces through the hood, firewall, etc. Looks like track days are done until I can put the money together to have things worked on. Not sure I want to take this project on (clutch, flywheel, LSD) myself. I don't mind learning, but it's the time factor...I have little free in the summer.


|Philbo|05/13/03 at 12:41:54|Philbo
Dave, these are the links I dug up when I was wishfully thinking I could source a Quaife and was going to change the clutch at the same time...

http://www.clutchspecialties.com
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/isuzu_impulse.html




|Dave M.|06/08/03 at 04:23:07|moshow
Due to recent crummy weather and some free time Friday night, I put the girl back on stands. The clutch will be soon be changed out, the Fidanza flywheel added, the rear calipers rebuilt, the underdrive pulley installed, and the intercooler pipes sent to Jet Hot. Kind of crazy to be doing this in the middle of driving and track season, but the clutch is forcing the issue. I'll let you know how things go.||



|Dave M.|09/12/03 at 12:39:38|moshow
My, my...where do I start? First, an apology for being gone so long. Between a crazy summer at work, starting an investment/retirement advisory company, acting as controller on a third, then trying of balance family and summer travels, I have had a wicked fast season. Last I checked in, the Elan was in the middle of a clutch/differential/flywheel replacement. Everything went well on the Quaife install, the Fidanza flywheel went in fine, and the clutch replacement was relatively simple. Everything was bolted up after a LONG day of work with a very good and patient friend, the car started fine, but there was lots of resistance in the clutch pedal.
Finally after a few adjustments were made, a loud SNAP was heard and the pedal was limp. **Insert expletives here**Long story short: after removing the entire transmission AGAIN the culprit was assumed to be a bent clip that retains the throwout bearing. It allowed the bearing to engage too far and get caught on the tapered input shaft. The “SNAP” was the weekend before LOG. Needless to say, I didn't go. Instead I spent the weekend reinstalling the trans AGAIN. AND fixing a coolant leak...but that's another rant. A happy end to the saga, however. Everything's in and working fine. The clutch disc slips at anything over 12 psi, but apparently that will happen while it's new and seats with the new flywheel and pressure plate surfaces. I'm just biding my time at low power until things really grab and I can get to the dyno. Apparently that will be in ~500 miles of city driving. Grrr.... Initial runs with the Quaife prove it to be awesome, even at “low” power.
Best I can describe is the car seems to be even more on rails, if you know what I mean. You get the feeling of being pulled around the corner rather than pushed into it. It's making cornering capability truly beyond what I'm comfortable with (at this point ;) ).
That means it's just right! Despite the slipping clutch, the car still had the nads to toast a modded 2G Eclipse. Add that to our list of “kills” (my first on the street, believe it or not). After the clutch fiasco, I kinda burnt out. It was time to spend more time with my kids, I took a motorcycle trip with my dad, then work ate whatever time was left. Story of my summer, eh? But I vow to get this clutch broken in and have some reports on what all the modifications have summed to.
I've got at least one track day in October, so the Quaife will get fully analyzed whether or not I'm running full power. “Full power” will mean somewhere in excess of 22 psi now that the big FMIC is keeping things cool. I also will be more of a regular on the board. I've missed you all, and hopefully with schedules settling down I'll have more time to keep up with everything here. It's good to be back...

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:51
by Dave M
|Dave M.|09/12/03 at 12:44:32|moshow
Oh, yeah! I've updated with some pics. The finalized engine bay is at http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... pg&.view=t Check the Lotus-General folder at the following for some other shots of the exhaust and a template to start a windblocker for the rollbar (no that's not the finished product) http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themeyersfamily/||




|Sy|09/12/03 at 14:08:30|Simon_V
Dave You're obviously on a high and we are all envious of your additions...but, that clutch doesn't sound right to me. I've replaced a few in my time (admitedly not on an Elan) but I've never heard of a new clutch slipping and needing to bed in to stop. Are you sure you're right? I hope you are, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pee on your strawberries...



|AV8NDOC|09/12/03 at 15:31:07|AV8NDOC
[quote author=Sy link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=0#12 date=09/12/03 at 14:08:30]I'm not trying to pee on your strawberries...[/quote]

Tickles just thinking about it. Dave, looks as tho you mounted the new rear calipers--is the washer-weld properly functional? I still need to mount mine and it's either a washer weld to the tip of the new one or perhaps removing the OE arm and washer weld to its base to create a stop? BTW, nice piping job--now you need a “heat extraction” cut-out in the hood like I gots on da Evo--you can see the wavy heat coming up from it when you stop = kinda cool (pun intended!). Hope you can make some more video of the new Monster Elan on the track!



|john|09/14/03 at 14:01:09|john
Dave- what clutch did you go with? It shouldn't be slipping immediately after putting it in. None of my RS's did that, and neither have many other friends of mine who own different cars (mild to 600HP)



|Dave M.|09/15/03 at 07:49:07|moshow
Thanks for the info on the clutch guys! That's the general opinion I've gotten from most everyone but ClutchSpecialties. We'll see what happens in the next week... FWIW, I had a rip early this Saturday morning on my 35 mile “test loop” (fun, curvy local roads). Everything from 45 MPH 90 degree uphill corners to 90 MPH essess to one, quick 130MPH blast. Two impressions: 1) The car began to hold 15 psi more frequently, so the clutch seems to be getting better. 2) Quaife + GAZ = spooky fun. I cannot wait to get this thing on the track. Road driving is transformed from tossable, forgiving, quick car to G-force rocket on rails. The ride is a touch less comfy (however, keeping the stock springs traded absolute performance for some comfort) but until you push it both in handling and acceleration/deceleration, it feels much like the stock car. It also feels just as forgiving. I'll be able to push it more on the track to really verify, though. Don't want to be picking weeds out of the FMIC. ::) Doug, I've thought quite a bit about venting the hood ala the EVO or the Elise. I'm also thinking of incorporating a tray under the car to smooth airflow a touch, as well as incorporating some NACA ducts to suck air out of the engine bay/radiator. Less heat is definitely a good thing. And yes, there will be more video. ;D

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:52
by Dave M
|Dave M.|10/16/03 at 18:22:26|moshow
After some track time this weekend, the clutch appears to be holding quite well. I didn't notice much slip at all. Go figure! That apparently cured, I've got a dyno session Monday morning (10/20). Hopefully good news to come...


|Dave M.|10/20/03 at 17:44:19|moshow
Dyno #2 is in the books...or “on the computer” as it were. Things turned out as good as I was hoping they would. As he reported with his car, Philbo was spot on with his findings - the exhaust made a world of difference. HP and especially torque were up quite a bit. The gains also are due to lower intake temps as I have made no adjustments to the MBC from last year. Results are at the wheels:

max HP - up 28 to 255.9 @ 6600 rpm
max Torque - up 34 to 242.1 @ 5200 rpm

The best HP and torque gains were both at 4900 rpm. 47 HP and 49 lb/ft!
Both measurements were up over all the recorded rev range (4400 rpm+, for some reason last year's dyno started at lower rpm), so obviously the turbo was spinning quicker, sooner thanks to the exhaust. The dyno tech said that the choice of 2.5” exhaust was a good one as it had just enough backpressure to help produce the torque we saw. The other amazing stat from the logs was how much lower the intake temps were. The two runs last year had increases of 21 and 34 degrees C over the course of the dyno run. This year, the increases were 8 and 13 degrees C. This was also with outside air temps being +10 degrees F. Yes, the FMIC blocks some air to the radiator, but it appears to be quite effective. One last interesting fact I came across: it took about 1/2 sec less to run through the same rpm range as last year. Probably due to the power increase, but also the new flywheel. Jason was good enough to host the scans of the graphs and also has video of the dyno computer (which doesn't seem to be accurate) during both runs. You can hear the car howling in the background. Both start out with me shifting up, then you hear the guy say “OK” and the run begins. It's slow to accelerate at first due to the load, but then you hear it go up quickly starting at about 3500+ as the turbo really hits. The runs/graphs are at:

http://www.stormowners.com/Elan/DynoRun1.MPG Dyno Run #1
http://www.stormowners.com/Elan/DynoRun2.MPG Dyno Run #2
http://www.stormowners.com/Elan/DynoData.jpg Dyno Data Sheet
http://www.stormowners.com/Elan/DynoGraph.jpg Dyno Graph

On the data sheet you'll see a max of 257.3, but that appears to be a fluke at 7000 rpm. Check the flat HP curve at 5400-6900 rpm. Only +/- 6 HP! Thanks again to everyone who's helped on this board and for the enthusiasm you all have. I'd never have gotten this nuts about it without you all!

To be continued...



|AV8NDOC|10/20/03 at 18:09:16|AV8NDOC
That is fantastic, Dave! Awesome power - want to upgrade my Elan too? ::) Sweet exhaust tunes from the video--I was rooting you on just listening! The good thing is that you will get even MORE power when “at speed” from proper IC functioning (as you likely know)!! Now you have some proof for the SCCCI hate to think my Elan graph looks like your old one. Want to come to any CA track events??||



|Dave M.|10/20/03 at 20:32:26|moshow
Hey, if I can do it, anyone can do it! That was the beauty of the BHP kit and the other things I used, almost everything was “bolt on”. Granted the intake piping took a little time, but if you can find someone to do what Kyle did with the turbo (or go the route that Philbo's doing), it really doesn't require much fabrication. Just lots of patience and some tools! And yes, I would like to get to a CA event! Let me know when the Laguna Seca date(s) are and we'll see what we can work out for 2004! I think that might be a have-to-do...


|Dave M.|11/24/03 at 18:20:27|moshow
Had a great time over the weekend in the Elan, and not too soon either! We had 3” of snow today! Saturday morning I got up at the break of dawn (no traffic) and ran my usual twisting loop of roads. Then I went to my favorite deserted stretch of farmland-straight road to make a couple 1/4 mile runs to measure things using the G-Tech and ElanScan together. Despite it being 40 degrees and getting very limited grip on takeoff, I got some good info. It appears ElanScan and the G-Tech are fairly close if you want to crunch a few numbers in the ElanScan data. I basically took a log that included three separate runs, expanded the detail of each specific run, and by setting the x-axis to distance and the y to time and speed, I was able to get a rough estimate of 0-60 and 1/4 mi. I'm not a drag racer by any means (and if you saw me start, you'd have no doubt), but I wanted to compare some data I had from the stock turbo and MBC G-Tech runs I had from 2 years back. Then, on a 78 degree day I ran a best 14.25 1/4 mi @ 106 mph. 0-60 was 6.0. Saturday was 40 degrees (!) and I ran a best 13.3 @ 110 mph (per G-Tech), 13.0 @ 110 (ElanScan) with a 0-60 of 5.6. The other two runs were very close as well between the G-Tech and Alan's awesome logger. Granted, I'm comparing apples to well, slightly different apples as the temp difference made for lots of spin at the start, but considering it's ~1 sec faster in the 1/4, I was pleased. Can't wait for warmer weather to try again...uh, in like 5 months! A few other notes: I noticed after all was said and done, the V-AFC recorded a max boost of 1.56 bar at one point in the morning run. ElanScan confirmed this to be during one of the 1/4 mi runs (I didn't log any of the twisties). The FMIC seems to work a treat. Max temp rise during the 1st through 4th gear runs at full boost was +16 C. A similar run from last year (same outside temp) showed an increase of +27 C for intake temps. I also got some video of the misbehavior. ::) The cold made the camera mount shake horrible, but turned out to be some good audio. Zoom, zoom! This may be it for the year, but at least it went out on a fun note.

I'll be living vicariously through you all in warmer climates for the next few months, so please, lots of driving stories, OK?

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:53
by Dave M
|Dave M.|01/19/04 at 05:22:45|moshow
FYI - an update on where things are at the moment: I have removed the transmission (again - hey, I'm getting good at this!) and will be calling Clutch Specialties on a new disc and the serious pressure plate today. I will also be calling Crane to inquire on their ignition upgrade with timing control to see if it will work with our car. This is the HI-6 TRC unit. The condenser, radiator, and fans are all out and the measurements will begin to get a new, high capacity radiator. It's amazing how much room there is in front once everything is out! All to do with the design of the US car that has the condenser/radiator at an angle due to the 5 mph crash “protection”. Finally, I pulled the turbo to make sure all is well (it is). Somewhere along the line last year half of the EGT probe “disappeared”. I feared the turbine chewed the piece and itself up as it passed, but looks fine. I may talk to a local shop about getting a water-cooled bearing section (it's oil-only now) installed... For pics of the carnage, see the usual link: http://photos.yahoo.com/themeyersfamily and the “project” folder.


|Mark|01/19/04 at 21:56:31|mark
so you are doing dry runs for the Quaife installation by pulling out the tranny now? I spent this weekend helping my son pull the trans out of his eclipse. After working for several hours to maneuver the blasted thing around a frame section that was blocking the removal, I vowed never to do this kind of job again. how much work to get the Elan trans out?


|Dave M.||01/20/04 at 05:45:58|moshow
I know my limitations, Mark...I had someone else do the Quaife install! ;) I just pulled the trans to save a few $$$. The Elan trans is not too hard to get out, provided you have a few specific tools/items. Bolt-wise, a standard set of wrenches and sockets (including 15/17/19mm) with a universal joint are all you need. The trick is having enough jack stands to support things as you start to unbolt everything, and some sort of safe lift mechanism to lower the trans once completely unbolted. The key thing is time. You have to remove the front crossmember, the upper hub links in the suspension, and the (US) driver's side axle among other things. Not too difficult and I can walk anyone through it, but it's not an evening project. Once it's out, then take it to a shop for the Quaife install!


|Dave M.||03/09/04 at 04:56:32|moshow
Despite spending most of my time at work lately, I have gotten a few things done. 1) The transmission is back in and bolted up. 2) I finished the mods to the gear selector I had bodged myself. Basically I removed the 4 rubber mounts for the shifting mechanism and replaced them with solid pieces (modified washers). Gives the car a bit more “solid” feel to the shifter, though I've not been on road with it yet. 3) While removing things to get at the radiator, I noticed what appear to be leads for driving lights (they appear to be stock leads?). I followed the wiring all the way up to a relay behind the power steering fluid tank. Not using the leads I pulled them out of the front, through the fender, and tucked them neatly away in a nook behind the shock tower. I was also able to relocate the lead for the side marker lights to the lower grommet on the left side of the engine bay (same one for O2 sensor lead and left headlights). Since my boost transducer is gone, this totally cleaned up the top grommet (no more wires), and gives the bay a cleaner look. I also removed an unused weatherpack connector that sat down by the engine mount. See pics of #2 and #3 at the bottom of: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... us-General


|AV8NDOC||03/09/04 at 09:52:19|AV8NDOC|
[quote author=Dave M. link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=15#25 date=03/09/04 at 04:56:32]2) I finished the mods to the gear selector I had bodged myself. Basically I removed the 4 rubber mounts for the shifting mechanism and replaced them with solid pieces (modified washers). Gives the car a bit more “solid” feel to the shifter, though I've not been on road with it yet.[/quote]

Translation = feels good while I scream “VRROOOOMMMM” in the garage running thru the gears with the car up on blocks!”

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:54
by Dave M
|Dave M.||03/09/04 at 14:44:37|moshow[quote author=AV8NDOC link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=15#26 date=03/09/04 at 09:52:19] Translation = feels good while I scream “VRROOOOMMMM” in the garage running thru the gears with the car up on blocks!”[/quote]
Crap...I didn't think anyone heard me. :-[


|Dave M.||03/23/04 at 17:50:37|moshow
Despite being incredibly busy during the past few weeks, I have been able to get a few things done on the car. The first thing has been getting measurements to get the radiator on order. I’ve gone through a company in the Chicago area (who sponsors our Lotus Corps club) named Revcore. A very helpful guy named Tim is putting together a new unit for me that will have approximately twice the capacity of the stock radiator. He’s taken a great deal of time to careful talk through the sizing and construction with me to make sure it will be what I need – a really great guy. He and I have come up with a fairly easy solution of how to mount things. I’ll still use the stock, triangular bracket that currently holds the condenser and radiator, but with some slight changes. The intercooler will stay in its same position, but the condenser and radiator will stand straight up behind the IC, similar to the UK cars’ setups. I’ve worked it out so I have almost as much clearance as stock. Only a few modifications need to be made to connect the A/C lines, and I can even use the bottom four mounting points for the cooling fans. Definitely lucked out not having to do major work on a custom bracket! The following pic shows a “test fit” of the IC and condenser. The radiator will fit in behind. http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... m=5084.jpg

The other item that I’ve been pondering is the MSD DIS-2 ignition upgrade/timing control. I believe the easiest place to mount it will be the glove box, which I rarely use. Along with the timing features of the MSD, there are a couple other neat things you can do with it, too. Besides the programmable rev limiter for redline, it has two other programmable limits that can be manually switched and are meant for drag racing (a burnout limit, and a launch limit). I won’t be dragging the car, but I do plan on hooking up one switch to control a launch limit. I thought a stock switch in one of the many blank locations would work pretty trick. It could be a very basic traction control if set and used correctly. I’ll put it right in front of the gearshift in 1st gear position. Could make for some great holeshots…
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... m=618e.jpg
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... m=849c.jpg
That's my ElanScan cable hanging out of the box, too. The other thing I thought might be neat would be to mount some DB9 connectors right into the dash (maybe hidden by one of the blank switch plates). One for ElanScan and one for the MSD connection to program things. It is way down on my list of things to do, but it would be very convenient. Maybe next winter…I’ve got enough to do to get the car on the road! I'll get more pics as things come along.


|Dave M.||05/05/04 at 13:08:17|moshow
Wow...I've been away too long! Busy season this year officially kicked my butt. After 4/15 I took 1 1/2 weeks to reaquaint myself with my family, and am slowly getting back to normal. Constant 70-80 hour weeks take odd tolls on you... Anyway, the Elan IS progressing. With any luck she'll be ready to fire up this weekend. I have received the new radiator and have most modifications done for it to fit. The test fits have worked better than I could have hoped. I dropped the chopped-up stock radiator bracket/hanger off at the welder's today and he promised to have it done Friday. The bracket/hanger needed to be modified in a few ways, but it's amazing how many other stock bits I'll still be able to use. (i.e. - the stock fans will be in and will use the stock mounts). The IC, condenser, and radiator will now all be mounted straight up and down and very close to promote better airflow through each piece. Anxious to try it out! I've got a number of pictures to post but need to get the car done first in order to make a 5/17 track day. It'll be trial by fire for the new rad! Glad to be back...I missed the gang here. I've got lots of threads to catch up on. :-/


|Dave M.||05/06/04 at 04:20:19|moshow
OK, so I posted a few before getting the car running.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... r=/project
Play “name the part” with pic 02918.

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:55
by Dave M
|AV8NDOC||05/06/04 at 10:28:45|AV8NDOC|
Which part?? The rusty one or the dirty one??


|Dave M.||05/06/04 at 12:33:47|moshow[quote author=AV8NDOC link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=30#31 date=05/06/04 at 10:28:45]the rusty one or the dirty one??[/quote]

Hey, now! There's at least a nice, shiny IC pipe in that mess. :-[


|Matthew Welsh|05/06/04 at 14:05:36|Guest|
Looks like the work of Jet-Hot to me. Can't believe he didn't send the rusty turbo outlet pipe to them as well for bead-blasting & coating while he had it removed. I wish my ex. manifold & turbo outlet pipe were Jet-Hotted.


|AV8NDOC||05/06/04 at 14:21:58|AV8NDOC|
exactly why I couldn't undertake such a project; I'd have to strip and refurb each dingy car part I'd find. Dave doesn't have this disease (luckily) like we do, Matt!


|Dave M.||05/13/04 at 09:12:58|moshow
Dingy parts aside, I have one nicely painted, new radiator in the car and operational. After all connections were made (less the IC and related piping), I started the car yesterday for the first time since Dec. Never ceases to amaze me that for the 3rd year in a row of not running for 3+ months, the scenario goes like this: Connect battery, turn key to accessory setting to prime fuel pump, car starts on first try and idles just fine, Dave stands back with big, stupid grin on face. Blew me away that all undone and reused connections are holding fine in the cooling system. I noticed a big difference in capacity when filling it this time. Usually got the better part of a gallon of water/coolant/Redline Water Wetter (<--- good stuff!) in before. This time it took 1 1/2 gallons. Need to get it on the road to test the effectiveness, but it took over 10 minutes idling to get to the 1/2 mark. That *won't* be the case when under boost... Bled the brakes and got a nice, firm pedal - so that's ready for track time on Monday. Only one small issue with the speedo needle sticking a bit on the new gauge faces, but that may go away with use. I'm very pleased regardless. Tonight I will fab the new IC mounts and get the front end on. Should be able to drive tomorrow!

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:56
by Dave M
05/13/04 at 09:14:32|moshow|Ashaman|05/13/04 at 10:58:10|Ashaman
Great, glad to hear you got everything slapped back together! Good luck on Monday, hope you have an enjoyable, safe time! Joshua Lawrence


|Mark||05/15/04 at 17:53:39|mark|[quote author=Dave M. link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=30#35 date=05/13/04 at 09:12:58] Connect battery, turn key to accessory setting to prime fuel pump, car starts on first try and idles just fine, Dave stands back with big, stupid grin on face. [/quote]

I know exactly how you feel - after a very frustrating couple weeks of putting in the new turbo, running into a whole host of problems and finally getting everything reassembled today, she turned over on the first twist of the key! I was elated! now to finish sorting out the little niggling problems...


|Dave M.||05/18/04 at 08:05:00|moshow
After getting back from the track day, there's good and bad to report on the cooling system. It handles everyday, bumper-to-bumper, and in-town driving just fine (and Chicago traffic jams when 80 degrees outside). Track events are another issue, however. Again, it just couldn't keep up. I was able to get about 1 full hot lap in before the needle was at the 3/4 mark. It felt like F1 qualifying -go out on a warm-up lap, run one hard lap for time, then a cool down lap. Then do it again. It sucked. There's enough flow and capacity to cool down in normal, medium-boost driving, but when running heavy boost for periods of time, the radiator needs more air. Could also be hot air coming off the intercooler when under boost that then passes through the rad contributing to the problem. I'm calling Spearco to see what kind of residual temps are typical. So, I need your opinions and ideas. I figure my options are: 1) Run less boost when running on-track (yeah, right...). 2) Cut larger hole in front bumper for more air (I'm with Richard on basically keeping the car visually stock, but form may need to follow function) 3) Replace current FMIC with smaller unit 4) Replace current FMIC with smaller water-to-air unit 5) Sell car and buy US Elise (no...no...I'm just kidding!) 6) Other? I am going to pull off the front bumper, remove the condenser (which is in front of the rad at the moment), and run the car hard to see if it's a flow issue with the small front bumper opening. If it is, option #2 may have to work. If not, we'll see. Thanks, all. For a bit more on the track day, see:
http://www.lotuselancentral.com/cgi-bin ... ;start=0#1
PS – oh, yes...speaking of suck, I'm also pretty sure I blew out the front driver's side GAZ strut.


05/18/04 at 08:11:37|moshow|Dave M.||05/18/04 at 08:07:47|moshow[quote author=Mark link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=30#37 date=05/15/04 at 17:53:39] I know exactly how you feel - after a very frustrating couple weeks of putting in the new turbo, running into a whole host of problems and finally getting everything reassembled today, she turned over on the first twist of the key! I was elated! now to finish sorting out the little niggling problems... [/quote]

Anxious to hear how things start to sort out! Congrats, Mark.


|AV8NDOC||05/18/04 at 09:21:24|AV8NDOC|
Dave, some ideas: how about some cooling liquid sprayed on the radiator during driving, such as water or even NOS!!? wonder if a better water pump would make a difference--I remember George (CA) put a Mercedes one in and said it went in fine and was higher flow--he left the part number--might be in the old MB? 8)

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:58
by Dave M
|ElanScanMan|05/18/04 at 09:38:28|ElanScanMan|
This cooling problem is a bit of a git. Like Doug says a higher flowrate of water would help (not so sure about spraying NOS on the radiator though. You could also run the fans full time at the track to slow the heat-up a bit and - for a truely bodge-tastic solution - install higher flow fans (you might end up with a propellor on the front though ;))

05/18/04 at 09:39:50|ElanScanMan|Dave|05/18/04 at 09:55:27|Dave|
Daft idea time ;) IMHO flow is the issue. Remove the thermostat? :-/ It should be possible to find a remote housing to make it easier to switch.


|Dave M.||05/18/04 at 10:19:31|moshow[quote author=ElanScanMan link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=30#41 date=05/18/04 at 09:38:28]You could also run the fans full time at the track to slow the heat-up a bit and - for a truely bodge-tastic solution - install higher flow fans (you might end up with a propellor on the front though ;))[/quote]

Joshua and I did try this at the track. We grounded the fan switch from the thermostat so when the car was started, the fans always ran. It really didn't do much, sadly. Though I still plan on install a dash mounted switch for the future. Higher flow fans are a good idea, though. Anyone know the cfm of our stock ones? ::) As for a higher flow pump, would this help much? It seems you'd want to push the water through the block quicker, but yet keep it in the radiator longer? Good idea, though - another question to ask Tim @ Revcore!


|Ashaman||05/18/04 at 11:11:16|Ashaman|
|RAR! My message has been erased because I forgot to log in first! So now the shortened version... Doug, I think maybe that was for the auxillary cooling pump, the one that runs when the key is in the “off” position...? You might be able to adapt an electric racing pump (Jeggs has some that flow 37 GPM)...I am not sure how complicated it would be though. It would be hard to tell if that would help ahead of time how much it would help it seems like.....if insufficient airflow is the problem, then the inlet/outlet temps of the radiator should be close on the track, so will flowing more coolant through that area really help? (I am asking, I sure don't know)


|ElanScanMan|05/18/04 at 11:34:23|ElanScanMan|
I have to admit I'm not sure if pumping the coolant round faster would help or not. Rob C is the man to ask about this. He's a chemical engineer and will know all about heat exchangers etc.


|clemof1|05/18/04 at 14:11:39|clemof1|
i spoke to a chap at redline uk today, i got (gearbox and engine oil thanks to doug for write up) anyway getting back to the point..] they have a new product that they are sending me to try!! which is called water wetter. this stops bubbles from forming in your engine (rather like the heating element in a kettle) that then causes less pressure and should stop the engine from running as hot (for full spec ask them ) he claims that all the caterham k series boys use them on track as when there cars get hot the ecu retards the fireing and makes the car slower to compensate ... (yet again full spec from redline but that was the gist of it ) so this may be of use to you track heads or anyone who wants to keep there car cooler... my reason for trying it , well my car did get hot , i have now put in a new rad, temp sensor , termostat and cts so it should run better , but i will use it without for a month and then drop it in to see if there is any difference........... hope this is of use to you.. good luck

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 03:59
by Dave M
clemo05/18/04 at 14:12:24|clemof1|AV8NDOC||05/18/04 at 19:36:35|AV8NDOC|
Dave, I was giving your situation some more thought and came up with some ideas: Given that the fluid dynamics formula is something like heat extraction = transferred heat X flow; we don't know the exact flow rates--wonder if there's flow rates on our water pump Vs. RPM somewhere. Regardless the important thing I realized is that the dash temp gauge is positioned at the engine head EXIT, so it showing warm/hot may not necessarily be a bad thing. What you need to investigate is placing a coolant temp gauge in the IN side of the head (after the radiator). This way you can tell: (1) if the radiator is cooling properly--its efficiency should be known, but again we don't know the flow rate, so you could perhaps get better heat extraction from higher flow thru the radiator still?? (2) how much heat the coolant is extracting from the engine = if it goes in cool and comes out piping hot this wouldn't be a bad thing if the radiator can keep up with it!! Some good ElanScan plots of the coolant temp Vs. speed and boost may help a bit. I know you have an EGT, so you can see how hot the heads should be getting. The bottom line = another coolant temp gauge on the other side of the engine would help with data &amp; flow rate of water pump would help determine if switching it would help.

FWIW George's water pump was the engine pump and not the aux pump--I remember he quoting something like 2X flow rate. Certainly it'd be a bitch of a job to do. It just seems like you should be able to get better cooling with the system you have made . . .


|nitroman|05/18/04 at 20:48:25|nitroman|
Dave, the doc up & nails the scientific approach! I have to wonder how much air is flowing through your rad? You slapped a big fat IC in front of it, right? Plus the rad. is thicker than stock as well. I had always considered the Elan bullet-proof when it came to temp-control, perhaps the only British car ever made that way! Anywho, at speed it always stayed at a rock-solid 1/4 on the gauge, but that was in good-old moisture-laden Florida. Here in low-humidity Atlanta it will go ever so slightly above that mark on a hot day at prolonged triple-digit speeds.


|Dave M.||05/19/04 at 05:32:43|moshow
Clemo - you're right about Redline Water Wetter. Great stuff and it did a great job when I had my old IC in there. I can only imagine what the situation would be like without it now! I'd recommend it regardless if people ever got on track or not. Doug - great idea with the extra sensor. I wonder how much heat the engine is adding and how much heat the FMIC is adding. I was reading on Turbonetics' site that 30 psi could equate to 400 degrees F and 15 psi = 275 degrees. That means I'm somewhere in the 320 degree range, if it's linear. Knowing from the dyno that I'm seeing 100-120 F intake temps, the IC is scrubbing lots of heat away. That heat is then going into the radiator. I didn't get a chance to talk to Turbonetics or the radiator shop yesterday to see if this sounds reasonable, but I will today. See the following about air-water ICs: http://www.turboneticsinc.com/liquid.html

The chart at the bottom seems to support my fear about flow being higher. When CFM is greater, the temp out is higher. Wouldn't this mean in my situation the coolant would have less time to dissipate heat when going through the rad or absorb heat when going through the block? That's where I need to check with Tim @ Revcore... Good point on the EGT, too. I've kept a close eye on that, too. My temps are ~1200F under heavy boost, which I believe is low (thanks to the rich a/f condition). Matt - yes, I did screw up flow by installing the FMIC. However running at any speed above 35 mph, the needle stays around the 1/4 mark. It'll get hot in stop and go, but cool right down as soon as I'm moving again (just like stock). Running at 80-90 mph on the highway just puts me a tick over 1/4. This is making me think that it's part the residual heat from the IC. Granted, the engine is also making lots more heat when under boost, too. I'll know more after a few calls today...


|Peter W|05/19/04 at 11:07:18|Peter_W|
Dave, Doug's temperature sensor idea sounds like good logic - getting accurate info. can identify if there is a problem - as I recall being mentioned on this site the Elan temp. gauge displays a narrower temp. range than other marques - thus rising from 1/4 to 3/4 can cause concern - while on another vehicle the same temp. rise may cause a smaller movement in the gauge. If it turns out there is problem with the operating temp., I agree with your thought that the cause would be the IC exchanging heat to the airflow going to the radiator -similar to racing under boost through desert heat - the heat transfer from the radiator to the airflow would be reduced. Under your setup it does not look possible to get direct air to the radiator even with opening up the front. A couple of ideas: 1. Would you have room for an auxiliary radiator where the original intercooler was - since I believe your air intake is there maybe there's not much room or the airflow would mostly be going into the engine. 2. An upgraded oil cooler?


|Brian_MDB|05/19/04 at 23:37:41|Brian_MDB|
Dave Just out of interest, what was your average lap speed?

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 04:00
by Dave M
|Dave M.||05/20/04 at 05:40:56|moshow[quote author=Brian_MDB link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=45#51 date=05/19/04 at 23:37:41]Dave Just out of interest, what was your average lap speed?[/quote]

Just about 80 mph. Mostly mid-to high rpm in 3rd gear (I never shifted into 2nd) and one long straight where I get into 5th.


|Candles|05/21/04 at 11:34:39|Candles|
Stupid question; Has it got any of the air conditioning stuff in it still?


|Dave M.||05/23/04 at 16:48:38|moshow|xx|0|67.217.92.163|[quote author=Candles link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=45#53 date=05/21/04 at 11:34:39]Stupid question; Has it got any of the air conditioning stuff in it still?[/quote]

Actually that's a good question - and yes, it does. I can't bear to take it out knowing it'll come in handy some hot day. If I were a true, all-out track nut, I'd pull the AC, as well as lots of other weight. That, or just get the Elise.


|AV8NDOC||05/23/04 at 23:07:16|AV8NDOC[quote author=Dave M. link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=45#54 date=05/23/04 at 16:48:38] . . . That, or just get the Elise.[/quote]

Too many Elise references lately, Dave. Better calm down or I'll have to let yer wife in on that plan.


|Dave M.||05/24/04 at 17:07:29|moshow|
Just kidding on the Elise. I’d end up thinking it was underpowered anyway. Thought I’d give an update on some of the other mods as well as some new radiator info: Besides the radiator work, I have a few other changes from last year I haven't really mentioned. Not the least of which was a new pressure plate and 6-puck clutch disc. Pedal effort is increased now, but it's very livable. The stock unit is so light; it actually feels good to have some force there now. Unlike the last go-around with the clutch (slippage due to the original Fidanza flywheel friction surface), this one is rock-solid. Skimming the Fidanza seems to have worked wonders. It's grabby, almost an on or off type feel to it, but you can still slip it a bit at stoplights to have an easy start. No chattering on engagement like the 4-puck I had before. It is a great combo that has seen 20 psi without any slips. It should be a non-issue from now on. The other mod was replacing the rubber shifter mounts with solid pieces to a get a more positive feel to the gear selector. This works nicely. A very basic change that isn't very apparent, but I like the nice “chunk” feel when going into gear. It does make the Auto Europe shifter mod seem like a long throw, however. I'd really be interested in a short-throw kit... Now the latest after another track day this Sat and Sun: The radiator seemed to be behaving a bit better. I think part of the issue is air in the system. After a run, I noticed the coolant tank was empty. I filled it ½ way, let the car run, and a few minutes after the thermostat had opened, a few bubbles burped up into the coolant tank. I did this twice, and added about ¼ gallon of water. For the first time I can see water/coolant in the tank. Before it was just the clear water I had added. There are no leaks and the car isn’t burning any coolant from what I or people following me can see. It seemed to run longer before heating up, but still got way too hot. So I’m getting there. Still need lots more air to the radiator I feel. FWIW, I spoke to the shop who built the rad, and more flow from the pump isn’t what they’d recommend. I haven’t yet heard back from Turbonetics on the intake air temps, but turning the boost down to 14 from 20 didn’t seem to have any effect. Despite the issues, I did get a number of laps in, including some in the wet. I’ve come to the conclusion that the car is getting close to where I always wanted it: docile and mostly comfortable on the street when you want it to be, and wicked quick on track. Once I’ve sorted the cooling issues (coolant and to some extent, brakes – though after a quick bleed they were awesome this weekend) you’ll never get the grin off my face! On Sat, despite not getting comfortable with good braking points and turn-in markers, I knocked 9 SECONDS off my previous best time at the same track 3 years ago. At that point my car had street tires, an MBC @ 14 psi, and full EBC brakes. Not bad improvement for a 2 mile course. And believe me, the driver is NOT 9 seconds better! The Quaife improvement became very apparent at the track, too. No push under heavy or even moderate acceleration in a corner. Just a feeling of “holy crap, it’s not losing traction but I’m afraid to go faster”. :-/ The handling limits of the car are seriously over my head, and that’s just fine for me. I’ll learn more later. I just know that by keeping steady with inputs, this car is incredibly well-balanced. For example, have too high an entry speed into a corner? A little four wheel slide scrubs speed and ease on the throttle to pull you straight. It’s so forgiving. I could go on and on, but if you’ve ever been on course, or driven twisties at a good clip, you know how good this car is. Total fun…now just to cool down my fun. I’ll be doing more work on the car soon. The MSD unit will hopefully start to go in two weeks from now. From there the engine will *finally* be properly tuned for fuel and timing. Until then I’m driving on the back roads with my boys, yahooing it all the way…

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 04:01
by Dave M
|Kuching|05/26/04 at 15:28:35|Kuching|
If I can add my two penn'th (5 cents) to the subject of cooling systems. An obvious and yet frequently overlooked principle of the function of a radiator is that it relies on a temperature difference between the surface of the fins and the air passing over them. Furthermore the greater the temperature difference, the more efficiently the radiator works. Therefore if the air is already heated before it hits the radiator core, by passing it through an intercooler for example, then the system must work less efficiently. The other perspective on this principle concerns water flow rate. Imagine one 'bit' of water passing through the radiator quite slowly. As it enters the core it is very hot and therefore loses heat quite rapidly but by the time it reaches the other side it has cooled to a temperature closer to the air and therefore the cooling rate diminishes. On the other hand if the 'bit' of water travels through the core rapidly it stays at a higher temperature as it passes through and therefore the temperature difference between the water and air remains higher and therefore the efficiency of the system as a whole improves. Counter-intuitive, but it does work! Another thing to keep in mind when partly covering a radiator face with an intercooler is that air flow is inherently lazy and will find the path of least resistance. If it can find a route through only one core instead of two then that is the path it will tend to take. This means that a large area of the radiator face is working on reduced air flow and therefore reduced efficiency. Ideally the air flow to the intercooler should be separated from the flow to the radiator and both surfaces should receive fresh, cool outside air. Not easy to do on a car as tightly packaged as the Elan may be worth the effort.


|Kuching|06/01/04 at 14:10:25|Kuching|
Gone quiet in here hasn't it.


|Dave M.||06/02/04 at 06:02:17|moshow[quote author=Kuching link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=45#58 date=06/01/04 at 14:10:25]Gone quiet in here hasn't it. [/quote]

Yes...can you tell work got busy again for me? ;) Haven't made much time to take apart the front end again. I've been having fun just driving the car the last week or so, but later this week am going to pull the front bumper and have another go at directing air in a better way. (This will also coincide with modifying the stock ignition system, so the car will be out of commission for a week or so anyway). My first thought is to look at the possibility of a thinner, but wider FMIC. Say, 4” T x 30” W. I would open the front bumper up a bit (going up), and have the FMIC mounted high. Below the FMIC would be a fresh air path for the radiator. This is the point that you were making, kuching. I need fresh air to BOTH. I would have a splitter in-between the two to help keep any air from stacking and really seal up the sides to keep any air that goes in that opening to go *through* everything. Not look for a “path of least resistance” out - another very good point you made. I'll mock up some cardboard ICs to see what will fit and go from there. What I really need is to talk to someone who deals in aerodynamics and have them look at some pics of our little Elan nose - that and find a body shop who can do a tasteful job in opening up the front to get some more air in... Regardless, the MSD DIS-2 will start to go in this weekend. *Finally* the car will be able to be tuned as far as a/f and timing, and not just run pig-rich at higher boost. Maybe by the end of the month I can get back to dyno the ol' girl again to see what leaning out the fuel does for power. Then maybe we can get figures for a new, monster chip The Master could burn for us. ::)


06/02/04 at 06:09:44|moshow
|Kuching|06/02/04 at 15:16:08|Kuching|[quote author=Dave M. link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=45#59 date=06/02/04 at 06:02:17] What I really need is to talk to someone who deals in aerodynamics and have them look at some pics of our little Elan nose - that and find a body shop who can do a tasteful job in opening up the front to get some more air in... [/quote]

Modesty prevents me from blowing my own trumpet but I do have a bit of previous in this field. I have recently been developing cooling systems for 300bhp turbo WRC cars which probably have similar requirements to your project. I am not entirely convinced that it is necessary to increase the size of the frontal opening unless the cooling problems are at low speed. At high speed it is probable that air spills over the inlet mouth even with the current size. A better solution may be to improve air flow by reducing the pressure behind the IC and radiator cores by ducting it to a low pressure area of the car. (oh no! I've started rambling again) Suffice to say that I would love to design an uprated cooling system but it may take me a while as I have a lot of calls on my spare time. Maybe we could have a technology transfer as I wouldn't know where to start with improving engine output.


|Dave M.||06/03/04 at 11:04:58|moshow[quote author=Kuching link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=60#60 date=06/02/04 at 15:16:08]Modesty prevents me from blowing my own trumpet but I do have a bit of previous in this field. I have recently been developing cooling systems for 300bhp turbo WRC cars which probably have similar requirements to your project.[/quote]

Hmmm...WRC designer or tax CPA...who should be looking at this project? You have a PM, good sir.

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 04:02
by Dave M
|Candles|06/04/04 at 10:24:07|Candles|
AC has got to go! Presumably the condenser for the AC is causing a restriction in the air flow. Also, the extra load of the compressor, even not working can't help power. Less power needed=less boost required=less heat. And another thing: There would be some more space in the engine bay for other cool stuff. Isn't AC to a convertible car as a patio heater is to a British winter evening?


|Dave M.||06/04/04 at 11:55:31|moshow[quote author=Candles link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=60#62 date=06/04/04 at 10:24:07] [smiley=1poke.gif] AC has got to go![/quote]

I know...I know. It's one thing I'm having a tough time deciding on. I've only used it a few times, but it has been a great thing to have (i.e.-once driving home after a car event in the hot sun with my young son in the car). My fear is yanking everything then having to reinstall if I ever sold the car (not likely anytime soon). Guess I could just pull the easy stuff. But you aren't kidding - how it would clean up the engine bay! And save weight. grrrrr...


|Mark||06/04/04 at 19:10:39|mark
I took the plunge and pulled it all out recently. there is alot of stuff in there adding weight and hogging space. the left side of the engine bay looks positively bare after all the pressure hoses, freon condensor, and other gear are removed. If you're driving fast enough, you don't notice the heat.


|Dave M.||06/07/04 at 06:11:33|moshow[quote author=Mark link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=60#64 date=06/04/04 at 19:10:39]If you're driving fast enough, you don't notice the heat.[/quote]

That's awesome. It'd make a great bumper sticker! OK, I might start pulling some things this week...we'll see if the “to be updated” cooling setup can incorporate the condenser. May be a non-issue as I'll *have* to pull it. Was it easy to size a new belt after removing the compressor?


|Mark||06/08/04 at 04:28:41|mark
without the a/c compressor, the crank/PS pump belt measures 36” if I recall correctly. no problem fitting a new one - any decent auto supply store can look up the belts by length.

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 04:03
by Dave M
|ElanScanMan|06/08/04 at 04:35:39|ElanScanMan|
I'd work with Kuching - he's obviously the man who understands the issue and can sort this out. Removing the air con. will help but its treating the symptoms not the disease.


|Dave M.||06/21/04 at 12:06:10|moshow
It's been an enjoyable few weeks just driving the car and not worrying about cooling issues on track (although I did have a highway blast up to about 135 that heated things up a bit - man, this car is fast!). However one of the front GAZ struts is a officially goner and the car is nasty to drive, so time to take Simon's advice to heart and look at the cooling setup. I'll be pulling the bumper this week and having a look with fresh eyes. As for the front struts, on the recommendation from Steve at SJS, I ordered a pair of the ProTech dampers he now carries. Basically the same as the GAZ with a few less clicks to the adjustment knob (13), silver instead of gold and just a few $ more. I hope to have a replacement for the GAZ under warranty, so I may have a front pair if anyone is interested. More to come when the bumper's off!


|Peter W|06/21/04 at 17:54:28|Peter_W|
Dave, FWIW - This article looks like it could have pertinent info. on underhood pressure and how to reduce it via undertrays, spoilers, and hood vents. http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2162/article.html


|Dave M.||06/22/04 at 05:15:25|moshow[quote author=Peter W link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=60#69 date=06/21/04 at 17:54:28]Dave, FWIW - This article looks like it could have pertinent info. on underhood pressure and how to reduce it via undertrays, spoilers, and hood vents. http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2162/article.html[/quote]

[smiley=bowdown.gif] You the man, Peter. Thanks! Anyone have a subscription to AutoSpeed so I can get all the articles? Otherwise I'll spring for the issues... A PS to my above message, the other item that has sidelined the Elan for a few is cracked brake rotors. Unlike the 60-70,000 miles on my Subaru cross-drilleds, the AP rotors have cracked after 10,000 or so. Granted they are used much more seriously and have thinned considerably for rotors (thanks to the Hawk Blue pads), but it's the first I've seen rotors crack. The below pic is just OK, but you get the idea: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... m=dec5.jpg

06/22/04 at 05:16:11|moshow|Peter W|06/22/04 at 10:14:59|Peter_W|
Dave, I'll plan on subscribing to the archived articles later today - I'll IM you when done. Peter

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 04:05
by Dave M
Dave M.||06/23/04 at 05:28:39|moshow
Well, that was quick - the struts are in! Amazing once you've been through a job how much quicker it goes the next time. The driver's side GAZ was toast. A piece of the outer body of the strut was missing at the top exposing one of the seals. I'm sure all the oil leaked out here. I'll post a pic soon. The ProTechs are in and set for a trial. I've raised the setting 3/4-1” from where the GAZ were as the nose was too low what with all the new stuff jammed in there (rad, FMIC, etc). One item that saved my back and knees during the process was borrowing one of my kids' folding chairs while working. Not exactly the picture of manliness, but comfy! http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... m=6d14.jpg


|Dave M.||06/24/04 at 21:32:05|moshow|
Here's the pics of the bad GAZ strut (you can see the chunk missing) and the new ProTechs installed. Just got the glove box modified to hold the MSD control unit tonight and will pull the center console to run wires to the battery tomorrow... http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... m=724e.jpg
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themey ... m=ddff.jpg


|Mike|06/28/04 at 18:29:02|Mike|
Dave-if I start upgrading, is there a stopping point? Track day on Saturday with 5 sessions, total 100 miles + flat out, hitting rev limiter, etc. Car ran like a champ, other than boiling power steering fluid which resulted in a racket from the steering pump. Tires gave out (Kumho Ecsta's), to the point every turn was a four wheel drift adventure. Dampers/springs need serious attention as the transitions were close to out of control. Brakes with EBC rotors and green pads front and back are ok. What's your suggestion short of turning it into a serious track car like yours?


|AV8NDOC||06/28/04 at 22:18:05|AV8NDOC|
Dave, just thought of an idea. Remember the front underbody CF tray offered by ?someone? for the Elan last year? With that in place it may give the frontal flow air less chance of getting the easy way out of the car and help with cooling. Worth getting the pretty piece just to find out? :-/


|ElanScanMan|06/28/04 at 23:23:47|ElanScanMan|
I think its Alan Betts who offers it.

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 04:06
by Dave M
|Sy|06/28/04 at 23:27:12|Simon_V|
It was Alan, Alan. But having spoken to him at Donington (Sunday am) he's stopped doing them because he couldn't get the bonding right. Sy


|Dave M.||07/02/04 at 09:12:30|moshow[quote author=Mike link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=60#74 date=06/28/04 at 18:29:02]Dave-if I start upgrading, is there a stopping point? Track day on Saturday with 5 sessions, total 100 miles + flat out, hitting rev limiter, etc. Car ran like a champ, other than boiling power steering fluid which resulted in a racket from the steering pump. Tires gave out (Kumho Ecsta's), to the point every turn was a four wheel drift adventure. Dampers/springs need serious attention as the transitions were close to out of control. Brakes with EBC rotors and green pads front and back are ok. What's your suggestion short of turning it into a serious track car like yours? [/quote]

A stopping point for upgrades? (key spooky laughing voice here ;D ) The amount of upgrades all depends on your goals. From the sounds of it, you're happy with HP and brakes right now. Looks like struts and tires are in need of help, though. I'd look into the GAZ or ProTech dampers through SJS for replacements. Very flexible as far as height &amp; damping so you can tailor them to what stage the rest of the car is in. As for the tires, I had the Kumho 712s also and didn't like them at all on the track. I think the Elan is too light as they work a treat on my Subaru. If you go too aggressive (Kumho 700s or a similar “autocross” style compound), then you'll have much more grip, but your tires will be more capable than your brakes. That introduces “project creep”! Maybe a high-performance street compound like the Falken Azenis or the like. See the thread in the tire section as to other options. Many people have great opinions/write-ups there. Keeping upgrades to the suspension/tire area will be much cheaper than going into the power area. Not only do you have turbo, fueling, and electronics considerations, but drivetrain mods and even tires can be issues then. It's a slippery slope, though! Just enjoy the MBC-level of power a you'll be fine... ;) Glad to hear you had fun on track. It's wonderful getting the car out to stretch its legs. What a feeling of freedom!
|Mark||07/02/04 at 19:14:42|mark|xx|0|24.6.66.76|I run the Falkan Azenis on the track and do some street driving on them also, although usually drive on Dunlop SP9000s on the street. I think the Azenis are terrific. They are very grippy, firm and predictable. On the road, they are harder ride than the Dunlops, but I think that is because they are smaller and less sidewall to absorb the bumps. They are also pretty reasonably priced, compared to Bridgestone, etc track tires. I will definitely buy them again when these wear out.


|davidjt|09/02/04 at 15:12:38|davidjt|
Dave One of the 'project creep' issues that emerged from my first trackday was acute understeer; at times the queue behind me at the hairpin was embarrassing! Did you address this with stiffer anti-roll bars front, rear or both? David


|Brian_MDB|09/02/04 at 23:07:56|Brian_MDB|[quote author=davidjt link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=75#80 date=09/02/04 at 15:12:38]Dave One of the 'project creep' issues that emerged from my first trackday was acute understeer; at times the queue behind me at the hairpin was embarrassing! Did you address this with stiffer anti-roll bars front, rear or both? David[/quote]

I was thinking about this the other day, Dave did you manage to get some stiffer bars made? If not then it may be worth trying http://www.addco.net/ in North Carolina who appear to be able to make something for you?


|Dave M.||09/13/04 at 13:28:27|moshow
David and Brian - sorry for the delay in getting back. I haven't done anything at this point with new anti-roll bars. The 2 shops I've talked to previously said the hangers our bars use would be tricky to weld on as it would change the property of the bar itself. We tossed around the idea of some soft of clamping-type piece, but never really followed it through. I'll check with Addco and see what they have to say. An adjustable set of bars *would* be nice. As for my car. I have somewhat adjusted the understeer out of my car through the adjustable dampers that SJS sells. I have set the rears stiffer than stock to get the back end to rotate more. I have also added a rear strut tower bar. I really like the new feel and can drift the rear when I need it. I had a couple runs during the recent LOG autocross where I got the rear out into a big-time hairpin slide (mind you, I'm not an autocrosser ::) ). Loads of fun. Mike was aboard for one of them.

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 04:08
by Dave M
|davidjt|09/18/04 at 13:24:14|davidjt|
Dave Thanks for the information - I like the sound of simple, easily restoreable options - was always slightly dubious about stiff anti-roll bars in the wet, on the road. If playing with dampers and tyre pressures plus a strut brace will do the trick, I just need a track with plenty of room to experiment. And lots of practice. David l


|Dave M.||10/26/04 at 05:11:33|moshow
Once again it’s been quite a while since I’ve checked in with my project. This summer/fall has been very busy on a number of fronts which have all taken more time away from the Elan than I thought they would. Some were unexpected and required shifting priorities, some (like work) ate up what was normally free time, and some (like travel) were a blast, but didn’t leave much time or money for tweaks. It has been a great year, though. Despite not having seriously worked at the cooling problem, I’ve had a blast with the car and have attended a number of track days. The Elan did see limited track use (and performed quite well in the cool weather), but I had almost as much fun instructing for people and otherwise bumming rides whenever I could. As for the ongoing projects, here’s the latest: Cooling system – I now know there are a combination of issues here. Getting out for some track days sure helped shed more light on the issue. At the last event, I spent time staying out of the serious boost, but still found the temp rising (in some cases under heavy right hand corners [smiley=headscratch.gif] ). So boost isn’t the only problem. Could be water pump, could be thermostat, could be head gasket (I’ve been losing a little coolant somewhere), could be the fact that the new radiator is part brass/copper, etc. I still have to separate airflow to/from the IC and radiator as much as possible, but I will also look at a number of other bits over the winter. Timing computer – The MSD DIS-2 went in just before LOG. The car started and ran on the first try, but then after everything was mounted and totally wired the car would not start. This was right after a dead battery problem and the battery may have caused issues with the computer. This was also 2 days before LOG and I was in no mood to be stranded somewhere along the 800 mile trip. So I yanked the MSD, put the stock ignition back in, and the car has run fine since. This past weekend I reinstalled the DIS-2 and she started again on the first try, so I’ll see how things go this week. Actually I’m somewhat glad I haven’t spent too much time on tuning this summer as I had a meeting yesterday that may shift a number of future plans for the car. Out of nowhere, a tuning shop with, among other things an AWD dyno, lands about 3 miles from my office. http://www.ayaracing.com/ The owner’s name is Kaz Aya (anyone know the name?), and apparently he has a good deal of experience with turbo engines (as well as suspension, drivetrain, etc.) from years of rally and road racing. One interesting bit is he is a Unichip dealer/installer (hello, Philbo?!). We had a long discussion today about the entire car ranging from suspension, to brakes, to turbo, and more. To make a long story short, we are going to do a little testing to see if my head gasket is an issue and what condition the internals are in. If the gasket is shot or if there are any issues with the cylinders or pistons, the entire engine may come out this winter for a rebuild. If so, that’s fine. I’ve wanted to port-match the intake, clean up the valve seats (3 or 5-angle valve job), add a Teflon spacer between the head and the plenum (for keeping heat out of the intake charge), and about 5-6 other things that would be much easier or require the engine to be out. Not the least of which is to replace the $#%^ oil pressure transducer! If things are OK with the gasket, or after the above gets completed, we are taking a fresh look at where I am going with my tuning. Like Philbo, we may try the Unichip route, or I may find the Apex’i and MSD pieces are adequate and stick with them. The owner pointed out that the Apex’i is not ideal for what I’m trying to accomplish, but budget may require it be good enough for now. Especially if I’m rebuilding an engine… Regardless, the shop is *exactly* what I’ve needed to really set the car up well. Besides the engine tuning, he also can assist with suspension tweaks, brake biasing, manifold and O2 housing replacement construction, and about anything else I’d need – of course, requiring a second mortgage! The point is this could be a very good resource for custom parts and loads of other ideas for everyone. He even talked of fabricating some sort of external wastegate to help with boost creep. Good stuff. The car goes in next week for what will likely be the beginning of an interesting “off-season”. I’ll be in touch with the results.


10/26/04 at 05:37:11|moshow|Dave M.||10/27/04 at18:17:44|moshow|
All is well with the timing computer so far. The car has started no problem the last three tries. I don't have the coils mounted yet, but will be driving in a day or so. I had to laugh at what car tuning is coming to: Last night I'm sitting in my car in the quiet garage. Laptop in my lap to first do a PROM dump for ESM, then swap cables and start programming the MSD DIS-2. I have a basic timing curve set based on boost, and just need to get on the road to try it out. Lots of neat tweaks to this unit, but besides the obvious timing adjustment based on rpm and/or boost, it has a “burnout” rev limiter for drag racers. Give 12V to a lead into the unit and you can program the rpm limit. I decided it could be fun to use as a very basic traction control for 1st gear, or even a cruise control (i.e.-set for 3500 rpm ~75 mph). Just mash your foot and stretch and you wouldn't go any faster. It was weird flooring the car last night and having things set at 2000 rpm. It just stayed right there. Guess it doesn't take much to amuse us accounting types... ::)


|Dave M.||11/11/04 at 18:33:56|moshow|
Well, my project is officially sidelined until spring. After getting the timing computer in and starting to tune a little bit, I was hoping to get a dyno run in before the snow flew to see what finally leaning things out would do. Despite being able to pull timing back and successfully getting rid of any knock under heavy boost (up to 22 psi), my head gasket had other ideas. I took the car over to my new local shop after I started losing a little coolant and had some tests run. The leakdown test proved what I feared: a leak between cylinders 1-2 and 3-4. Crap. We also looked into the cylinders with a scope and found the #3 piston to be slightly burnt around the edge. It appears at some point there was detonation which may have caused some damage. This could have been from a year back when I tried leaning the car out before having the timing computer in. Not the best news, but as the owner of the shop said: “now you’ve got a winter project!” It looks as if I’ll pull the engine and have it taken apart and inspected. For starters, I will have the head gasket replaced, the block checked for straightness, and the head flow matched. While things are apart, I also plan on installing stronger pistons (as it appears one may be shot anyway), having the crank inspected, polished, and balanced, the connecting rods checked and upgraded if we feel necessary, and having the head gone through. All in all, the engine will be rebuilt to some extent with stronger components and everything gone through to make sure it’s fresh. After the mechanical side is done (probably spring), I will be looking at going the route of Philbo and having the Unichip installed. I didn’t go the Unichip or Haltech route originally because 1) I didn’t have a shop nearby that could do the tuning of either computer, 2) I wanted to stage my upgrades, and 3) I wanted to do some of the tuning myself and learn as I went. Now that the engine is going to be cracked and improved, I’ll save the serious tuning for the shop. While I still feel the pieces I had in place could have done an adequate job, as Philbo has explained, the Unichip allows for optimization of fuel/timing/etc under all conditions and loads. This tuning also isn’t possible without the correct dyno. The shop has a Mustang Dyno, which apparently can hold at various loads and speeds specifically for tuning purposes. I could have never done this tuning before with the Dynojet I’ve previously been on. The owner feels the car could be built to run at 1.5-1.6 bar all day long without issue, so that’s the goal. Part of me is bummed to have the car up a little early this year (though it is supposed to snow a touch tonight…urgh), but the other part of me is very excited to get the engine out and do all the misc things I’ve needed/wanted to do like replace the oil pressure transducer, install a remote oil filter kit, maybe gasket-match the intake, install a special gasket to insulate the intake from the head to keep things cool, install an oil temp gauge, and clean… Lots to do, but I now have the time I guess! The key is getting the engine out ASAP and to the shop as I have a feeling getting parts will be a long process. That will start this weekend. I will also start another thread here in “Projects” that focuses on the whole engine removal/rebuild project. It might help for future reference. Much more to come!


|Ashaman||11/11/04 at 21:02:43|Ashaman|
So tell me, Dave...were you the one who originally coined the phrase “Project Creep?” ;D Sorry to hear about the engine damage, what a bummer! Of course it will be a great chance for repairing via upgrade, and it should be really interesting when you are through! Why aren't you going with the new Haltech computer? It is so easy to install and work with (provided you know what you are doing, unfortunately I have since learned that I do not, LOL), but I am sure your guy could set it up in no time. Anyway, I just like it since it is a plug in deal basically so you don't have to cut/splice into your wiring harness. I plugged mine in, plugged in the MAP, locked the timing and started it up! Piece of cake....if only tuning were so simple :-/

PostPosted: Tue 26.07.2005, 04:09
by Dave M
|Dave M.||11/14/04 at 19:59:46|moshow|
Ah, yes...project creep at its finest. I don't know if I first brought the term to the board, but I'm sure providing examples time and time again! :-/ I will bring up the Haltech with Kaz (the owner of the shop). Frankly, I've thought of using the Unichip because this guy can tune it. If he is familiar with the Haltech, I'll see his opinion between the two. Glad to hear yours is in and operational. Maybe I can borrow your notes if I go that route!


|Dave M.||11/18/04 at 09:46:42|moshow
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly the car comes apart now...brakes, hood, intake, turbo, ignition, and some exhuast bits are all out so far. :-/ Shouldn't be long to get the engine out now. So I start pulling the radiator hoses off last night to drain things (I have an aftermarket radiator without a drain plug - yea, it stinks). I get the lower hose loose and start draining slowly to not soak myself - when exactly that happens! All of the sudden my left side/back is wet. I look over and the top left rear of the radiator is draining quickly onto me. Nice. Must have created a vacuum of sorts by draining the fluid which popped open a nice leak. Obviously the leak was there before this (getting under the car that close I can see coolant residue) which makes me wonder about my cooling issue. The radiator is apparently faulty, but how long it's been this way, I'm not sure. Maybe the cooling issue will be easier to diagnose/fix than I thought? Nah...


|Dave M.||12/13/04 at 04:33:30|moshow
After splitting my free time between strut bars and engine removal. I haven't gotten either done as quickly as I'd have liked, but progress is being made. The engine came out last night after a quick trip to Sears for a 22mm wrench to remove the oil cooler hoses (FYI if any of you are wondering... ::) ). See the carnage at:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themeyers ... mp;.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themeyers ... mp;.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/themeyers ... mp;.src=ph
Time to remove the intake and all the misc bits (alternator, oil leads, the @#$% oil presure transducer, etc.). The remaining head/block will go to the shop this week.


|AV8NDOC||12/13/04 at 11:28:33|AV8NDOC|
Surprised how clean your engine looks, Dave! Then remembered all the side projects you have done and figured you have been keeping bits of it clean thru those adventures . . .


|Dave M.||12/14/04 at 04:28:47|moshow[quote author=AV8NDOC link=board=project;num=1052318814;start=90#91 date=12/13/04 at 11:28:33]Surprised how clean your engine looks, Dave! Then remembered all the side projects you have done and figured you have been keeping bits of it clean thru those adventures . . . [/quote]

Amazing what a picture will do! The block probably isn't normally that shade of grey. That's only the finest patina of oil/coolant/dirt/general spoo that 13 years and a leaky head gasket can produce. ;) The intake is nice and shiny, though! And yes, the trans has been cleaned...3 TIMES! :-/