Step by Silky Step

[RonR]

One step forwards, two steps back:

Discovered 2 cracks in the exhaust manifold when cleaning it up:

Has anyone had a manifold repaired successfully or should I look for a second-hand one?

Noticed a ferrule loose on one of the oil cooler hoses - just a slight twist and it was off!

I'm beginning to think I might not get it finished in time for Castle Combe....

[dapinky]

As far as the oil lines go - they are easily repaired using any hydraulic hose place....

..... as for the manifold, there are many schools of thought ranging from "replace with a new one" through various repairs, to "leave it alone" - all methods have their advantages and disadvantages.

In an ideal world, a new item will be available from a local supplier, for £10, and can be fitted easily - unfortunately not the case - it is quite likely that any used item will be in a similar state, or even worse (the rear face of the collection pipe portion always seems to get the worst wear, and can't be seen when it is fitted).

On my first Elan I simply cleaned it up as best I could, then smeared some chemical metal over the area, getting into the cracks as much as possible - it never leaked (to the best of my knowledge) and the colour meant it wasn't visible (even without the heat shields).

Then I had the manifold from my spare engine welded - now, cast iron isn't easy to weld at home as it requires the work piece to be heated up uniformly, then welded, then cooled slowly - so needing an oven which goes hotter than the one in my kitchen, and cools down over a long period.

I'm unsure how easy it is to find somewhere that can do it properly, but I'm sure that many places will offer to MIG weld the crack, but offer no guarantee on it. I was fortunate in that a father of a friend was an instructor in the apprentice school at Jaguar, and they had the facilities to do the work for me.

To be honest, it doesn't look as neat as the chemical metal repair, but it is still going strong 15 years later.

I would suspect that a high percentage of the cars on the road have these cracks, but most people are unaware of it because they can't be seen easily - so, leaving it alone won't make much difference!

If it were me, I'd clean and fill it, but not worry too much - I've never known one to actually break and/or leak fumes in a meaningful way.

[RonR]

Thanks for the info Dave, a local engineering shop are going to have a go at TIG welding the manifold with Nickel or Stainless steel filler, fingers crossed....
and I'll take a trip to my local Pirtek to see if they can do the repair to the oil hose.

[Tuga2112]

when i saw the pictures i instantly thought a bead of mig weld would be enough.

why is such solution is not a viable option ?

[dapinky]

when i saw the pictures i instantly thought a bead of mig weld would be enough.

why is such solution is not a viable option ?

Well, it sort-of is the way to do it..... the problem is that you are welding cast iron, and for any weld to work well you need to 'melt' the filler material into the host metal.

The problem being that cast iron and mild steel expand at vastly different rates, and thus shrink at vastly different rates after you run the weld. To successfully weld a thick lump of cast iron you need to bake it to get it hot - and more importantly, keep it's heat even (otherwise some bits will expand/shrink differently than others). Having got it hot enough (hotter than your oven at home can go!) it can then be MIG welded..... with a hot gas flame running on the work at the same time.... then the whole lot stays in the oven and the temperature is slowly brought back down to ambient.

This is why it isn't easy to do at home - and the 'best' form of welding is probably oxy-acetylene with a suitable filler rod.

Simply running a bead of MIG along a crack in cast iron can cause the crack to grow very quickly if the temperatures aren't close...... but it CAN work with skill/luck - wouldn't like to say how long it will last though.

[Tuga2112]

what if its welded in small increments letting the metal cooldown between parts ?
i mean. put mig steel on both sides first, and then fill the middle. ?

[dapinky]

As stated, the metal needs to melt to fuse into a solid weld - the temperature differential between the manifold and the MIG wire means that the weld won't stick unless the cast iron is hot enough to melt/fuse/sinter - and that is where the thermal shock comes in....

.... it may look like it's worked, but the crack may well have grown (not necessarily visible) and the weld may or may not last.

If you use a grinder to cut the crack open into more of a slit, then MIG weld it, it will shatter the cast iron as the steel will expand and contract at a completely different rate and the finish size (cold) will be significantly different to the starting size (hot)....

.... however, cutting it into a slit, then using a gas torch and suitable filler rod to effect a brazed repair is perfectly feasible - it is just that you need to KNOW what the expansion/contraction of the base metal and filler will be - it is a skill that I don't have.

[RonR]

Time for an update as it's raining outside.

Exhaust manifold welded up:

Remade oil hoses using old ends:

Sump bashed to something like it's original shape:

New bearings in, rings gapped, view down newly honed bore:

Big ends angle torqued:

Valves lapped and installed:

Head and block reunited:

Cam belt fitted:

Bushes fitted - Poly for wishbones, rubber everywhere else - suspension sub-assemblies built up:

BUT...
Had my 10-Ton press up to 11! It still didn't have enough grunt to press in the lower ball joints. Need to find someone with a bigger press. Had to cancel the MOT this Friday so Silky won't make it to CC

Edit: While I was writing this it stopped raining, so on with the rebuild!

[Tuga2112]

Had my 10-Ton press up to 11! It still didn't have enough grunt to press in the lower ball joints.

cranking it up to 11 only works if its a Marshall...no point on trying with any other brand.

[HJ2]

That looks like a beautiful engine!

[TrevorB]

Ron, I wonder where you got the colour scheme inspiration for your head from?

Great job , shame that she's not going to make CC. Are you going to make it though?

[dapinky]

I managed my ball joints with a 'Fisher-Price' press rated at 6T..... either your hole is a bit tight or mine is a bit slack - (I think it should go anyway as I've known people fit them with a hammer and drift.

It is certainly a lot easier to build the units up on the bench (or floor!) and then lift them into the car, but here's 2 tips that you may or may not have already considered (and I learned the hard way!)

1) fit the hub carrier before lifting the unit in (or certainly before putting the driveshaft through) as it is impossible to torque up the ball joints with it all in the way.... then the drive shaft will go in before sticking the yokes on the shocks and then fit the upper ball joint to the arms, job done without having to fit, remove, refit, remove, refit etc etc.

2) remember to fit the chassis support bar to the car before lifting the raft into place - certainly make sure that the front-most bolt that holds that bar to the raft/prongeron is dropped through before the driveshaft is in the way.... otherwise you'll probably tear the rubber boot when trying to get the bolt in (luckily, I keep spare boots on the shelf!) - the bolt I mean is the one with the thinned-down head - the others are fitted from the bottom anyway, so it is obvious which one is the potential problem.

[Tuga2112]

I managed my ball joints with a 'Fisher-Price' press rated at 6T..... either your hole is a bit tight or mine is a bit slack - (I think it should go anyway as I've known people fit them with a hammer and drift.

when i had to remove my passenger side lower ball joint last year to fix an MOT issue. i was unable to remove it using a screw type press with MAP heat even after trying to "shock" it out with a sledgehammer while under tension.
the local garage looked at the bent 'C' frame of the screw press and told me their press couldn't separate whatever bent that metal.

i had to take the whole lower wishbone to a shop that specialises in tractor prop shafts to let them have a go at it

its worth noting that the ball joint being removed was fairly new as well. (it was fitted when i installed new bushings and got the arms powder coated )
i wonder if there is something different about the newer replacement parts that makes them harder to remove than the original ones (the original one was removed with trivial amount of effort when i was getting the arms ready to powder coat)

[RonR]

When I removed the old ones the press was up around 9 tons and they came out with a loud bang. I put it down to them being in for years, but maybe the holes are actually smaller than usual?

I'll have another go later today, adding more copper grease and a different mandrel might help. I thought I heard my press let out a small sigh when I finally gave up the other day and let the pressure off!

Meanwhile - Adjusted the steering rack as it had to be moved out of the way to get the rear engine mount back into the chassis void, and it's easy to do with no Prongeron in the way.

[Tuga2112]

I dont know what kind of design your press is. but if there is some way you can pressure the joint and then add a shock to it, id suggest giving it a go in the event you didnt try already.

[RonR]

Yes Trevor, I'll come to CC in the BMW and hide it in a corner somewhere!
I'll bring the logger and laptop with me, BTW did you ever get your updated laptop to work with Elanscan?

Small update: A 60-Ton press was able to push home the ball joints

[Tuga2112]

i know this is a little but.

i got a suggestion based on my personal experiences over this week.

-- keep taking pictures. that intake manifold picture you posted on facebook allowed me to remove all fasteners last night in less than 90 minutes (would have been less than 60 if i didn't drop 3 sockets and spent an eternity fishing for me unsuccessfully) since you have everyhtign looking so shiny and apart. i think we could potentially take the lot and make a modified version of the parts manual with real pictures of the parts so that any drawing inconsistencies can be highlighted (i know when i did the plenum before, the drawings were nowhere near as helpfull as that picture you posted yesterday.

also. on the topic of elanscan.
ive borrowed a cable and connected to my windows 10 laptop.
followed the instructions (which for a techy like myself were very easy to follow)
and it all worked on first try. so as far as using that cable (which i believe it's one of those made by geoff) the system works great.

[RonR]

Glad to have helped Joao,

Hope to see you at CC!

[TrevorB]

Yes Trevor, I'll come to CC in the BMW and hide it in a corner somewhere!
I'll bring the logger and laptop with me, BTW did you ever get your updated laptop to work with Elanscan?

ElanScan downloaded ok and I'm able to read the files that were produced.
Not sure the cable is being recognised by Windows 11 so will bring everything with me to CC for you to investigate, please.

See you Saturday.



Trevor