Reading Elan Scan results

[Specky]

I've just done a static run, cold to hot. First run since a head rebuild.

How do you make head nor tail of the results?

I can happily see all the information, so I can tell my thermostat is slightly open and opens fully at 65 degrees, but I would like to know about flags and how to understand them.

I guess I've got some, how do you find out what they are and where they are?

Does Elan Scan have an alarm, I've got something in my mind that says it does?

Expect more stupid questions...

I know I could post the scan, but I think we could all do with a bit of education.

TIA

TTFN

[Specky]

The faults legend says "0", does that mean for the Whole time or just for that snap shot?

I could do with an idot guide...

TTFN

[Specky]

Does the Elan scan alarm come on at 100 degrees, cos that's when it started "binging"?

TTFN

[saska]

The faults legend says "0", does that mean for the Whole time or just for that snap shot?

The ECU will store fault codes until the engine has been started something like 50 times without that fault and then the fault will be cleared. That or the battery being disconnected for 15-20 minutes will usually clear any faults stored.
A short course in bits, bytes & binary follows:
A Bit is like an on/off light switch: it has a value of 0 or 1 which in the light switch is off or on.
There are 8 Bits in one Byte, so like 8 light switches, each with a possible position of 0 or 1 (off/on)
So each Flag is 1 byte (8 Bits) and each Bit has a position of 0 - 7 (so 8 values -identifies which light switch) and each value can be 0 or 1 (off/on) + total of 16 possible values to each Flag (Byte)

We normally use a decimal system which has the 10 characters 0 - 9 -- so it is Base 10
Binary has 2 characters 0 or 1 -- so it is Base 2
A Byte is 8 Bits so 16 characters 0-9 + A-F (0 - F) -- hexadecimal (Base 16 or 2^4 bits)
What ESM did in Elanscan was identify which flags are which. Which flag is Coolant Temp, which flag is Spark Advance, etc. and how to read the hexadecimal (sort of binary) values and represent them in a meaningful way.
So EGR On/Off (Flag 12, Bit 5) is just one bit either 1 or 0 (on or off) or coolant temp which will take 1 or 2 bytes to show either 85C or 100C.
85 (decimal) = 1010101 (Binary) 64 + 16 + 4 + 1
100 (decimal) = 1100100 (Binary) 64 + 32 + 4
Computers, ECUs, etc. at the basic level of logic, only ever do: and, or, not
HTH

[Specky]

Cheers that makes perfect sense, we use nearly an identical system at work. (GRAF)

But that's not what I'm after:-

I'm was after a more simplitic way of looking at it, a beginners guide as such...

Tonight I've had a chat with theelanman and this is what I think I understand:-

Get the Elan Scan up and running on your computer and get it hooked up to the car.

Basically start talking, start logging, start car, Aquire information for what ever duration you require, stop logging, stop talking.

Now save the run and name it as you wish.

Then it's on to diagnosis.

Looking at the left hand side of the screen,

You'll start with the Prom Id, basically what chip is running in the ECU.

Next is Faults, this should be zero, but if you get a fault, expand the drop down, you should see a list commencing with VSS, if any of these stays "ON", that's your fault. (Is this same fault that puts on the CEL?)

as an example Gareth had:-

Faults 1
CTS LOW "ON"
all the rest were "OFF"

He then looked at the graph,Time V Temp, He could see the CTS (Coolant Temp Switch) was reading -35 oC, which was obviously wrong.

This was also backed up by the information on the left column which is a snap shot in time, the time is shown in the right column, position this with the cursor on the graph.

Gareth could also read the temperature at his chosen snap shot in time by looking in the left column next to the "CTS TEMP".

Things that would be good to know are what perameters are acceptable,

Here's a few examples:-

1250 RPM is not acceptable at idle, but it is when you've just started the car it should drop in stages to about 950 RPM as the car warms up.

The themostat will open at 80-85 oC
The fans should kick in at 107- 110 oC
The "Elan Scan" coolant alarm will "Bing" at 100 oC
The fans should cool to about 100 - 103 oC

Basically all the parameters all the way down the left,

Things like the Spark advance would be good to know, Static and dynamic runs.

Finally, what are those Flags down the bottom?

The top half are flags as well, but ESM has given them names like "Coolant Temp" etc

If anyone can see anything amiss in what I've just said please correct me.... and definitely add to it

Lets spread the love...

TTFN

[saska]

I'm was after a more simplitic way of looking at it, a beginners guide as such...

Don't think that will be trivial to do but I'll work on it when I've more time. The way I read a scan initially is look at Prom ID so you know what to expect.
Then look at faults if any. I then leave X-Axis as Time and Select Distance for the Curve Parameter. I then Down Arrow (on the keyboard) through all the parameters looking for oddities.

Tonight I've had a chat with theelanman and this is what I think I understand:-
Get the Elan Scan up and running on your computer and get it hooked up to the car.
Basically start talking, start logging, start car, Aquire information for what ever duration you require, stop logging, stop talking.
Now save the run and name it as you wish.
Then it's on to diagnosis.
Looking at the left hand side of the screen,
You'll start with the Prom Id, basically what chip is running in the ECU.
Next is Faults, this should be zero, but if you get a fault, expand the drop down, you should see a list commencing with VSS, if any of these stays "ON", that's your fault.

Yep that's the way.

(Is this same fault that puts on the CEL?)

Yes

Things that would be good to know are what perameters are acceptable,

A better way of putting it would be; 'which combination of parameters are acceptable?'
So under high revs & high boost, the Air:Fuel Ratio will drop from 14.7 to 10 - 11 as the ECU richens the mixture to protect the engine.

Here's a few examples:-
1250 RPM is not acceptable at idle, but it is when you've just started the car it should drop in stages to about 950 RPM as the car warms up.
The themostat will open at 80-85 oC
The fans should kick in at 107- 110 oC
The "Elan Scan" coolant alarm will "Bing" at 100 oC
The fans should cool to about 100 - 103 oC

All the above looks good to me but I've never seen a 'coolant alarm'

Basically all the parameters all the way down the left,
Things like the Spark advance would be good to know, Static and dynamic runs.

That's a lot of parameters to explain.

Finally, what are those Flags down the bottom?

If you expand them out then some of the parameters are identified. For example, Input Flag 23 bit 2 is Steering Load Normal: On or Off . Think this is probably the sensor on the power steering pump which when it goes to On the ECU uses to adjust the idle probably via the IAC. Similarly Flag 23 Bit 7 is AC Clutch: On/Off and the ECU probably uses this flag to adjust idle when the Air Con is ON.
Think the rest of the unidentified flags/bits are either not known or not used. As, I think Tigerdog noted, these ECUs were used on a lot of cars.

I'll work on an 'Elanscan - Interpreting a Log File' Wiki page when I've more time. Currently work and jobs on the 2 cars are making time scarce.

[Specky]

That's a top reply,

I know what you mean about finding the time...

I'm gonna do a few scans in the next few weeks and I'll put the information gained on here and see if people find it useful, Especially with there own interpretation of their results.

I'll break it down into two runs static and dynamic.


TTFN

[Specky]

Just thought, there's gotta be an "AP" for that!!!

TTFN

[RayD]

I think we could all do with a bit of education.

Excellent idea Dave.

[saska]

Just thought, there's gotta be an "AP" for that!!!

Yeah, I know. I'd already thought about: 'how could you automatically analyse an elanscan log file to identify problem(s)?'
The basic problem is there are too many interdependencies between the individual parameters. You can easily say: 'this specific parameter is odd or out of range, you can also quite easily say: ' when this parameter is within this range and that parameter is within some other range' then that is Good or Bad but when you get to 3 or more parameters being calculated by the ECU, then life gets more complicated. You'd have to have the Raw programmng logic (the algorithms used) of the ECU itself to have any hope of doing an automated program or AP.
So imagine: When flag so and so, bit whatever is on/off and flag something else is within this range but when flag something else 2 is such and such do this but when flag something else 2 is NOT such and such do something else.
Is it possible to Reverse Engineer the algorithms -- possible but hard. ESM may have already done so, or he didn't get to the algorithms but just altered the individual parameter values to be used by the algorithms. Dunno, you'd have to ask him.
Which ever way, I'm not reverse engineering the algorithms to make an automated analysis program. The testing alone, to ensure there wasn't an error in them, would take weeks or months.

[ivar]

Hi !
It is not easy to understand the results from Elanscan. Like what is the correct data driving at 60mph in 3'rd, or 4'th.
Is there a manual somewhere, similar to the manual for "Freescan" (for Esprit's) ?

[saska]

It is not easy to understand the results from Elanscan. Like what is the correct data driving at 60mph in 3'rd, or 4'th.

Good question -- there are a lot of parameters to explain for the condition of driving at 60mph in 4th -- depends on whether the car is open loop, closed loop, temp is above or below 50°, is A/C on or off, what the engine 'learning' is saying, and a bunch more things. In short, there will be variations from one car to another in the Elanscan readings doing 60MPH in 4th.

Is there a manual somewhere, similar to the manual for "Freescan" (for Esprit's) ?

Not that I'm aware of. Most of the information I've gleaned about how all the sensors & ECU interact with the engine has been gleaned from the Engine Management Manual.

[Lotus54]

Is there an engine management manual for Federal cars?
I understand they are closed loop and what I saw in that manual was open loop.

I have a California car, anyone know the difference compared to 49 state?

Mark

[saska]

Is there an engine management manual for Federal cars?
I understand they are closed loop and what I saw in that manual was open loop.

There is a Closed Loop manual -- I've put a copy HERE (beware it is big -- ~58Mb). I reduced the original from 101Mb but beyond that it was losing definition.

I have a California car, anyone know the difference compared to 49 state?

Dunno. I've never seen a Ca. engine management manual. The chip id is 9949 and ESM says that chip won't work in a 49 state car -- no idea why.
Maybe there is/are additional sensors -- like maybe the catalyst overheat sensor (supposed to be Japan only).
Think the closed loop manual will be pretty close for your car though.
Good luck

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Calif cars also have a EGR sensor.