Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

[dapinky]

Joao,

The clamshell is what we all know it as, but in the Workshop Manual it is referred to as the Front Topshell.

Removal is quite straightforward (and refitting is the simple reverse).

I just followed the procedure in the manual (Section BK, page 15 onwards)

Once you get it off, you may find one or two of the captive nuts/bolts have rusted away - the M8 ones for the bonnet height bumpstops can be replaced with an M8 flanged nut, glued in place.

The other one which causes problems (well, it did to me - and Pete as well) are the M6 thread which holds the bottom of the headlamp pivot bracket - it is a bighead bolt and mine had rusted and just turned when I wanted to undo it - once the clamshell is out it's easy to replace - I used stainless ones.

[GeoffSmith]

Just disconnect the battery and it's off!

[epipete]

The other one which causes problems (well, it did to me - and Pete as well) are the M6 thread which holds the bottom of the headlamp pivot bracket - it is a bighead bolt and mine had rusted and just turned when I wanted to undo it - once the clamshell is out it's easy to replace - I used stainless ones.

As Dave says, these can be a bitch, they have a very large head, about 2inch Diameter, and slot through the Clamshell from underneath (which is what Dave did) but since I didn't remove the clam I merely ground out enough depth in the pod recess and fibre glassed it in place and made good the paint work.

[Tuga2112]

Thanks for the tips dave & pete,

Dave,
When you removed yours, have you got any rough idea how long it took for the removal procedure ?

the labor manual says remove and reinstall 2 hours, replace takes 5, these estimates are probably done assuming no rust issues, I believe i have all the tools required i already know the front bumper takes me something between 20-30 minutes to remove. I just want to have a rough idea if the complete dis-assembly of all parts that are going to be painted can be removed in the first day.

[dapinky]

Joao,

It's hard to give an exact time as I was doing a complete strip-down so some bits were already out (arch liners, front undertray etc).

As you say, the bumper (once you know where all the bolts are!) is quite easy, and after that, the clamshell isn't at all hard - there are no hidden bolts - what you can see from the top, plus the ones behind the 'A' panels are all that actually hold it on. The only thing to remember is that (depending if it's been off before or not), the quantity of sikaflex used by the installer between the clamshell and the bulkhead shouldn't be huge, and will cut quite easily with a sharp knife blade.

If you undo everything you can find, it will be obvious if you've missed a bolt as it won't move - it isn't a tight fit anywhere and once undone will lift away without pulling hard. It is definately best to have an assistant to remove and then re-possition it to stop it flexing too much, but possible on your own.

You can leave the headlamp pods fitted if it makes it easier for you (and remove them afterwards) - but i took mine off first.... and obviously, the motors have to come off first as they bolt through the clam to the chassis.

Unless any of the bolts are especially seized, it shouldn't take more than half a day to remove.

[epipete]

And just to add to that, although I've never removed one myself, iirc there may be some spacers (is this right Dave?) the positions of which you should note for re installation.

[dapinky]

And just to add to that, although I've never removed one myself, iirc there may be some spacers (is this right Dave?) the positions of which you should note for re installation.

Oops, yep - forgot that bit! I had 2 spacers (thick M8 washers) which were between the longerons and the clamshell (one each side) - they just stay where they are as you lift the clamshell off - but as every car was build individually, your's may be different.

[Tuga2112]

Got the clam shell out,

I believe at this very moment i have no reverse light, as one of the only "two single bullets" i found (which seemed to connect to the gearbox?) was corroded and instead of disconnecting it came out of the connection (its gonna be tricky to take a soldering iron there, or whatever else for that matter)

referring the PAS Pump project creep

I Have read the manual about installing the PAS pump (pages 394 and 395 on service manual V6). i want to clarify something before grabbing the spanner.
"3 - Slacken the belt tension, release the bolts securing the pump to the mounting bracket and remove the pump and pulley assembly."
"5 - refit the pump in the reverse order to removal tensioning the belt as above."

In section HC5 (page 393) "the drive belt should be tensioned to 65 +- 7 kgf using a Burrought Gauge"
Google shop doesnt have these, ebay has only 2, (one from america) these things are around 50 quid, I'm not willing to spend that money in a tool i will use only once. I rather spend 50 quid printing off the manuals.

My question is,
do i really need such tool to do the job ? if not how can i get around it ? is this just a matter of tensioning the belt as much as i can ?

Also, as the clam shell is out, is there some other project creep its recomended that will not bankrupt me ?

[Tuga2112]

update on the progress of the painting the car again task.

just a bunch of pictures to show,












some of the bits that the previous paint was crap, now i think i got them right


here is a picture of the previous condition just to show why im happy i didnt f#ck up the paint in the area.


Headlamps with primer/filler, before painting




the whole car with primer.






and a couple of pictures of the result after the paint was put in.



I didnt take any pictures of the rest cus i forgot, and next time i post more pictures will probably be of the lacquer coat.

The power steering pump was replaced as i was not sure if mine was faulty or not but the steering does feel heavy compared to another elan i tested on.

next step which is going through the week is to put a couple of layers of clear coat, because i am pretty sure that was the major flaw in my previous attempt.

[Tuga2112]

Clear coat all in and all the panels are fitted.

i have now 2 problems in place, and i need help with 1 of them.

took the car for a test ride, i found the brake caliper seems to be stuck (disc gets really hot) I have fixed same issue in the other car before so i think i dont need help with that one.

the other issue i have is the side repeaters/indicators.

I connected them back on the connector behind the wheel arch but neither of them is working. the front indicators are working fine.
looking at the wiring diagram there's no fuses attached to the side indicators so i didnt bother looking for broken fuses.
the bulbs themselfs seem good (filament intact and connection has no visible damage)

according to the wiring diagram there is only 1 connector from the front indicators to the side repeater, as i connected the one behind the wheel arch i am baffled to what is wrong.

the side indicators were working before i took the car to bits, I investigated the wiring from the harness onwards and found a couple of loose female connectors just behind the light pods, I suspect these are related to my problem. BUT i cannot find any male connectors to plug into the loose females (no comments)

I have a multimeter to do any checks, but apart from checking if there is continuity in the indicators wires, i dont think there's much use for it in this current scenario.

[tb10]

Hi Joao,

Sometimes the very fine connectors on the lightbulbs themselves don't make contact with the loom connections or the connections themselves are dirty. Therefore clean the connections first and use your multimeter to check the voltage and then, if there's power, its got to be the bulbs. I say this as I had a similar issue.

regards

John

[Tuga2112]

Hi Joao,

Sometimes the very fine connectors on the lightbulbs themselves don't make contact with the loom connections or the connections themselves are dirty. Therefore clean the connections first and use your multimeter to check the voltage and then, if there's power, its got to be the bulbs. I say this as I had a similar issue.

regards

John

thanks for the tip john,

I have checked and can confirm that at least one side was a poor connection, the other side i tryied to adjust the wires of the bulb but ended up braking one of them, so just need to buy another bulb and give it a try.

on the caliper piston topic.... what seemed like was going to be a simble job got aborted when i looked into the design of the caliper and its not quite like the caliper on my other car. so..... back to the manuals see how to disassemble that one.

obviously, as usuall, if anyone has any tips on the subject feel free to let me know, there's no such thing as knowing too much when tackling a job around the car.

[Tuga2112]

An update and another call for help.

John,
Thank you.
You were right about the indicators. replaced the second bulb and not its all working. very strange that both would fail at the same time the same way. but im glad you stepped in with your information.

Call for help.
jacked the car, took the wheel out, took the 2 "pad retaining roll pins" out and the brake pad that is closest to the piston. then with a crowbar o pushed the piston back without any effort. and pushed the brake pedal all the way down to get the piston out. rinse and repeat about 10 times, then i bleed that particular line using a ez-bleed system.

reassemble everything and test drive, but the disk is still really hot. now.
I think the problem is in the caliper, as far as im aware the system works as the piston pushes out, one side makes pressure and then the oposite side (the outer pad) slides in to make extra pressure.

reading the manual (page 412 onwards) i struggle to follow the instructions. but i wanted to know from you guys if there is any need to tackle the "front caliper overhaul" job or not, as i feel more tempted to simply try the crowbar approach in the outer edge pad.

If there something i need to be aware of before going forward with the crowbar on the outer side of the disc plan ? Do i need to loose any bolts, or is there some particular place that i should grease up in order to make the caliper move easier ?

[tb10]

Hi Joao

I discovered that indicator bulb fix whilst waiting for an MOT the first year I had the car!

Regarding the brakes, it does appear that one of the pads is sticking on and, whilst I'm not an expert on the subject of brakes, I'd be taking the caliper apart again and making sure the caliper is clean and greased and then reassemble it.

Just don't get that brake fluid on the new paint!

regards

John

[Fredjohn]

Hi Jaoa

If the piston is moving freely, then you need to check that the calliper itself is sliding freely on the mounting bolts. This is most likely to be your problem, as if it sticks then one pad will be constantly rubbing on the disc. With both pads removed you should be able to slide the calliper backwards and forwards on the mounting bolts by hand. If not, then remove the bolts, clean the sliders and grease with Silicone grease on re-assembly.

Hope this helps.
John

[Tuga2112]

job done, now im not sure if both calipers are stuck or if both are good.

i took the car for a run, never gone faster than 40, and when stoped felt all discs. front ones where all too hot to keep the fingers there for more than a second, and the rear ones were luke warm.

i used copper grease on the sliders on reassembly as both my friend mechanic and the auto parts store told me to, (not sure if that is a silicone grease or some other equivalent alternative)

tomorow gonna take the car to work, see how it handles.

when i get back. assuming i dont spend hours working on something ill post the leftover pics from the painting, and start planning on the next upgrade.

[lotusflasherman]

job done, now im not sure if both calipers are stuck or if both are good.

i took the car for a run, never gone faster than 40, and when stoped felt all discs. front ones where all too hot to keep the fingers there for more than a second, and the rear ones were luke warm.

i used copper grease on the sliders on reassembly as both my friend mechanic and the auto parts store told me to, (not sure if that is a silicone grease or some other equivalent alternative)

tomorow gonna take the car to work, see how it handles.

when i get back. assuming i dont spend hours working on something ill post the leftover pics from the painting, and start planning on the next upgrade.

You may be able to find your problem by pad temperature - if the piston is sticking the inside pad will be hotter, if the sliding part of the caliper is sticking on the pins the outside pad will be hotter. With both pads removed you should be able to move the travelling part of the caliper in and out quite easily on the pins. Also check the piston moves in fairly easily. If it moves in OK it will have no problem coming out with fluid pressure behind it. If both these are OK your pads shouldn't rub the discs and get hot - though they do rely on a bit of disc run-out to knock the pads away. Single piston calipers have a habit of seizing on the sliding pins as they rust up a bit so unscrew them and get them back to bright metal with a bit of fine emery cloth and then some copperslip grease before reinstalling.

[Tuga2112]

job done, now im not sure if both calipers are stuck or if both are good.

i took the car for a run, never gone faster than 40, and when stoped felt all discs. front ones where all too hot to keep the fingers there for more than a second, and the rear ones were luke warm.

i used copper grease on the sliders on reassembly as both my friend mechanic and the auto parts store told me to, (not sure if that is a silicone grease or some other equivalent alternative)

tomorow gonna take the car to work, see how it handles.

when i get back. assuming i dont spend hours working on something ill post the leftover pics from the painting, and start planning on the next upgrade.

You may be able to find your problem by pad temperature - if the piston is sticking the inside pad will be hotter, if the sliding part of the caliper is sticking on the pins the outside pad will be hotter. With both pads removed you should be able to move the travelling part of the caliper in and out quite easily on the pins. Also check the piston moves in fairly easily. If it moves in OK it will have no problem coming out with fluid pressure behind it. If both these are OK your pads shouldn't rub the discs and get hot - though they do rely on a bit of disc run-out to knock the pads away. Single piston calipers have a habit of seizing on the sliding pins as they rust up a bit so unscrew them and get them back to bright metal with a bit of fine emery cloth and then some copperslip grease before reinstalling.

YThanks for the tips both Johns and Phill
What i did was.
took the sliders out, introduced them to Mr sandpaper and ensured they were well aquainted.
then cooper grease and reassemble.
(Obviously i ensured the sliders were moving easily by and before putting everything together. )

the trip to and from work had no issues at all and the discs were not hot, so i think everything is ok. maybe the calipers just needed a bit of use to get back moving. After all the car was stopped for (what feels like) over a couple of months.

I now have a set of seals to replace my old seals around the window. that Jamie helped me aquire. this should be the taks for the weeked, untill then i will (if i feel brave enough) start looking into the fascia panel mod that I been postponing for a few months now.

[tb10]

Good stuff

[Fetnas]

One thing, copper grease is not the recommended lubricant for the sliders. I think it has issues with the high heat and will thicken up over time which will cause the sliders to become stiff again. Silicon grease is the recommended grease and a small tube normally comes with the slider seal replacement kit. Silicon grease doesn't dry out over time or with higher temps. I would recommend putting the correct grease in there as you don't want to have issues with the brakes when you need them most!