Starter Button

[tweetdriver63]

I bought a starter button on ebay which arrived today. I'm not starting this job immediately, so there's time for me to ask for some advice/help. First, here's a photoshop job of the button installed in the location I'm planning to use.

starter button plan.jpg (88.11 KiB) Viewed 6785 times

The button has a relay, and it came with instructions. One problem is that the instructions aren't very clear (typical when something is made in Asia). The whole setup seems to be of good quality (pushing the button has a good, solid feel). There are 5 wires coming from the relay. One large black wire goes to the button. The other four wires are a smaller black wire and a red one, and two blue wires.

The wiring instructions say:
The free (smaller) black wire goes to the (-) battery or metal bodywork.
The red goes to "Terminal 15 (the power path that passes through ign.)
One blue goes to "Terminal 15 (ign.) behind the ignition switch.
Second blue goes to "Terminal 50 between the ignition switch (the power path from ign. to starting motor).

It also says: "Red wire - It is a power for the LED light; attach to your starter cable "15." Blue wires - One attach to your starter cable "15" again, with another one attach to the ignition cable "50."

I've looked at the electrical manual, and the circuit diagram looks to show 3 wires from the ignition switch: BR to Crank, B to Ignition, and R is the HOT.
Ground is obvious, but do I need to make sure it's a ground that can handle a lot of juice, or is any ground OK?
It would seem that the red wire just needs to go to a constant hot. Beyond that and the ground, I'm not sure how to connect the blue wires.
Any advice would be apprectiated.

[GeoffSmith]

Chris,

The numbers 15 and 50 are both DIN 72552 identifiers. It's slightly misleading and they appear to have transposed the 15 and 50 in the second statement but this is how I interpret it:

Black is ground and will only carry a small current for the LED and relay coil, so any available earth.

Red is for the LED so they appear to be saying either take to IGN (B) position on the ignition switch if you want the LED on when the ignition is on or to the CRANK (BR) position if you want the LED on when you are cranking (not sure what the bling boys' convention is ) however if you go for the latter, I don't know where the relay gets its power from so I'd favour the first option.

Blue are the relay outputs (basically a switch) which you connect in parallel with the switch to the starter relay i.e. to the IGN and CRANK terminals.

Geoff

[tweetdriver63]

The circuit diagram for the ignition switch shows the 3 wires (+12V, Crank, Ign) going through a harness connector coded as "ISHC." I'm sure the abreviation is for Ignition Services Harness Connector or Ignition Starting Harness Connector. It's not really important what the letters actually stand for, but there isn't a connector coded "ISHC" listed on the conventions page or shown on the following pages diagramming all of the harness connectors. I could've missed something, but I took a look through all of the circuit diagrams, and I didn't see the "ISHC" connector shown anywhere else, so I'm assuming the three wires from the ignition switch are the only ones connected into it.

Anybody (Geoff?) know where to find that connector? It seems it would be much easier to splice into the leads there than up inside the column (unless, of course, the connector IS inside the column).

[GeoffSmith]

I would imagine that it is the Ignition Switch Harness Connector i.e. three of the connections you require. Ignition switches are usually on a small pigtail, so it is probably up inside the steering column.

[lotusgirlmarie]

The connector is on the back of the ignition key solonoid in the column. Thankfully you only have to remove the bottom of the shroud and the knee bolster. When connecting the wires make sure you use true ignition as there are two ign wires. One stays hot when you crank the engine, the other does not. The best ground around that area is the grounding lug under the dash above the bonnet release.

[tweetdriver63]

The connector is on the back of the ignition key solonoid in the column. Thankfully you only have to remove the bottom of the shroud and the knee bolster. When connecting the wires make sure you use true ignition as there are two ign wires. One stays hot when you crank the engine, the other does not. The best ground around that area is the grounding lug under the dash above the bonnet release.

I may be remembering wrong, but it seems like when I had to repair my ignition switch a while ago, I had no problem getting the shroud off without removing the knee bolster (which is an incredible pain in the arse to do). Of course, I think I also had the steering wheel off (which turned out to be unnecessary). Getting the wheel off is really easy though, compared to the knee bolster. I was kind of hoping I could find the wires under/behind the dash, but no biggie. If I have to take the bolster off, I guess it will be time to finally replace the fuel guage voltage regulator thingy on the back of my fuel/temp gauge. It sure would be nice to have a working fuel gauge again. (I may have just decided what I'm going to do this weekend -- tackle both jobs)

[lotusgirlmarie]

Yep. You can take off the wheel to gain access but there won't be much room to play with on the wires. The bottom shroud has four screws. Two on the bottom going up and two that go in from the sides that are obscured by the knee bolster. The top shroud has a plastic ring that surrounds the horn/airbag connector ring. Once the wires go out of the column part goes to the relay centre under the dash and the others go down the centre console to the relay/deil centre behind the driver's seat.

[tweetdriver63]

Yep. You can take off the wheel to gain access but there won't be much room to play with on the wires. The bottom shroud has four screws. Two on the bottom going up and two that go in from the sides that are obscured by the knee bolster. The top shroud has a plastic ring that surrounds the horn/airbag connector ring. Once the wires go out of the column part goes to the relay centre under the dash and the others go down the centre console to the relay/deil centre behind the driver's seat.

Marie, I've noticed you've developed a British accent in your writing (centre, bonnet, etc). I wonder if all your involvement here and with your car have also started giving you a British accent when you speak?



Seriously, though, I'm pretty sure the shroud screws that are covered by the bolster are missing on mine. I would have liked to find those 3 wires in an easy spot, like in the relay center on top of the dash, but since I've been avoiding pulling my instrument cluster out to replace the fuel gauge voltage regulator (mostly because I didn't want to hassle with the knee bolster again), I figure now's the time to do both. Too bad I don't also have a set of Metal Monkey dial faces to install right now. Someday I need to do that too. Love the updated look, and my oil press gauge has gotten freckles.

[tweetdriver63]

Ok, I took a look at the wiring connections to the ignition switch. Here's what I found:

ignition wiring.jpg (58.98 KiB) Viewed 6643 times

Now, here's what that part of the circuit diagram looks like:

ignition switch diagram.jpg (32.42 KiB) Viewed 6643 times

As you can see, the diagram only shows 3 wires from the ignition switch, but there are actually 4. My problem now is sorting out what each wire is, and how they relate to the diagram. If I assume the wires that show in the picture are AFTER the ISHC, which I think is correct, then the White, Brown, and White/Red wires are the 3 in the circuit diagram. The Green/Brown one isn't in the diagram, anywhere on the page.

The large brown wire would be the one carrying +12V through the 40A maxifuse from the battery.
The large white wire would be the one from the IGN connection, which goes to ignition fuses, ignition coils, etc, but it seems odd to me that it's such a heavy gauge wire, when the diagram shows those all to be 3A circuits.
The White/Red wire would then appear to be the one coming from the CRANK position, going to the starter relay.

So, am I right about those 3 wires, and what is the Green/Brown wire?

[lotusgirlmarie]

Fed cars also have an Acc wire for the radio. Best to test the wires with a test light or DMM.

I am Irish/Italian after all. It's how I learned.

[tweetdriver63]

I looked at a few youtube videos, and it appears the normal setup has the LED come on whenever the key is in the ignition position (on).

So, the black wire goes to ground, and I connect BOTH the red wire and one blue wire to the white (IGN) wire, and the other blue wire to the Red/White (CRANK) wire? I don't connect anything to the heavy brown wire (from battery) or to the green/brown wire (radio lead).

[Ade]

Hi,
I have a start button fitted. I kept it simple. Just connected across the two ignition switch wires, did,nt use a relay, perhaps i should have, but it as worked fine for several years now, Then connected the led to the dash light wires and to earth. It also alows me to still use the ignition switch if there is ever a problem with the starter switch. One of the features of the switch is that you can crank the engine over before it is started, which after the car as stood for a while is useful to circulate the oil before you fire up.

ALIM0146.JPG (34.9 KiB) Viewed 6622 times

[speed-demon]

So you put the key in the ignition and turn it half way. Then stop. And reach to push a button?

Can I just ask... Why????

[tweetdriver63]

Ade, even with the relay this kit has, the original key-starting will still function.

Speedy, I like the push-button start so many new cars have. I'm putting one in for that reason, and it's a small modernization. From a functional perspective, it's not really an improvement, but then again, how many mods do we all make that are like that? We do a lot of them just because we like the way they look. We change the dial faces. We get different wheels, shift knobs, etc. None of those things improve performance or handling, but we still do them because they're a personal touch, and make us feel more connected to our cars.

Ideally, I would be installing a keyless push-button system, which would eliminate the key entirely. That kind of setup has a remote keyfob that has to be within a given distance for the button to start the car. That kind of setup also costs $400, and is a bigger job. I just don't have the money to spare on a $400 elective part. The one I got, which is a compromise (maybe someday I'll have the money sitting around to go keyless), only cost about $25 on ebay.

[Ade]

Hi
I know what you mean about the push button switch, I like them do,nt know why, but there is just something about pushing a button rather than turning a key. Perhaps it goes back to my youth when performance cars always seemed to have a push button start or am i just imagining that. Plus as I said earlier I find it very useful for cranking the engine over before starting after standing for a long while.

Ade

[speed-demon]

Understood. But I still think you're nuts!

[tweetdriver63]

Understood. But I still think you're nuts!

Yeah, I can live with that.

[tweetdriver63]

Well, it's done. I soldered one blue into the crank connection at the ignition switch harness connector, and I spliced the red and the other blue together (Not sure why they had two wires for those) and soldered them into the IGN connection. I just spliced the ground wire into an easily accessible ground wire under the binnacle.

One thing: those idiots who made this kit had the button hard-connected to the relay, which is a lot bigger than the button. I'm not sure how they expected anybody to cut a hole for the button that would allow them to get the button on one side of it and the relay on the other. I had to cut the wires to the button, put the wires through the hole, then join the wires back together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHZctAna3iQ

[lotos]

I think it's pretty darn cool - I like it! It'd be great to go the next step that you outlined - keyless as lots of new cars are these days. But as it stands, you're just like the Honda S2000 (Key in, then push button) so it's not unheard of.

[Ade]

Hi Lotos,

glad to see you have joined us nutters. Welcome.

Ade