Angie's new car......

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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby dapinky » Fri 27.01.2023, 22:38

JonLake wrote:Why not just use the second roof I supplied - I think the rear window on that is fine?


Jon, to be honest, I haven't had a good look at the second roof yet - it has gone into the storage area, to be worried about at some suitable time in the future! - I did notice that the seals all looked good, and I will combine the 2 items to get the best bits for the car. Certainly, as you say, the rear screen looks to be in really good nick, so it may be a simple case of bolting that one in as it is - only time will tell. Either way, I shall address the issue with the discoloured rear screen at some point, if only for a learning exercise.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby 378S2 » Sat 28.01.2023, 01:49

Hi Dave, would you mind sharing your ‘suspension refresh order list’ please? I’d love to know what you change as standard and where you go to get them. Do you do all bushes and struts?

Thanks
George
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby Saltire » Sat 28.01.2023, 08:37

378S2 wrote:Hi Dave, would you mind sharing your ‘suspension refresh order list’ please? I’d love to know what you change as standard and where you go to get them. Do you do all bushes and struts?

Thanks
George

Pardon me for jumping in . . . If Dave doesn’t, I may still have my full order list from three years ago; I can look if you need it.

I replaced springs (originals - SJs), dampers (OE not available, so Avos - Merlinj, and all bushes and ball joints. I fitted new OE rubber bushes wherever I could - this is particularly important for the raft bushes - and poly otherwise. These came from SJ where they had them, or SouthWest Lotus otherwise.

I had all the suspension components stripped and powder coated before reassembly, and gave the chassis a good going over with POR15 and Dinitrol. (I didn’t remove the body from the chassis).

I run the Avos two clicks up from full soft, which gives a good compromise between handling and ride comfort on the appalling blacktop which passes for roads in SW England these days.

If I did it again, I’d make sure I had a better press; some of those new bushes are really tough to get back in the suspension arms.

I’ll also be interested to see if Dave uses stainless bolts. I replaced all mine with new OE, using a smear of copper grease to try to prevent corrosion in the future.

I derived my order list from De Roure here and here.

Over to Dave for a much more knowledgeable and considered answer :bowdown: :bowdown: :D
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby dapinky » Sat 28.01.2023, 11:02

Jonathan,

I believe you based your initial thoughts on my own approach anyway - so your list isn't too different than mine.

That said, I have yet to pull the trigger on shocks and springs, as it rolls round the garage quite happily on the 31 year old units, so they will get looked at later...... I've done the research though, and at the moment (much as I like AVOs on my own car) I will probably go for GAZ shocks as they are £20 each cheaper.

I have some enquiries out with spring manufacturers, but at the moment, no-one is interested in supplying just 4 units for a good price - or at least, no cheaper than I can get a set from Steve at SJs. Still waiting on 3 other companies. As with anything, it is the set-up which costs the money, and if I order 10+ units of each design, then the price comes way down..... maybe I'll look at a group buy, but as I say, not worried at this time. Also, depending on the condition of the current springs (not had a really good examination yet) I may just clean and paint them and fit them to new shocks..... I can then set the ride height to account for the 'sag' of the springs anyway.

As per above reply - all bushes get changed (I am fortunate enough to have a spare pair of rafts, so I have cleaned them up, removed the old bushes and pressed the new ones in, and that will save time later on. I also have a set of upper wishbone arms to do the same - but this car came with a brand new set, with no bushes fitted, so will have poly bushes pushed in.

Lower arms take a bit of cleaning up (not done this one yet) and I have yet to find a bad bottom balljoint.... I change the grease and boot as a matter of course.

I've bought a pair of top balljoints as a matter of course - not because the ball wears, but because the 2 bolts which hold it to the wishbone arms often seize in the joint housing, so it's easier to chop the bolts and replace the joints.... if the old ones are not seized, I'll keep them for another car (except they'll probably end up being used on someone elses car who needs them before I do).

The antiroll bar joint/pivot/link gets changed for an M12x160, grade 12.9HT bolt, 9 washers and a rose joint (detailed elsewhere).

I like to replace as many bolts as possible with Stainless - remember that most Stainless bolts are not HT, so are okay for fittings that don't take much stress, but I'd never use them on suspension units. All A2 Stainless bolts, and most A4, are rated as "70" (written as "A4-70") and unsuitable, but if you use "A4-80" then they have the same tensile strength as mild steel grade 8.8 bolts, so are okay for many/most of the replacements.

It is important to remember that stainless steel bolts 'stretch' more than mild steel, so torque figures need to be set approximately 25% lower to get the same tightness.

There are bolts which need higher grades than 8.8, so stainless isn't applicable - mainly the ones that take the biggest weights - ie, the bolts through the top wishbones/balljoints and the ones holding the yokes to the shocks - I just change them for new allen-headed ones and 'k' nuts.

After that, it is all just cleaning/painting/protecting everything using a good chassis paint.

This is my general "shopping list" that I am working to at the moment - it is by no means definitive - some items will be bought, some wont, depending on need when I get to them.

The items in yellow are 'ordered' orange are 'delivered', the ones in red I already have/had on the shelf.

The list of stainless bolts includes those for the prongeron, seats and various other bits and pieces.... it may need adjusting for your requirements as I already have some on the shelf.

shopping list.xls
(46.5 KiB) Downloaded 330 times
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby 378S2 » Sat 28.01.2023, 13:30

Thank you Jonathan, and thank you Dave - that is very helpful. When I look up the shocks they don't look right, but is that just due to stock photos?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby dapinky » Sat 28.01.2023, 13:58

The part numbers are definitely correct for AVOs and GAZs - many places use stock photos.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby Saltire » Sat 28.01.2023, 15:58

You’re quite right, Dave; I was standing on the shoulders of a giant - as so many of us do :bowdown:

It may be worth mentioning that there are two different part numbers for the springs, depending on whether you have an S2. I got my S2 springs from SJs without a problem, but worth checking when you order.
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby dapinky » Sat 28.01.2023, 18:56

Saltire wrote:It may be worth mentioning that there are two different part numbers for the springs, depending on whether you have an S2. I got my S2 springs from SJs without a problem, but worth checking when you order.


I'm not entirely sure what the actual difference between SE and S2 springs is - I know the Fed ones are different, to cope with the additional weight of the crash structure, and the NA ones are slightly 'lighter' duty...... but I have S2 springs on my SE and all seems well with the world.

As with many things, something 'new' to a very slightly different spec will still be better than something old and worn - with adjustable height shocks, the free length isn't too important as ride height can be set anyway, and any spring rate change will be marginal, and probably an 'improvement' anyway.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby dapinky » Sat 28.01.2023, 19:04

Anyway, lest show some actual progress - I have now finished the inner sills/jacking point work - and drilled some holes in the floor to allow any future water to escape easily.

I have never claimed to be any sort of welder, and usually add far too much 'filler' as I go - it may not look as good as a pro will do, but it certainly isn't going to fall apart!

20230124_183514.jpg

20230128_152551.jpg


All treated and ready for the next 30+ years
20230128_152608.jpg



All new bushes are now pressed into the rafts, so they're ready to go in.
20230128_152639.jpg
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby RonR » Sat 28.01.2023, 19:40

A quick Hub experiment update, awaiting the splitting of the thread....

Before you read on, a warning....
All modifications to braking systems are carried out at your own risk - If in doubt get a qualified engineer to help or do this for you.
I only have OEM and Civic Type R rear calipers to play with, so can't vouch for PNM, Hi-Spec or any other caliper you may have fitted.

I fitted the Daewoo-type hub onto my car yesterday.
Hub in place on Lotus stub axle.jpg


There's one large and two small differences to BB's hubs:
a. The overall diameter is 136mm vs BB's 122mm - but there seems to be enough "Meat" on the hub to have it turned down.
b. The hub centring spigot is 57mm vs BB's 60mm - an alloy spigot ring could make up the difference.
c. The hub locating screw hole may need to be re-drilled and tapped to suit the disk used.

To use this hub with the APEC DSK117 disk which is usually fitted with OEM calipers you'd need to get the hub turned down to 122mm/120mm as per the hub drawing further up the thread, then use a 57.1 to 60.1 spigot ring between disk and hub which will get you very close to OEM specs.

However, the disk I used for this test was an APEC DSK297, it's a 240mm disk, 42mm high, 10mm thick. It has a 57mm centring spigot hole so there was no need for a spigot ring, and the hub fits nicely inside the disk bell.
Disc + caliper attached.jpg

It fits into the caliper with room to spare, and there's a 2mm area on the outer edge of the disk which is unswept by the pads.
The disk inner face sits around 1mm closer to the caliper carrier than the OE hub/disk combo which results in the sliding pin bolts just scraping the disk, so I needed to either shorten the sliding pin bolts by 1mm or insert a washer between the slider pins and caliper carrier.

I haven't tested the handbrake as yet, and I need to find out if the OEM calipers are OK to use with a 10mm thick disk before carrying on down this route, but it looks promising so far.
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby nicowalker1 » Mon 30.01.2023, 14:14

dapinky wrote:Anyway, lest show some actual progress - I have now finished the inner sills/jacking point work - and drilled some holes in the floor to allow any future water to escape easily.

I have never claimed to be any sort of welder, and usually add far too much 'filler' as I go - it may not look as good as a pro will do, but it certainly isn't going to fall apart!

20230124_183514.jpg

20230128_152551.jpg


All treated and ready for the next 30+ years
20230128_152608.jpg



All new bushes are now pressed into the rafts, so they're ready to go in.
20230128_152639.jpg


Are the rafts the ones from my car?
I notice you’ve ordered the LED headlights, be interesting to see what you think of them.
I’m looking forward to seeing it finished. :burnout: :burnout: :burnout:
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby dapinky » Mon 30.01.2023, 14:32

nicowalker1 wrote:Are the rafts the ones from my car?
I notice you’ve ordered the LED headlights, be interesting to see what you think of them.
I’m looking forward to seeing it finished. :burnout: :burnout: :burnout:


The rafts were from yours, yes. I had to drill out one of the bolts at the top plate which had seized into the aluminium, but that was just time-consuming and boring - then clean them up, remove the knackered bushes and press in the new ones.... now ready to go!

I haven't actually ordered the headlamps - I don't know how good (or not) the current ones are, but the list shows them as a 'possible'. That said, I won't be getting them from PNM as I have found a seller (in China!) who can supply 4 LED units to UK spec and 4 mounting rings (with the adjuster screws) for a lot less cash.

£80 seems like a reasonable gamble to see if they arrive and can be made to fit & work!
LED headlamps.png


If the current mounting rings are rust-free (or easily repairable) then I may just try the lamp units, but if they are beyond (easy) use I may try the mounting rings and find a way to fit them to the pods.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby Tuga2112 » Mon 30.01.2023, 14:36

dapinky wrote:£80 seems like a reasonable gamble to see if they arrive and can be made to fit & work!
LED headlamps.png


if that works, its probably better than getting the neolite replacements i have found last year. i recall my rebuilding costs were 50 for the light units. plus 40 for the chrome surrounds while i reused the metal backing plates and original plastic rims

and i have low expectations of the neolite units given the amount of wear i witnessed on the ones fitted back in 2014-15
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby dapinky » Mon 30.01.2023, 14:55

My concern is that the mounting rings will sit too far forward, so may need to be adapted somehow...... when I did my car, I made the metal mounting plates from aluminium (can't remember what thickness, probably 3mm, but I can easily measure it), re-used the plastic, and had some chrome rings in the spares pile for the Triumph.

It may be that I can cut some aluminium plate again to mount to the Elan pods, and find a work-around. All that is well in the future though, and is just musings at the moment.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby dapinky » Mon 30.01.2023, 19:32

For anyone looking to get new shocks, I ordered a set of GAZ today from Balance Motorsport. Not only are they the cheapest I could find on a reasonably quick google search, but I got a phone call back within half an hour of placing the order and spoke to Julian.

He wanted to make sure that I was ordering the correct parts for my car, and was I aware that the spring platforms do not take 'standard' coil-over springs. I assured him that I was happy with the spring platforms as I will be using OE spec springs.

I was impressed that they wanted me to be happy with what I'd ordered.

He also said that GAZ shocks are made to order (on these ones anyway) and that the lead time is about 6 weeks, and wanted me to be aware of that. I assured him that was fine (and is why I am ordering them now, not later on).

Bloody good customer service, I say! - so far, I can only say good things about them.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby chrism » Mon 30.01.2023, 20:06

Yep cheapest rear GAZ by ~£9 a side before vat + del etc - and I was quoted ~5weeks too. For some reason they're made to 'order'.

Frustrating cos Balance are in my back yard, almost, and I didn't know until your post. I could've saved my own delivery cost and supported 'local'.

Didn't know about the spring platform tho' - I went for rear Gaz matching springs anyway (which are shorter). I don't think mine have sagged but I won't know til I get them off. They'll probably be worth cleaning up for the shelf. The fronts were still exactly the same free length but the dampers had endured 32+ years of use, so I 'thought it best'...
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby Tuga2112 » Mon 30.01.2023, 21:11

ordered the same set.

at the moment the discount code HOT works, and got me around 20 quid saved compared to the non-discounted price.
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby chrism » Mon 30.01.2023, 22:07

which website?
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby Tuga2112 » Mon 30.01.2023, 23:19

chrism wrote:which website?

the one Dave Linked in the previous message
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Re: Angie's new car......

Postby chrism » Mon 30.01.2023, 23:34

Even more savings then - thanks to both of you for sharing :D
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