Question on solid brake pipes

[muley]

LEC massive,

Its a long story (as it always is on the Elan!) but I now need to create some brake lines. One of the snotters needs a new brake pipe, too.

It seems we can use copper for these and a tool to create flares seems very cheap. see;

http://www.toolspot.co.uk/product/toolz ... g-tool-kit

as an example.

Does anyone have any experience of these (used in conjunction with copper pipe)?

Thanks

Jim

[GeoffSmith]

Does anyone have any experience of these (used in conjunction with copper pipe)?

Yes! And he posted 2½hrs after you!

[dapinky]

Jim,

I own a similar (but far more antique) set which i use on a regular basis. They are quite easy to use and give good results if you follow a few basic rules.

Always make sure the pipe is cut square (preferably using a pipe cutter, not a hacksaw).

Remember that a single flare uses 3mm of pipe, and a double flare uses 5mm - allow for this when cutting to length!

Make sure the clamp is tight enough to grip the pipe properly or you'll end up with a cr@p flare - and scrap pipe.

make a few practice flares before forming the pipes.

AND

MOST IMPORTANTLY

(WE ALL FORGET THIS ONE OCCASSIONALLY)

REMEMBER TO PUT THE SREW FITTINGS ON THE PIPE, THE RIGHT WAY ROUND, BEFORE MAKING THE FINAL FLARE

[muley]

Dave, Geoff,

Thanks very much for the feedback and tips. I'll order one and get stuck in - looks like fun

Cheers

Jim

[dapinky]

Jim,

Slow down a minute....

.....make sure that any set you do order will make both single and double flares - some only contain the dies for one kind or the other, and most (all?) cars use both sorts at various points along the system.

[muley]

Dave,

Roger that.

Cheers

Jim

[algirdas]

Dear Jim:

What Dave said is good advice.

But now. . . The Borstal Academy Way:

Step one: Go out and get REALLY good flaring tools. You are lucky being in the UK, because there is a company there called "Imperial", or something like that, that makes the Cadillac (Rolls Royce for you guys over there) of flaring tools. Be sure to get the really stout tools which can then be clamped securely in a vise.

Or, you could get one of these bad boys:

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?item ... pe=PRODUCT

Step two: Go out and get REALLY good tubing bending tools and be sure to get one of these: http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?item ... pe=PRODUCT

If you try to fit solid pipes without a set of these pliers, you may wind up hating life. That comment needs to be tempered by the fact that you will probably be working with copper or copper alloy. We can't use those here and wind up using either steel or stainless.

Also, I would stay away from those coil spring type benders.

Step three: Make sure you have access to a grinder with a fine grit grinding stone. You will probably be making 45 degree inverted flares and you will have to put a nice 45 degree chamfer around the outside tip of the tube.

Step four: Buy a boatload of 3/16ths tubing and practice, practice practice. Just when you think you are getting the hang of it, practice, practice and practice some more.

Step five: Figure out the lengths you need and go down to the local parts store and buy pre-finished lengths that are longer but have the right fittings that you need. For example, say you need a 10 inch length with male ends at both ends. Go get a pre-finished length that is 24 inches long. Start at one end and cut off the amount you need for your 10 inch section. Note-half of your flaring is done already since you started with a pre-finished piece, plus you will have eliminated half of your opportunities to screw-up. You also now have a half finished piece for the next 10 to 12 inch section that you will be needing. If you get a 12 inch piece for that first 10 inch section, all you will be left with is a small stub with a perfectly flaired end but is otherwise useless for anything but practice, practice and more practice.

Step six: Put a magnifying glass in the garage. Once you are done with the flare, you need to make sure that the sealing surface is clean and true. If you start off with a bad chamfer, you will probably get a bad flare. You will put it all together and it will leak. Your natural inclination will be to tighten the fitting even more which, if the flare is bad, will distort it even more and it will leak even more.

You will take it out of the car, carefully cut off the offending flare and put a really good flare on it. But it will be just too short to fit, or it won't go in right and you will not be able to get the threads to start easily and then you will force it in and you will cross thread the fitting and now be faced with replacing two pipes instead of only one.

Then you will get mad, start kicking small animals and making children in the neighborhood cry. Suddenly your girlfriend will start spending more time doing things with her "sisters". And the downward spiral will continue until the end of western civilzation as we know it.

I speak from experience.

I only know of one way to get a perfect inverted flare (or any other flare for that matter) and that is to either forget to put on the fittings you need or put them on backwards. Those will be the only perfect flares you will ever make.

If all else fails, contact these guys after you get released from your involuntary commitment in the psychiatric hospital and see if they have a kit for our cars:

http://www.automec.co.uk/frame_set.html

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[dapinky]

[muley]

Algirdas,

Thanks for the extra advice.

I've got to tread carefully here, because I've a very local garage who will make up pipes for me at around £10 each. Short term I only need 3 - long term possibly another 6 or so. Therefore, it doesn't make a lot of sense for an impecunious pensioner to invest large sums into brake pipe creation tools... Additionally, I can see advantages in being able to create pipes 'in situ' which the smaller tools will allow.

If I go ahead I will definitely practise, as I said before it looks like fun - not as much fun as the angle grinder tool though (sad, isn't it)

Cheers

Jim

[algirdas]

Dear Jim:

This may not apply to you since you are working with copper, but the cw here is to cut the tubing either with a good tubing cutter (as in a tubing cutter with a nice sharp wheel) or a fiber wheel in a miter box. DO NOT use a hack saw.

I've used the fiber wheel and a tubing cuttter. If you are going to play in this area, I cannot emphasize to you enough how critical are quality tools.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[mikeydude]

I've got to ask...how come you guys can't use copper pipes? in the States

[muley]

Ta da!

See below. I had to remake the connection between the balance valve and the first rear s/s hose - which was effectively shorter than the original ...

Cheers

Jim

[John_W]

[GeoffSmith]

Nice job Jim. How much practice though?
I reckon it's just as well we can use copper over here, I wouldn't want like to try it in steel.

BTW Have you had Benky over to do some detailing on your avatar?

[muley]

Nice job Jim. How much practice though?
I reckon it's just as well we can use copper over here, I wouldn't want like to try it in steel.

BTW Have you had Benky over to do some detailing on your avatar?

Thanks for the nice feedback. Took about 4 practises - would have been less if instructions had come with the tool (for the double flare you have to use the adaptor ONLY) ... I did buy a bender for the more convoluted shape on the other side - and the snotter - only a tenner at Goodwood FOS.

NO way could I have done it in steel ...

Re avatar; No, it wasn't Benky - it was just me fooling around with Picasa.

Cheers

Jim

[Monty]

Had to do the Brake lines from the rear compensators down to the chassis to the next straight joints near the front. I 1st bought one of those cheaper flaring kits for £9, what a pile of sh*te as the flares were all wonky Had to buy another kit so after some research went for Powerhand, Serenco which can be found on ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130890355253? ... _660wt_932 for just under £35 but what a great tool as it worked 1st time.

Here`s a video on how to use
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncMRlomyqTs



I used the double flare for all joints

Bought Brake pipe kit for £10.50 so only had to order the straight joints
Copper pipe OUTSIDE DIAMETER 3/16ins - 4.76mm
Male and female joints M10 X 1mm



2 way female joiners M10 X 1mm