Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judge!

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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Saltire » Sat 17.04.2021, 07:20

Owen L wrote:17/04/21

Much reading about Coolex radiator dramas in USA last night. Equally it seems the Coolex one does fit, so I'm leaning to that as a solution over getting this one repaired. Samco pipes take six weeks to be manufactured, so that's a bit disheartening. Will see if anyone has a set they haven't fitted sitting around I can purchase for the current cost and they could then re-order? Its a thought.

Hi Owen

As far as I know, the “radiator dramas” were exclusively in the US. The Federal car has a different front end (more crash structure) and the original Coolex rad wouldn’t fit the Fed radiator bracket. After consultation with a member(s) on here, they produced a modified Federal rad which solved the problem. Rest of the world cars weren’t affected, and there are several members on here (including me) who’ve fitted Coolex radiators and are very happy with them. I also have a Coolex oil cooler after an unfortunate leak . . . but you have all those exciting opportunities to look forward to :D :D :banghead: :banghead:

You could always call Coolex; they’re very friendly and I’m sure will answer any questions you have.
Jonathan

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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Rambo » Sat 17.04.2021, 07:29

I think I'd have told him to shove his Lexus where the sun doesn't shine :?

Still, its a learning curve, and it sounds like you have a lot of mechanical skills and thought processes to get there on the end. And then you will know why we rave about this fantastic little sports car :burnout:
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby 378S2 » Sat 17.04.2021, 07:31

My rad came from SJ but I think it’s just Coolex retailed. Went in no problem, although it’s a faff with the AC condenser in the way. Remove the Y-Piece covering the top hose, you can swing it out the way on a non-AC car so the step is missing from the instructions.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Simon_P » Sat 17.04.2021, 09:55

The 2 screws holding the top of the tow bracket are on the inside. You can get to them easily with the radiator removed.

See wiki for jacking points.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby dapinky » Sat 17.04.2021, 10:57

Simon_P wrote:The 2 screws holding the top of the tow bracket are on the inside. You can get to them easily with the radiator removed.

See wiki for jacking points.



Page 10.31A in the parts manual shows how the tow hook is fitted, and as Simon says, with the radiator (and front bumper) out of the way, it is an easy bit to get at.

tow hook.png
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby RonR » Sat 17.04.2021, 11:47

Rambo wrote:I have heard that an ice hockey puck with a suitable indentation is a better idea as it spreads the load between the trolley jack and the jacking point/pin.


I use a "Junior" size Ice Hockey puck with a hole drilled to clear the jacking point allen bolts. It's just the right size to bear on the steel washer and miss the surrounding fibreglass.
Size is 60mm x 20mm.

Edit: DON'T DO THIS - you could damage your car! - see posts below
Last edited by RonR on Sat 17.04.2021, 16:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby dapinky » Sat 17.04.2021, 14:02

RonR wrote:
Rambo wrote:I have heard that an ice hockey puck with a suitable indentation is a better idea as it spreads the load between the trolley jack and the jacking point/pin.


I use a "Junior" size Ice Hockey puck with a hole drilled to clear the jacking point allen bolts. It's just the right size to bear on the steel washer and miss the surrounding fibreglass.
Size is 60mm x 20mm.


Ron,

I hope that your jacking points have been checked/repaired.... when they rust, the first thing to go is usually the big steel washer, where it takes the weight.

The jacking point is designed to take the weight on the bolt, not on the metal plate...... most of the plate is in contact with the fibreglass, and I have seen cars where using that as a weight-bearing surface has caused disaster.

A cross-sectional view will show you that the bolt screws into a thick (load bearing) plate at the base of the jacking point.... but the washer doesn't do much at all (weight bearing wise!)... thus the load is distributed through the entire steel bonded outrigger parts.

Ideally, I'd recommend a rubber puck with a small 'dent' in the top, so it locates over the bolt to avoid slipping, but still uses the actual bolt to hold the weight.

(of course, if the whole metal bit is rusted away, it doesn't matter where the jack goes, it'll collapse anyway :lol: )

For a nice look at the structure, and to explain how the weight is spread around, have a look at Joao (Tuga 2112) video on his repair - it shows all the inside bits I mean.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby RonR » Sat 17.04.2021, 15:58

Gulp!
Thanks for the heads-up Dave.

My steel washers are in good condition but I count myself lucky that nothing untoward has happened whilst jacking up previously. It looks like my outriggers and jacking points must be OK.
The puck will go in the bin and I'll make up a Mark II version that supports under the bolt as you suggest.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby dapinky » Sat 17.04.2021, 16:22

Ron,

Initially, I did as you do (did?) and drilled a 20mm hole through a puck and thought it would be the best way of doing it (it 'looks' like a great idea).......

... and then someone told me the error involved, and I looked into it and realised I had been wrong (I hate to admit it, but even I can be wrong sometimes - please don't tell my wife!).

Fortunately, I had purchased a pack of 5 rubber pucks, so modified a new one which now lives in the boot of the car. The OE scissor jack is built in such a way that it bears on the shaped bolt head, and when i rebuilt my jacking points I ground down a stainless steel bolt to replace the originals, and still work with the OE jack.
Dave

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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Rambo » Sat 17.04.2021, 22:36

"I hate to admit it, but even I can be wrong sometimes"

Bloody hell, you been on the cider tonight Dave :wink:
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Simon_P » Sat 17.04.2021, 23:23

dapinky wrote:please don't tell my wife!
She probably already knows :lol:
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Owen L » Sun 18.04.2021, 00:07

Simon_P wrote:The 2 screws holding the top of the tow bracket are on the inside. You can get to them easily with the radiator removed.

See wiki for jacking points.


18/04/21

You cant get to any bolts on this car easily would be my response so far.!

Seriously, one of these i can just about see how to get a spanner on and make tiny movements to get it off. The other one there is simply no access to this bolt. There is a large black moulding that is completely preventing access. If that came off, maybe. More starring needed. I'll see if anyone has some photos of a spanner on this bolt.

Ordered the Coolex Radiator in Black - $340 AUD delivered (50 quid delivery!) Samco pipes, I will need to order from Amber/Merlin. might be tonight's job

Wiki for jacking points just doesn't provide a clear photo of where the axle stand needs to go. I'm now hearing that I can jack the car at the rear on the inner jacking points. This seems to contradict the wiki, so still puzzled but will get there. won't be doing any jacking at rear until i have certainty around this.

Will try to find more of my tools that have been put away since we moved here. Might even then be able to move the bike restoration forward as well!

Is there an easy way to upload photos into these entries - it keeps rejecting my images as too big. My PC lacks the software to convert them into smaller files without a long phaff.

you can see why social media is so popular - point, click, hit upload and done!

Thanks for reading if you did and a big thank you to those folk who are supporting me with their feedback and wisdom.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Simon_P » Sun 18.04.2021, 00:42

Owen L wrote:You cant get to any bolts on this car easily would be my response so far.!
You ain't seen nothing yet! Cam belt change anyone? Think how lucky you are not having A/C.
If you drop the radiator out the bolts are easy to get to.

At the back end of the underframe there are 2 bolt heads either side which attach it to the chassis. With a low trolley jack come in from behind the front wheel leaving enough room to put an axle stand under the jacking point - or the other way round depending on what you are taking off.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Owen L » Sun 18.04.2021, 03:53

Simon_P wrote:
Owen L wrote:You cant get to any bolts on this car easily would be my response so far.!
You ain't seen nothing yet! Cam belt change anyone? Think how lucky you are not having A/C.
If you drop the radiator out the bolts are easy to get to.

At the back end of the underframe there are 2 bolt heads either side which attach it to the chassis. With a low trolley jack come in from behind the front wheel leaving enough room to put an axle stand under the jacking point - or the other way round depending on what you are taking off.



I do have A/C

The height of the car is not the issue. That black plastic box prevents any access. i will take a picture and post it. im missing something here i sense.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Saltire » Sun 18.04.2021, 07:22

Owen L wrote:
Simon_P wrote:
Owen L wrote:You cant get to any bolts on this car easily would be my response so far.!
You ain't seen nothing yet! Cam belt change anyone? Think how lucky you are not having A/C.
If you drop the radiator out the bolts are easy to get to.

At the back end of the underframe there are 2 bolt heads either side which attach it to the chassis. With a low trolley jack come in from behind the front wheel leaving enough room to put an axle stand under the jacking point - or the other way round depending on what you are taking off.



I do have A/C

The height of the car is not the issue. That black plastic box prevents any access. i will take a picture and post it. im missing something here i sense.

Hi Owen

The “black plastic box” is the front crash structure, but I don’t recall tha it was in my way when I took out the radiator and tow hook. Others will no doubt be along to correct me and point you in the right direction :D

Re photos: agreed, it’s a pest. They need to be a maximum of 1024 x 768 pixels because of the limitations of the forum software. If I’m posting from the iPad, I use an app called, inventively, “Image Resizer” to set the right size before posting. If I’m on the PC, I use the Windows 10 facility where you can right click on the relevant photo and choose “Resize photos”.

Once you have the photo the right size, look for the “Upload attachment” tab towards the bottom of the message posting page (next to Options). Choose your correctly sized file name, and you can also enter a caption which will appear under the photo on the page. That will give you an image inline with your text.

You can also use the “IMG” button to link to an external hosting site. I tend not to do that, because there were problems a while ago when Photobucket moved to a paid service and a lot of the useful photos in previous threads disappeared.

Keep the reports coming!
Jonathan

1995 Elan S2 no 512, BRG/magnolia, last of 4 UK S2 to this spec
2019 VW Golf R - “The Flying Tomato”
2020 Volvo XC40 T4 AWD
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Simon_P » Sun 18.04.2021, 08:43

The piece that you want to remove has a square nut welded to it - It is the nut that you are looking the screw comes through from the other side between the A/C condenser and the frame.

Owen L wrote:I do have A/C
Well at least removing the bumper made getting at those two screws a bit easier. But you can't even see the rad and it is a little trickier to get out - as 276S2 says, you need to remove the Y piece for it to drop down.

With A/C adjusting the PAS belt becomes harder as you can't easily get to the adjustment bolt with a normal 12mm spanner - It is much easier with a long straight 12mm spanner or better still a straightened one cut in half with a 1ft piece of flattened tube welded in the middle. This also helps with the alternator adjuster bolt. Take a moment to get a spanner on them and you'll see what I mean.
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Owen L » Mon 19.04.2021, 09:06

19/04/21

Practising uploads of photos
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Elan Rear.jpg
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Owen L » Mon 19.04.2021, 09:31

19/04/21

Progress of sorts.

So today was back to reality. I did have a half day though, so was able to spend some time organising parts!

Oooooo. An email from SJ just dropped - back in a mo. He must start early, its barely 8am in uk i think.

Ok, I've paid that bill. Basically i ordered the timing belt, the other belts and a few bolts. Oh and a water pump. They removed one item from my list but didn't tell me what it was? odd. I've sent an email asking. also its 3 weeks to post them, even though they are in stock. Confused. Maybe he means he can get them in. no desperate urgency but good to know its not a fast process ordering from there.

I will admit to spending a long time scrolling through what is available from SJ. Reminds me of Partzilla where i can spend hours ordering bolts for the bikes.

I was contacted by a very nice person from this forum advising me to use Amber for the coolant pipes. So I've emailed them and will wait to get a reply. I know they will be 6-8 weeks to get parts.

Its quickly becoming obvious, there's going to be a wait each time that is beyond the usual tyranny of distance. I'm too used to DHL i think.

I found a thread that mentioned Kingsbourne leads, so i tried to buy a set but they didn't like my address. Another email i will await a reply to. Probably tomorrow as I'm not sure its even Monday in USA until tomorrow - if that makes any sense. lol.

Radiator was tested today and found to be useless. so I'm pleased i have ordered from Coolex. i will follow up with them as i paid by Paypal but didn't get a email receipt.

So some parts are on their way. In the meantime i can relax and focus on cleaning everything i took off and sending out some stuff to get Powdercoated. Want to get the bonnet hinges plated but unsure if the pin in there would take kindly to it. Will chat to Ben to get his thoughts as he has done a lot of his own plating.

Will try to get down to the garage to at least clean one thing tonight.

Thank you for reading this far if you did. I am reading all the comments and trying to absorb them to the best of my ability. I really appreciate folk taking the time to help me understand this car.
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First of many no doubt. I wonder what he deleted?
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby Owen L » Mon 19.04.2021, 12:10

19/04/21

Pays to check the junk email. Just got this from a local prestige specialist i was told is good at working on the Lotus

We generally allow about 8-10 hours to do the work you list as its pretty fiddly. Our labour rate is $145.00/hour (incl GST).

$1200 to change the timing belt and 8 hours? this is me supplying the parts

Hmmmm
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Re: Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judg

Postby dapinky » Mon 19.04.2021, 12:25

Doing the job is within the reach of anyone with the time and patience (and with a few tools) - you just need to decide if the cost is worth the time to you.

Having done it a fair few times, I can do it easily in less time than they say, and you are likely to find a few other 'little cleaning jobs' as you go, which they wouldn't bother with. So, if you can earn $145/hour doing your own work, it is cost effective to pay someone.... but if you can only earn $30/hour, it is worthwhile doing it yourself!
Dave

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