Custom Made Wheels????

[Elanlover]

I think a lot of people, in a perfect world, would replace their wheels with a newer looking style that befits the Elan as well as possibly increase the size to 17x7. We all know how hard (impossible) it is to find a wheel that matches the OEM specs though.

I couldn't help but be curious if anyone had considered going to someplace like Team Dynamics and having some wheels custom made to fit our needs. I realize that having 4 custom made rims would be cost prohibitive for most but, if enough people got together for a group buy, the costs might become resonable. 20 people for 100 rims, for example, might get the costs lower.

Anyone every entertain this idea???????

[WillB]

One of the main problems is an Elan on 17" rims ruins it's ride IMHO.......

[Monty]

One of the main problems is an Elan on 17" rims ruins it's ride IMHO.......

You want to have a drive of pinky, with stiffened dampers and bucket seats Ochhhhhhhh!



Have a read of this
lotuselancentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=94027&highlight=#94027

[Elanlover]

You know, I thought there was a similar post on this but I couldn't find it. Probably scanned right over it. It would seem that there aren't that many people who are interested then...............

[Enright]

Did you see how difficult it was just to get everyone to agree on a design of sticker and mug?!?

If you take this on, I wish you the best of British.

[Elanlover]

Did you see how difficult it was just to get everyone to agree on a design of sticker and mug?!?

If you take this on, I wish you the best of British.

Ha! I'll take a pass I think

However, here's another strange thought I was having given the difficulty in finding +60mm offset wheels. Has anyone ever "plus sized" their wheels? As in going from a 7 inch to 7 1/2 inch wheel? Here's why I ask - and this is with the complete understanding that i know nothing about handling geometry.

If you put a 7.5 inch wheel on the car you'd add 1/2 an inch to the INSIDE of the wheel. What I mean is, if the wheel had the same +60mm offset, the extra half inch would jut further inwards towards the body of the car. So, my sometimes faulty math tells me that to "recenter" the wheel so its balanced as in the OEM spec, you'd need to splt the difference of the added half inch and deduct that from the offset. A quarter inch is just over 6mm. So, a 17x7.5 inch wheel with a +53 offset would not adversely affect the suspension gemoetry of put undue stress on the bearings. A 17x8 inch tire would require an offset of only + 47 to retain the original geometry.

Easier to find a wheel around +45 to +50mm offset than +60mm offset I think. This is all just fun, speculative ramblings and I already see one flaw with the math but you get the point. I don't know if a wheel that's half an inch or an inch wider would rub or not though.

[Sy V]

Aah, but then you have to consider a whole host of other variables. Not the least of which is scrub radius.

[Sy V]

Wheel Offset

The wheel offset is the distance from the hub mounting surface to the centerline of the wheel. The diagram shows a positive offset in which the mounting surface is outside of the wheel centreline. This suspension/ wheel combination was chosen to maximize performance. You can see that the suspension geometry intersects the centreline at the road surface for optimal handling.

[Sy V]

Often a driver will select a wheel with a smaller offset than stock. This diagram shows a zero offset where the mounting surface is equal to the wheel centre. (You could go even farther and select a wheel with a negative offset.)

A smaller offset will create a scrub radius which may affect the handling of the car, but there are a number of reasons why you may need to choose a smaller offset.

1. To compensate for a wider wheel: A wider wheel with the exact same scrub radius as the stock wheel will be positioned closer to the suspension components. If the wheel is too much wider, it will not fit. To compensate, you would choose a smaller offset to move the wheel away from the suspension.

2. To create a wider stance: By setting the wheels outward, the stance of the car becomes wider and stability is increased. In some applications, the benefits of this stability are greater than the drawbacks of the scrub radius change and the driver may make this compromise.

3. Looks: A smaller offset moves the wheels outward, so they have a tendency to fill out the wheel well better. Cars set up for show, more than performance will often choose a lower offset wheel, however, if the offset is too small the sidewall will rub the inside of the wheel arch.

[Sy V]

If you select an aftermarket wheel with the exact same offset, you will always have the exact same scrub radius. Suspension and handling properties will not change.

If the new wheel is wider than the stock wheel, you will loose clearance on both suspension and wheel well sides. There is obviously a limit to how much of a width change you can make.

[Elanlover]

Aah, but then you have to consider a whole host of other variables. Not the least of which is scrub radius.

Duhhhhhh..........what? Told you i knew nothing about suspension geometry.

However, your "explanation for idots" on this issue was pretty easy to follow (fortunately for me). And, I think the math I proposed would keep the scrub radius in check. If we used a 17x8 inch wheel with a +47mm offset wouldn't that "center" the wheel again such that the suspension is aligned as per the diagram you posted? An 8 inch wheel (as an example) with the right offset to keep the correct scrub radius (I'm liking this term!) in tact would essentially move the wheel half an inch further into the wheel well and half an inch further out to the street so to speak.

Good point and I'm learning something here!

[algirdas]

Dear Blair:

I had started to look into this earlier last year. I contacted some of the usual suspects (Boyd Coddington and one other California custom wheel house (can't remember but it was not Chip Foose), one local manufacturer and Compomotive Wheels in England. Boyd's shop could do them but the cost was obscene. Compomotive has a wheel that could be adapted very easily to our app but it isn't a very pretty wheel. Not ugly, but not very pretty.

All the inquiries require that the wheel be a direct replacement for a 16 inch Fed wheel. Same size, offset, center bore etc.

I quickly realized that I was way out of my depth and suggested to Marie and Brian to consider doing a wheel.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[F1 LOTUS]

I did make some initial enquiries into component costs for a 3-piece wheel design, the idea being to buy the spun aluminum inner and outer rim sections from a local manufacturer, and making our own centers. The cost estimate I received for the rim sections was around $150 per wheel, on top of this a billet center section I guess would be around the same cost [$150]? Throw in a handful of fasteners, seals and finishing costs and we're looking close to $400 for a 3-piece wheel? I reckon the spun parts are over-priced and would have thought these could be produced for less than $100 / wheel? Almost certainly an offshore source could do these at much reduced cost, but then it's lot more hassle to organise
Possibly a really determined effort could get cost down to $300-$250???
Anybody know the cost of replacement rim sections for BBS wheels I've not had any luck googling for these yet?

[DeeAitch]

Sy is correct

The wheel offset is the distance from the hub mounting surface to the centerline of the wheel

Therefore increasing the rim width will not allow a reduced offset as any change would be symmetrical about this centre line. All assuming you select a tyre profile which keeps the rolling radius ( & the gearing) the same and you are trying to keep the tyre contact patch in the same place Lotus intended.

Now if you were really clever and knew the angles of steering axis inclination (SAI), camber (which we do know) and loads of other dimensions you could probably calculate a new offset / rim Dia / tyre profile combination which would keep the centre of the tyre contact patch where Lotus wanted it to be! Then you are into loads of other areas such as Ride quality, un sprung mass, steering effort etc etc.

So you now have an insight as to why those Engineers at Lotus are held in such high esteem – or did they just get lucky, again and again and ……..?

I think we have ‘negative’ scrub radius – normal on FWD anyway. In other words the centre of the tyre contact patch sits inboard of the intersection of the SAI and road surface. Decreasing the offset, without other changes, will move this towards zero or even positive scrub radius see here for some good basic info.

A bit off topic but does anyone know of a simple way of measuring the castor angle / scrub radius?

[GeoffSmith]

So isn't the simple answer to correct for wheels with a smaller offset to add a spacer (and longer wheel bolts)?

[DeeAitch]

So isn't the simple answer to correct for wheels with a smaller offset to add a spacer (and longer wheel bolts)?

Sorry Geoff but the offset goes inboard so you either need wheels with an offset greater than 60mm or 'negative' thickness spacers

[GeoffSmith]

Thanks Dave. Of course it is.

I'll stick to electronics where current is electrons flowing the wrong way - hell of a lot easier to understand!

[DeeAitch]

I'll stick to electronics where current is electrons flowing the wrong way - hell of a lot easier to understand!

Is that the "negative is actually positive" thing they got wrong all those years ago? Or was that a myth

[51mon]

Just a long shot here, isn't it the case that all Porsche wheels have the 63mm negative offset that we want? Yes they do have 5 studs but if we went along with Brian’s plan it would only be the centre section that would need to be manufactured as the Porsche rims could be used.

51mon

[Monty]

ours are 60mm positive offset