elan scan drivers

[KenS]

Thanks Chris, thats good news. May help the understanding of Win11/driver issues and lead to as many solutions as possible in keeping ElanScan working with modern technology.
(the interface device can only be paired to one PC at any one time)

[chrism]

Yes Ken, yours is bluetooth - and if RonR comes up with a wireless solution then I think us LEC-ers ought breathe a sigh of relief (and gratitude for both of your pioneering skills...)

(Gotcha, a different bluetooth dongle for every new piece of hardware.)

EDIT:
So...counting the windows legacy Virtual Machine option running in the latest windows offerings as well, we should soon have at least two - probably three - means of embracing the win11/usb3-> entry point technology for late-to-the-party EScan users like me. I'm well happy with that!!! . To date the best I'd seen so far involved that multiple error log 'complaint' that seems to have been around for ages with FTDI patching. It's sooo...refreshing to see how EScan was working properly for LEC-ers 'of those early days'...

[RonR]

Moved to ElanBT thread Here

[RonR]

Latest update on the Elanscan Driver situation:

I've tried different USB-to-Serial chips, I could only test those that allow the BAUD rate to be set to the non-standard 8192 of our ECUs. They were:
Cypress CY7C65213
Silicon Labs CP2102

The upshot is: None of them worked! I was able to see data going from the Laptop to the ECU, and replies coming back from the ECU to the PC, but very few data packets actually made it back to ElanScan.

There seems to be a fundamental problem with USB3 where some data is being repeated on it's way in. Elanscan then rejects that packet, clears the buffer and starts requesting ECU data again. The only way to minimise the error is to use the "Latency timer" settings on the FTDI Driver Advanced set-up. The other chips' drivers don't have this adjustment available.

Also - Trevor and I tried his ES cable with his Windoze 11 Laptop and the settings in this post, we were able to log data to the PC - there were still some drops, but the data was at least usable.

I think this is about as good as we're going to get until someone at Microsoft or the USB chip maker fixes their code.

[chrism]

Yep I seem to remember around the end of win7 everything started changing and lots of drivers wouldn't work. I remember having to buy a new printer around this time (but it was time anyway...) and loadsa people got hot under the collar.

ElanScan well predates this - and I reckon any support that might have 'struggled on' since win7 has dwindled away. Usb improvements seem not to have helped, either. Let's face it, it's only us few m100-jocks mucking about with our ecus who wanted it occasionally...

Ron I know how much time, effort and personal expense you've put into this on our behalf and I'd like to express my personal gratitude.

[RonR]

But Chris, There are still plenty of people using serial comms, e.g. the millions of Arduino users, and there's nothing in the hardware stopping this working, I've seen the data going to & fro.
It's just a bug in the USB drivers that's causing it not to work.
Our biggest problem is to identify which driver / drivers are at fault and then getting the relevant companies to fix the bug.
All 3 interfaces I've tried produce exactly the same results, so I'm pretty sure the problem's not the fault of the Interface makers, but either M*cros0ft or the USB3 chip /driver manufacturers (In my case, Intel).

[matts1972]

But Chris, There are still plenty of people using serial comms, e.g. the millions of Arduino users, and there's nothing in the hardware stopping this working, I've seen the data going to & fro.
It's just a bug in the USB drivers that's causing it not to work.
Our biggest problem is to identify which driver / drivers are at fault and then getting the relevant companies to fix the bug.
All 3 interfaces I've tried produce exactly the same results, so I'm pretty sure the problem's not the fault of the Interface makers, but either M*cros0ft or the USB3 chip /driver manufacturers (In my case, Intel).

Hi Ron and all,

I have taken all your work that has gone into solving this problem and have drawn some conclusions.

I am quite sure that the drivers and Windows are not the root cause of this issue and that both are working fine.
This also means, that this problem will not go away with updates in Windows or standard drivers.

You mentioned earlier how the ALDL is very picky in regards to timing. You are absolutely correct, the problem is in fact that the Elanscan program itself does not seem to take this into account.

I know this is a bold statement: Elanscan works with classic serial interfaces only by accident.

So what really has to be done, is to fix the Elanscan code.
If this is not possible, then we need to create a Virtual COM-port driver for Windows that translates between Elanscan and the actual Windows COM-Port.
This needed translation is trivial and in my original ElanBT code for Arduino:

Code: Select all

void loop () {
while (Bluetooth.available()) {
while (Bluetooth.available()) {
Serial.write(Bluetooth.read());
}
delay(2);
}
Serial.flush();
while (Serial.available()) {
while (Serial.available()) {
Bluetooth.write(Serial.read());
}
delay(2);
}
Bluetooth.flush();
}

Well, it only seems trivial. It actually does implement an important thing: it forces a half-duplex communication and waits for each side to finish talking.
Add this to Elanscan or write a Virtual COM-Port and the problem is solved.

Cheers
Matthias

PS: How do I know this? I had similar timing challenges with ElanLogger and ElanBT

[chrism]

This sounds like good news, Matts.

Could it simply be a matter of adding this into the 'Elanscan' software that we currently download, calling it Elanscan1 (say), reloading this software then carrying on as normal with whatever version of windows we choose?

It'd be good if we could - or am I missing something?

[Simon_P]

I know this is a bold statement: Elanscan works with classic serial interfaces only by accident.

Yeah! That's pretty bold!

From my limited understanding of how it works from back in the days when you had to solder your own interface and then try and get it to work. There used to be a full description of how elanscan interacted with the car, the adapter and the pc ie what message the pc sent how that grounded the aldl how that caused the ECU to receive transmit data ie the whole sequence of events I don't thinnk there were too many "accidents" but computers were much, much, much, much slower so it would have been rather less critical.

Also keep in mind that this was all cutting edge 25 years ago so you could easily look up on the internet and see how other car brands/models were solving the same problem and designing interfaces.

[matts1972]

This sounds like good news, Matts.

Could it simply be a matter of adding this into the 'Elanscan' software that we currently download, calling it Elanscan1 (say), reloading this software then carrying on as normal with whatever version of windows we choose?

It'd be good if we could - or am I missing something?

Hi Chris,

it would be that easy if we had the source code to Elanscan or Alan would still be around to add this to the code - so effectively it will probably be not that easy.

Plan B is that we will have to create an additional small program that needs to be started before Elanscan. Elanscan will then talk through this program to the COM-Port with the Elanscan-Interface.
Right now I am looking into the details on how to implement this without too much hassle involved.
I have also started a small vbscript that could do this job, but it will also need to have https://freevirtualserialports.com installed.
This will probably work fine - it is just less convenient to require to install and run additional software compared to just Elanscan.exe.

I will keep you posted.

[matts1972]

Yeah! That's pretty bold!

I know - and please don't get me wrong - I truly love Elanscan and it is the most usable car diagnostic software that I have ever seen.
When Elanscan was written this issue was not apparent. I would have also not fixed something that was not broken.

[Simon_P]

A quick step back in time to a pioneering age!

ALDL.JPG

[Simon_P]

I know - and please don't get me wrong

I hadn't, I was just concerned that you might be going off at a tangent as the serial comms bit stuck in my mind as having been quite well defined.

I truly love Elanscan and it is the most usable car diagnostic software that I have ever seen.

As do I, I'm currently trying to find an OBD2 program that even begins to be as useful. Anyone have any suggestions I'd like a PC version as I like doing the analysis on a big screen rather than phone.

Looking through some old posts i found this from Alan:

I posted details of RS232-USB converters that use the FTDI chip in the ElanScan topic. Look here for suitable gear. The best way to be sure a converter uses the FTDI chip, where the blurb doesn't say, is to download the drivers and have a look at the files - some have 'FTDI' included in their filename.<br><br>I didn't need to rewrite ElanScan with an interface based on the FT232BM chip because it has virtual port drivers for it - so it looks like a serial port in software even if one doesn't physically exist.

Most of the old ALDL sites have long since evaporated but I did find this one which offers a reasonable overview for anyone who likes to try and understand what is going on https://www.clubcalibra.net/v6calibra/m ... odeECU.htm the latter part may be more relevant to this discussion.

My laptop recently decided that it would Update windows (after about a year and a half of not wanting to so I'm back to the 2005 XP laptop. A quick search of the internet and it seems as RonR says that there are lots of other interest groups .experiencing the same issue

[matts1972]

I hadn't, I was just concerned that you might be going off at a tangent as the serial comms bit stuck in my mind as having been quite well defined.

Challenge accepted However I admit that even I am wrong sometimes

I have finished the script but need to test it on the Elan over the weekend.

If you do not hear back from me, then I was wrong.

[Simon_P]

And if we do hear back from you then it works but it doesn't mean that you are right . I much prefer negative feedback! (Pun intended )

[matts1972]

And if we do hear back from you then it works but it doesn't mean that you are right . I much prefer negative feedback! (Pun intended )

Here is what I did today. I have installed a COM-Port bridge (com0com) and wrote a powershell script that allows to manipulate and forward the traffic between Elanscan.exe and the FTDI interface.
While this works and is a helpful tool to troubleshoot and perhaps even fix the problem, I noticed that Elanscan worked fine to begin with (USB3 and FTDI, however on Windows 10 22H2).

I could not even replicate the problem at all, and I have to admit that after browsing through the thread again, I am not even sure what the problem is.

So, while I was super confident that there must be a major issue with Elanscan handling the buffering via USB in context of the half-duplex nature of ALDL, I could not really find any evidence for this.

to all who I have offended by questioning Elanscan and also to Ron who obviously went to hell and back investigating the actual issue.

[Simon_P]

I have installed a COM-Port bridge (com0com)

great! (I'm just about keeping up!)

Elanscan worked fine to begin with

so does that mean its working as normal in 22H2 for you? I had a Windows update yesterday.

to all who I have offended

great to see you back with negative feedback, pretty sure that you haven't offended anyone

[chrism]

Just my twopenneth on windows EScan use...

I've seen absolutely tremendous efforts to patch up this usb ElanScan patient. It's true that it's such a useful tool we really have to keep his/her/them alive in this medium because it's all we've got.

BUT we now have Ken's/Matts' new bluetooth adapter which does exactly the same job without whatever is giving us those 'shouty' usb-caused error log files - and which gives us android ALDLScan as an extra just like Torque/TorquePro, as well!

So...why don't we legacy users - up to early win10 (clean load) and possibly the win10 22/23H2 if your old l/top has been upgraded from win7 (say) and can't 'do' any more upgrades like mine - use EScan, as before, until we need to buy new then transfer to the bluetooth offering which Ken has seen working on a win11 (or subsequent machine). I'm personally absolutely happy to continue to use (being a trialist) bluetooth EScan on my legacy Lenovo x230 win 10.

(I bought this old win7 l/top specifically to use with EScan on my m100. How many of us would buy £££new just for occasional garage diagnostic use?)

A 3rd option: Those wishing to use their newer l/tops can also load win7 'virtually' within win11 via 'VMWare' and run usb EScan if they want to continue to use their usb cabled connection instead.

PLUS this 4th option for usb-users if Matts' superb extra coding works for others as well. I'd certainly be happy to trial this too...

We have choices now. Surely we windows users can all be accommodated by at least one of these options? Due to these magnificant initiatives from Ken/Matts/Ron EScan will still prevail in windows now (and other medias can carry on as normal.)

ps Matts, I think the problem is in getting usb ESan to run on clean, new loads of windows. I could get it running (with error-log complaints) in win11 only if it had been been updated by windows from my win7/early win10 loads. Usb2->usb3 showed some problems too. Yet another is that my old l/top won't 'pair' with Ken's bluetooth EScan in win11, even tho' it does in win10. Ken's managed with win11 - so I reckon this might be due to the mainboard update limits of my old Lenovo

[matts1972]

We have choices now.

Thanks, Chris, I could not agree more. I actually have used Elanscan solely in offline mode for years now, as I always record the data with Elanlogger.
There are plenty of options (and I also keep my old laptops just in case).
Cheers,
Matts

[matts1972]

Elanscan worked fine to begin with

so does that mean its working as normal in 22H2 for you? I had a Windows update yesterday.

Well, for me it does - I used a Dell laptop with USB3.0.

And yes, you were right, Simon