Lotus Elan Central

by **Oliver** » Wed 03.01.2007, 22:19

Hello Geoff,

I can`t thank you enough for the time you are expending in helping me. We must make sure we meet at Donington.

I emailed the South West Lotus Centre in Devon (who are always at Donington) and they advised me as follows:

Dear Mr Beames,

Thank you for your internet enquiry.

The ECU's on the Elan M100 N/A's are different to the Turbo ones and they are not interchangeable. We do not currently have a N/A ECU in stock but we are able to order you a new one directly from Lotus Cars at a price of £286.16 + VAT. This item has an order time of approximately 7-10 working days, provided it is in stock at the factory. Carriage is an additional charge of £10.95 + VAT by next working day courier.

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,
SOUTH WEST LOTUS CENTRE LIMITED

If they are correct it is a bit of a downer. I still believe the ECU surely must be the same apart from the mem-cal unit. ? That`ll teach me to buy an entry level model !

The different M100 engine management manuals EMK + EML (NA and SE) refer to identical diagnostic terminals (Tech-1)

I have already started thinking about a Rover K series conversion (only joking)

Regards

Oliver

by **GeoffSmith** » Wed 03.01.2007, 22:55

Oliver,

I have another interface built which I will test tomorrow and send up to you to try.

I presume you have seen the replies by Clemo and Neil on your other thread. It might be worth a shot!

Geoff

by **ailwyn** » Wed 03.01.2007, 23:25

Geoff,

My guess is that Elanscan won't work (as-is) with the N/A ECU.

If I understand it correctly, in order to get the diagnostic info out of the ECU the data request has to contain the correct number of bytes fot the ECU to send, my guess is the N/A will send back less data (no boost or wastegate), and therefore requires a different request string.

Maybe Alan can shed some further light.

Oliver,

I believe the Tech-1 uses some sort of cartridge which is vehicle specific, so the N/A will probably require a seperate cartridge to the Turbo versions.

Ailwyn

by **GeoffSmith** » Wed 03.01.2007, 23:37

ailwyn wrote:My guess is that Elanscan won't work (as-is) with the N/A ECU.

That is what I am beginning to suspect, but I want to rule the interface out first. I also suspect that the bytes sent from the pc to trigger the ECU dump may be different, so I may ask Oliver to try a small programs out to try to find the key.

Geoff

PS Sorry Ailwyn, I had to raid your sex changer to get a spare interface built. :oops:

I'll be back on the case this week.

by **ESM** » Thu 04.01.2007, 14:16

While I can't confirm with any certainty than ES works with an N/A (I think Clemo tried it but I can't remember for sure) I still believe there an interface (or related) problem.

Its possible that both the car id byte and the data length might be longer with the N/A. However, the 'bad echo' problem wouldn't be caused by that.
ElanScan does the following for each packet during logging:

1) sends a mode 1 request
2) checks that the mode 1 request sent has been echoed exactly (an echo will happen if the interface and PC are working correctly, its independent of the ECU version). If the echo doesn't match or is not received a 'bad echo' error is reported
3) reads any reply from the ECU. If

a) no start byte (id byte) is received (but data does arrive) - report 'No frame start byte received'
b) too few bytes are received - report 'Not enough bytes received'
c) the crc byte (check for data integrity) is wrong - report 'Check byte failure'

or no data at all is received after the echo then a 'no reply' error report is made

4) the mode byte is checked to ensure the reply received is the type requested - if different 'Reply mode doesn't match' is reported
5) data is stored in the log

A failure at any stage prevents the next stage from being executed.

If the id byte is different then the ECU would not reply but the command should still be echoed as this requires nothing of the ECU the error would be 'no reply'.

by **GeoffSmith** » Thu 04.01.2007, 21:22

Reading back through the thread, Alan's right. You aren't even getting the data sent out by the pc returned correctly. I've checked out a new interface and it is fine. In addition to this, I'll see if I can knock up a static load which you can then bodge onto the ALDL plug to ensure that the pc/com port/interface are all operational, should the new interface not work.

Geoff

BTW Clemo didn't get around to trying ElanScan on his N/A.

by **Oliver** » Thu 04.01.2007, 23:10

Thanks Gentlemen.

Geoff, I`ll try the new interface ASAP and let you all know the results. I`ll drag my desktop machine into the garage to try the serial port on that.

Cheers

Oliver

by **GeoffSmith** » Fri 05.01.2007, 00:50

Oliver,

I've managed to adapt some pc power connectors to fit the ALDL plug and built a static bias board. All you have to do is provide power from a PP3 battery and you can check out your pc/com port and interface. Without power, you will get the now familiar "bad echo". When you power the board, the LED will light and you should get a "no reply" message.

Tomorrow, I will send you:

a) Serial interface #017
b) Static bias board - be careful, the tracking on the rear of the board is not insulated
c) Bias board power lead for PP3 battery
d) Bias board ALDL lead - Black is ground (ALDL pin A = brown), Yellow is ALDL signal (ALDL pin G = red) and Red is power (ALDL pin F = orange)

I suggest you use the bias board with the enclosed interface first, to confirm (or otherwise) that your laptop and com port are working. If this checks out, then connect it to the car otherwise try it on your desktop.

Fingers crossed!

Geoff

by **GeoffSmith** » Fri 05.01.2007, 20:40

Oliver,

Posted this morning first class, so you should have it tomorrow NOT.

Geoff

by **Oliver** » Sat 06.01.2007, 12:19

Morning Geoff,

Received a box of bits this morning, thank you. Am working all day Sunday so will try to get testing this afternoon. Will take care of parts and return ASAP.

Thank you

Pain in the backside (the car and myself.)

by **GeoffSmith** » Sat 06.01.2007, 15:48

This is worth reading! It may mean that ElanScan will not work with Normas. :cry:

Oliver, hopefully you should be able to get ElanScan to receive a "bad echo" message from the ECU. If we can get this far, then I will try and write a small program to find out the trigger command and grab some data. Even if you don't achieve this, if someone is close to Bristol, or is going to Donington with an N/A, I will bring along a portable scope to try to understand the mysteries of the wheezing Elan.

Geoff

by **Oliver** » Sat 06.01.2007, 18:41

Hi

Carried out your procedure as written and am getting the correct response from both cables. Tried your (No.17) cable on the car with the same results as before. So the ElanScan software as written does not support the N/A. I am aiming to do to Donington in the Elan, assuming it passes it`s MOT on Jan 16th!. The tester last year said the emissions were normal and it had the same overfuelling fault at that time.

I have noticed ElanScan generates some sort of log file which contains some set up parameters - can these be altered to be compatible with the N/A ?

If we get the Elan to Donny feel free to have a poke around !

I shall post back your diagnostic gubbins and cable on Monday.

Thanks again Geoff,

Oliver

by **Oliver** » Sat 06.01.2007, 18:52

I may have found an ECU i can try as well. Enright may have one going spare. I`ll let you know

Oliver

by **GeoffSmith** » Sat 06.01.2007, 20:33

Oliver,

I'm glad to hear that the pc/interface check out OK. I am now pretty sure there is something wrong with your ECU, because you should be able to read back what you were sending from the pc and get to a "bad echo" message phase. Unfortunately, there is no quick fix to getting ElanScan to work as you suggest.

Trying Neil's ECU is a sensible way forward and hopefully it will solve your problems. Please hang onto everything until you try out the new ECU (I can live without what I've sent you for the time being). When you get the new ECU in, could you try out ElanScan again and hopefully you will at least get to a "bad echo" message or maybe even further - this will be useful information for Alan and me. Depending on the outcome, you can send back your interface as well and I'll refund you as it's probably no use to you at the moment.

I am still interested in trying to crack the N/A comms, so if you do get to Donington in it, I may ask for a play with your ALDL port. I would also be very interested in taking a detailed look at your old ECU; you never know, I might even fix it.

Anyway, fingers crossed that this solves your problems.

Geoff

by **Sy V** » Sat 06.01.2007, 21:45

Fix it?

Do you want my track project car's old ECU to tinker with?

by **GeoffSmith** » Sat 06.01.2007, 21:55

I'd love to. If I can compare the two sisde by side, even better. See you both at Donny.

by **Oliver** » Sun 07.01.2007, 09:00

Thanks Geoff,

I am purchasing Enright`s ECU so i`ll let you know how i get on.
I`ll hang on to your bits and pieces - you know where they are !

Regards

Oliver

by **Oliver** » Sun 07.01.2007, 20:40

Geoff,

I don`t expect a refund for my cable, it`s not your fault. Anyway we may make it work yet. Also getting new TPS from Ekapol.

Oliver

by **GPT27** » Sun 07.01.2007, 23:34

I have an N/A Elan, an ALDL interface, the Elanscan software but as yet no laptop. I should be able to get one from work and give it a go but it'll probably be next weekend.

Hopefully I'll be able to prove or disprove the N/A theorys flying around.

I'll repost here with my progress.

by **GeoffSmith** » Sun 07.01.2007, 23:52

Grant,

Thanks for letting us know.

Geoff

Lotus Elan Central

Any advise on getting ElanScan working ?

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