Lotus Elan Central

by **Elanlover** » Fri 27.04.2007, 19:41

Thanks to Brian's Googling skills (or however he dug this up - http://www.lotuselancentral.com/forum/v ... php?t=9027), I will soon be in possession of a TAG. A Turbo Air Guide designed specifically for my Elan. I say "my Elan" only because he's making it to fit inside the custom intake piping I'm using.

I plan on installing it once it arives (next weekend most likely) and taking it for a spin. The cost for this rough prototype is $50 USD plus shipping. Probably a bit more if it enters production as he's giving this to me to experiment with and report back. I also plan on seeing if it will fit inside the stock airbox and acordian hose so those with a stock intake setup could potentially use it. I'll report back on the results (which will be all eyeballing as I don't have access to sophisticated test equipment) once I plugged it in and run a few miles.

More about the TAG here - http://www.dieselpowerproducts.net/tag

by **Doug** » Fri 27.04.2007, 20:16

well if bits of it ever break loose and go thru the turbo you will get to do a full rebuild project :shock:

I am no aerospace engineer (but I could ask my dad) but to me I can't see how that is going to make any perceptable difference (I'll read the website's schpeal soon). Even if the airflow is straightened, what happens to it when it hits the turbo and after = turbulence! Why not put a TAG on the throttle body intake too?

by **Elanlover** » Fri 27.04.2007, 20:39

I think the concept is to simply straighten out the air at the turbo end as to impact the spool up time, reduce lag, etc. as oer their claims on the website. Being metal I'd hope we wouldn't see any pieces flying off. They've had them installed since 2003 with no problems.........that they posted on their site at least.

Hey, for 50 bucks I figure its a cheap experiment. Unless I end up needing a new turbo of course....... :evil:

(starts searching for "I screwed up my turbo" avatars)

by **GeoffSmith** » Fri 27.04.2007, 20:45

Dave Speck did warn you!

by **F1 LOTUS** » Fri 27.04.2007, 20:58

I guess they're implying the honeycomb controls the compressor blades angle of attack relative to the incoming air? Without this the air gets dragged around the intake creating a tangential vortex flow ( :roll:

) rather than the 'ideal' axial intake flow? Somehow I'd like to think the folks in turbo design world (Russ?) have taken this into account IF there is significant effect?

Stranger things have happened though...and something similar to this lead Mr Whittle (Sir) to providing us all with the possibility of cheap, reliable intercontinental travel

Read his story, it's fascinating!

http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Frank-Whittle-Invention-Engine/dp/185310860X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-2511401-9622530?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177703804&sr=8-1

by **F1 LOTUS** » Fri 27.04.2007, 21:25

If the honeycomb foil is thick enough and the length of the cells is stiff enough to prevent deflection you should be safe enough - just keep an eye on it :wink:

by **Sy V** » Sat 28.04.2007, 05:39

Surely this goes against the theory:

http://www.spiralmax.com/

by **F1 LOTUS** » Sat 28.04.2007, 07:32

Sy V wrote:Surely this goes against the theory:

http://www.spiralmax.com/

I don't think they're claiming anything for turbocharged cars? Personally I'm skeptical about either device providing any benefits [except for the guy selling them

]. I guess we'll know about the TAG device pretty soon though?...

by **Specky** » Sat 28.04.2007, 08:15

Sy V wrote:Surely this goes against the theory:

http://www.spiralmax.com/

IMHO both systems would/could work...

I understand one is before the turbo for our engines.

Smooth air into the turbo....That's why our OEM Air box/Filter are POO...

and the normal engine....Just before the combustion chambers mix it like burgery. Oh and put a venturi in there, no one will spot it...

There are loads of questions and points I could ask...

But If they're that good... why aren't they fitted to motor engines on mass...(No Pun intended)...

TTFN

by **Elanlover** » Sat 28.04.2007, 16:56

Tough crowd...........

I'll run Elanscan before and after and we'll see if there's any diffrence at all. I've no clue if its of any benefit. I figured I could afford a $50 experiment. We'll know in a wek or so I suppose. :smt102

by **Dovey** » Sat 28.04.2007, 17:01

I'm no expert but I have made impellers, so let me say this...

What a load of rip off tosh :shock:

If your missus put a honeycomb thing in the nozzle of your hoover, would you expect it to suddenly increase the air intake? Or would you expect that, as the air is being sucked in, something in the air intake would just act as a buffer and slow the air down?

by **Specky** » Sat 28.04.2007, 18:08

Elanlover wrote:Tough crowd...........

I'll run Elanscan before and after and we'll see if there's any diffrence at all. I've no clue if its of any benefit. I figured I could afford a $50 experiment. We'll know in a week or so I suppose.

Cool...

I like experiments.... When they go wrong..

I look forward to the results....what ever they may be :wink:

Could you let us know if you have a K&N style filter or standard set up...

TTFN

by **Elanlover** » Sat 28.04.2007, 18:19

Dave, the intake is from these guys:

http://www.racetep.com/lotus.html

Its an open element K&N filter on a smooth intake pipe.

by **Specky** » Sat 28.04.2007, 19:26

Work head on...Gas turbine mode...

The facts:-

You've already got a smooth convergent intake.. So you'll have an increase in pressure and temp. (Not much granted)

Hi flow filter... no swirl effect to speak of...

No massive direction change in the intake system

So IMHO..... it’s either more air, denser air or cooler air is the way forward..

I think you will get a slight improvement... but next to buggerall...

On an OEM system... it would be more noticeable...

I'm all excited... What will the results be...

Have my years in classrooms studying Aerodynamics and Gas Turbs been a waste of time or didn't I listen to what was been said.. :roll:

Now what was that bit about Inlet guide vanes.

TTFN

by **chris.t** » Sat 28.04.2007, 21:34

dave do you know why the h/c fails in the centre? is this point of max neg pressure? do you know the air flow and velocity at that point - just out of interest?

by **Specky** » Sat 28.04.2007, 22:02

Sort off...

Axial compressors are at there most effective in the centre section...

The inboard section of the blade that does the most productive work..

When a turbo is doing its stuff I honestly don't know what effects happen ahead of the axial compressor... well apart from surge or stall...

I know our honeycomb fails from the inboard face.... centre section...

TTFN

by **F1 LOTUS** » Sun 29.04.2007, 03:53

I would guess the the center failure mode is because this is where most deflection is taking place if the thing is acting like a diaphragm? Some cylinder head airflow benches actually use a honeycomb panel as an air straightening device, although these won't see any flow reversal or pulsing like what our engines does

For 50 bucks...it's worth a shot...if it works...I have a workshop full of honeycomb, even have some titanium and some carbon (ker'kin-ching$$$)honeycomb

by **Elanlover** » Sun 29.04.2007, 23:24

F1 LOTUS wrote:For 50 bucks...it's worth a shot...if it works...

Exactly. I figured what the heck. Worth $50 just to see if it does anything. Think of it like taking on the weight guesser at the local fair. :-D

by **Elanlover** » Tue 08.05.2007, 13:48

The TAG is here. I'll post pics later. Its a crude mockup. A production version "should" look better (I hope :roll:

)

Alan's been kind enough to offer to review the ElanScan records I'll be taking once I get it installed. If I can get my new exhaust done this week I'll try to plug it in and do some runs this weekend so we can have a look at the impact.

by **F1 LOTUS** » Wed 09.05.2007, 01:17

Elanlover wrote: so we can have a look at the impact.

I sincerely hope not! :lol:

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