Autocar 28 November 2007

[Enright]

Page 130 - article by Richard Bremner in his regular feature titled "All the cars I've never bought"

Headline: "Lotus Elan
Front drive didn't help its image, but this roadster does have talent."

A couple of other interesting quotes:
"Reasons to want one: It's still quite quick, it's comfortable, it's getting cheap and it has pedigree."
"Why you'll run a mile: It still looks slightly odd, and you'll be blown off by diesel hatchbacks". Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder - personally I think Elises look a bit dumpy, and I wouldn't expect him to have heard of ESM!

Total inaccuracies - only 1 as far as I could see: "...the fact that the body had been inaccurately tooled, creating an Elan that was wider than it should have been..." Wrong. It was actually 4 inches shorter than it should have been after engineers accidentally took 2 inches out of the wheelbase instead of adding 2 inches in. They even tried to cover their tracks by re-calibrating the CAD system so that the execs wouldn't notice!

Shame the cat is now out of the bag in that Autocar quoted being able to "pick up an early 100,000-mile Elan for under £3500". Now everyone will want one for that price. Doh.

There was quite a good picture of (I think) Steve Cropley in a S2 reg no L822SVF. Wonder if Gazza has this on his database?

[GeoffSmith]

There was quite a good picture of (I think) Steve Cropley in a S2 reg no L822SVF. Wonder if Gazza has this on his database?

Number 38 - Medina green with magnolia upholstery?

[Enright]

I hate to say this Geoff, but even though it's a good quality photograph, from the angle/lighting it was impossible to tell whether it was Pacific Blue, Aqua or Medusa Grunge. The only trim colour that was obvious was the magnolia interior.

Oh gawd too late. It's yet another opening for the Off Topic Massiv. Is NO thread sacred?!?

[Gary]

At least it was the best colour anyhow !

[M100 TWO]

It is true the car is larger than it should have been, the tooling was oversized they allowed for shrinkage the only problem was with the new manufacturing technique there was no shrinkage so all the panels became oversize it was to costly to re- manufacture the moulds the car should have been smaller
john

[Doug]

that's fine and I believe the legends too, but it has always seemed strange to me -- how does something shrink in a mold??!!?? I guess you press it and then remove it and then it shrinks as it dries . . .

[M100 TWO]

Doug 0.25 per cent is the over-size that was built in but Lotus new low-profile resin system had no shrinkage it was developed pacifically for the Elan, page 83 of the bible
john

[Doug]

Doug 0.25 per cent is the over-size that was built in but Lotus new low-profile resin system had no shrinkage it was developed pacifically for the Elan, page 83 of the bible
john

I know I've studied the bible but I'm just wondering how and when all this "shrinkage" really is supposed to occur -- I assume it is after the panel is released from the mold -- this type of detail was never explained is all . . .

[nitroman]

Warpage is more of a problem with large plastic body panels than shrinkage. Both occur during cooling after being released from the mold. Without getting into cycle-times, regrind, runner-weight, and all sorts of other industry terms I'll simply mention that I worked 16 years for a company who marketed the Plastics Management System (PMS!).

Mack Truck made the single largest plastic part at that time, and their NORMAL reject rate due to warpage routinely reached 20%. However they simply reground the rejected part & fed it back into the hopper!

[Specky]

used to do similar stuff... not much shrinkage...

our main problem was how hydroscopic components were...

Not very good when C of G and weight and moment are critical...

I just wonder how much of our cars are water..

TTFN

[GeoffSmith]

I just wonder how much of our cars are water..

Depends on the A post seal!

[F1 LOTUS]

Doug 0.25 per cent is the over-size that was built in but Lotus new low-profile resin system had no shrinkage it was developed pacifically for the Elan, page 83 of the bible
john

I know I've studied the bible but I'm just wondering how and when all this "shrinkage" really is supposed to occur -- I assume it is after the panel is released from the mold -- this type of detail was never explained is all . . .

With a thermoset resin system the the parts dimensions are 'set' at or around the gel temperature (say 250F) and from then on the part will expand and contract according to the materials coefficient of thermal expansion - for instance; a glass fiber part will contract upon cooling, the exact amount being a product of fiber and resin properties. apparently the M100 parts used a lower CTE system than the mold tools were made from, therefore the parts did not shrink as much upon cooling as they would have done if they'd used the 'old' resin system. Ideally one tries to match the CTE for the mold tool and the component to minimize stress and distortion.
In contrast to most materials, carbon fiber composites 'set' at the gel temperature, and because the carbon fiber composite can have zero CTE (it's size doesn't change with temperature) it doesn't shrink at all upon cooling, hence the desire to use carbon fiber mold tools ($$$$$) when making carbon parts. If you use aluminum tools for carbon parts, they need to be under-sized at room temperature such that they are the 'correct' size at the gel temperature for the carbon composite.
It's a bit more complex than that, but that's the gist of it

[surfboardfiller]

It's all to do with the resin, old resins shrank as they cured and depending on the shape, twisted as they shrank. The old resins shrank so much that when they were taken out of the mould they would 'pop' out when cured and would not go back in again Resin moulds are made with a 'Tooling resin' a lot stronger and resistant to shrinkage, they also hold their shape better so they can be stored. But tooling resin is very expensive.

Most modern composites are made with Epoxy resin, which has virtually no shrinkage and is stronger, so less resin can be used to make light weight CF parts. But Epoxy is no good in the sunlight as it breaks down with UV, so it should be painted - Hiding that expensive looking CF and adding weight

I suspect the story is exaggerated as it's implications would have a far greater effect on fitting the car together than a writer could ignore. How does the bodywork fit if it's so far out and the metal chassis would not fit the tub at all!

[rip]

you'll be blown off by diesel hatchbacks".

Rubbish.

A Golf VR6 tried to race me a few weeks back. Mine is stock and there was very little between us. I was disappiinted when the Golf did not follow me around a roundabout!
I doubt that there is a diesel which comes close to a VR6 either.

[paza1]

IMHO the diesels are getting mighty close on straight line performance e.g.

Facts At A Glance
CAR: SEAT Ibiza Cupra TDI
PRICES: £15,370 on the road
INSURANCE GROUP: 16
CO2 EMISSIONS: 146g/km
PERFORMANCE: 0-60mph 7.6s/ Max Speed 136mph
FUEL CONSUMPTION: (combined) 53mpg
STANDARD SAFETY FEATURES: Twin front and side airbags, ABS, TCS, ESP seatbelt pre-tensioners
WILL IT FIT IN YOUR GARAGE?: Length/Width/Height, 3953/1698/1441mm

Now handling, style and enjoyment are a totally different matter

Cheers
Mark

[surfboardfiller]

IMHO the diesels are getting mighty close on straight line performance e.g.

Facts At A Glance
CAR: SEAT Ibiza Cupra TDI
PRICES: £15,370 on the road
INSURANCE GROUP: 16
CO2 EMISSIONS: 146g/km
PERFORMANCE: 0-60mph 7.6s/ Max Speed 136mph
FUEL CONSUMPTION: (combined) 53mpg
STANDARD SAFETY FEATURES: Twin front and side airbags, ABS, TCS, ESP seatbelt pre-tensioners
WILL IT FIT IN YOUR GARAGE?: Length/Width/Height, 3953/1698/1441mm

Now handling, style and enjoyment are a totally different matter

Cheers
Mark

??? How is handling a different matter to performance, if you aren't going fast round corners you aren't going fast! 0-60mph 7.6s; miles away mate!

[paza1]

'Due to arrive at the end of the year, the Skoda Octavia vRS hatch has a 0-62mph of just 7.3 seconds and maximum speed of 149mph. Torque from the 2.0 TFSI 200bhp turbo direct injection engine is an impressive 280Nm at 1800 to 5000 rpm.'

Pretty impressive top speed....but I'll stick with the Elan

Mark

[surfboardfiller]

'Due to arrive at the end of the year, the Skoda Octavia vRS hatch has a 0-62mph of just 7.3 seconds and maximum speed of 149mph. Torque from the 2.0 TFSI 200bhp turbo direct injection engine is an impressive 280Nm at 1800 to 5000 rpm.'

Pretty impressive top speed....but I'll stick with the Elan

Mark

Good boy! spend the money you have saved on M100 performance upgrades and you'd have a rocket ship!

[paza1]

That's the plan

[rip]

IMHO the diesels are getting mighty close on straight line performance e.g.

Facts At A Glance
CAR: SEAT Ibiza Cupra TDI
PRICES: £15,370 on the road
INSURANCE GROUP: 16
CO2 EMISSIONS: 146g/km
PERFORMANCE: 0-60mph 7.6s/ Max Speed 136mph
FUEL CONSUMPTION: (combined) 53mpg
STANDARD SAFETY FEATURES: Twin front and side airbags, ABS, TCS, ESP seatbelt pre-tensioners
WILL IT FIT IN YOUR GARAGE?: Length/Width/Height, 3953/1698/1441mm

Now handling, style and enjoyment are a totally different matter

Cheers
Mark

??? How is handling a different matter to performance, if you aren't going fast round corners you aren't going fast! 0-60mph 7.6s; miles away mate!