Engine Oil Summary.

[Elanlover]

I can't claim to be an expert in oil formulations and additives but I did work for Shell in my first job out of school. Like most oil companies, they had different levels of lubricants, some of which were "better" than others.

Now, "better" doesn't really refer to the raw oil itself if I recall. Everyone hydrocracks and refines their oil pretty much the same way. Many oil companies don't even do their own refining. They just buy it from someone who does making the refined oil even more ubiquitous. The difference comes in the additives. So, a more expensive oil might be "better" because it can last longer but that's not even half the story. That's just the spiel the oil company gives to justify a higher price stating that because you don't have to change it as often its costs the same in the end as a cheaper oil.

Oil shouldn't be judged alone by how long it lasts before deteriorating. I never look at that myself because I could care less about the cost of an oil change. I'd happily spend double on oil once a year to get a better product. What I look for is the oil's ability to protect the engine. That's paramount for me. And a more expensive oil "should" have better/more additives to do just that. So, a cheaper oil tends to not be as good as a more expensive one out of the bottle as far as protecting the engine goes. However, one could say its as good if the main thing they were interested in was only getting 5000 kms out of it before a change.

[RayD]

Sent an email to Castrol and Mobil tech dept’s explaining how we now have a representative from Amsoil contributing to our oil debate and inviting them to join in.

Had this reply from Castrol…

Had a quick look (there’s a lot to go through )

Some interesting comments - seems that everyone uses different oil and each are happy so in theory you can use what you like!! Couple of quick comments - some good stuff. Lots of oils will work - but the question is, which one works the best? At the end of the day, everyone will have their favourite, and everyone will have an opinion - like asking which is best Coke or Pepsi (Pepsi if you're asking) - but as long as everyone feels they are using what's best for them - great.

Regarding the "don't use a xW-60, but an xW- 50 is ok" - the difference between a 50 and a 60 at 100 degrees is 2.5 centistokes ( i.e. not much ) whereas an xW-40W is around 13 centistokes so quite a bit thinner !

The Formula RS has been replaced by the EDGE Sport 10W-60 (2 years last November! ) which is Castrol's ultimate high performance oil for high powered and tuned engines - We also produce EDGE 10W-60 which is a retail version of TWS Motorsport , a specific BMW formulation for their "M" series engines ( the only oil BMW recommend for the M series for ultimate performance and protection )

Looking at my specifications lists Lotus are now recommending as an initial viscosity, a 10W-60 for
Élan Se and S2 (89 – 95), Esprit (81 - 98) and the Excel. 10W-40 for the earlier Elise (96 - 01) and a 10W-50 for later models (01 - 04) with a note “MINIMUM high temperature viscosity of 50 to 60”
Latest models seem to favour an ACEA A3 5W-40

The early Elan (89 - 95) - note says - for temperate climates - 10W-30 to 5W-50

Castrol offer a 10W-60 because of our extensive knowledge and experience with high performance engines (take the BMW F1 team cars we lubricate as an example) and we feel that this product offers the best high performance option, based on protection rather than just efficiency.

We also recommend this oil for TVR, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati etc - haven't had any issues at all with its use that I am aware of - and as a final note ( for now )

I took this picture at the BTCC round at Thruxton - the winning Honda Integra (normally 10W-40)

[The picture shows them using Edge Sport 10W/60]

Castrol

Ray.

[Monty]

Looking at my specifications lists Lotus are now recommending as an initial viscosity, a 10W-60 for
Élan Se and S2 (89 – 95), Esprit (81 - 98) and the Excel. 10W-40 for the earlier Elise (96 - 01) and a 10W-50 for later models (01 - 04) with a note “MINIMUM high temperature viscosity of 50 to 60”
Latest models seem to favour an ACEA A3 5W-40

The early Elan (89 - 95) - note says - for temperate climates - 10W-30 to 5W-50

IIRC Lotus recomend Mobile 0w/40

Good to see the manufacture taking time to post there views

[L.G.]

IIRC Lotus recomend Mobile 0w/40

Yep

[RayD]

Yep

That was 12 years ago - I imagine things will have moved on a bit...

Ray

[amsoil]

Things have moved on, although for many old habits remain. If a 60 grade is mentioned outside of pre war Harley Davidson or drag racing circles then the chances are that the grade is being used as a prop as opposed to specifying a quality level. If you use Amsoil Castrol Edge or Motul at about 40 grade then you wont go far wrong. 60 is barking mad; It will slow flow and may cavitate in the pump, will cause extra heat to build up, cause high pumping losses and reduce power at the wheels and MPG. But what do I know.

[Elanlover]

There's no question our engines run hot but not "hot" in the sense of the term used to describe engines requiring a 60 weight oil. While "things have moved on" technology wise, that doesn't mean a tech spec for 40 weight oil when the car was made was wrong then - nor should it be now. In that era, a 10w30 oil was considered standard for most engines. A 40 weight oil was recommended for smaller, hotter engines. Our engine didn't suddenly transform itself in a way that now requires 50 or 60 weight oils just because they are more commonly available today than when the car as built.

A good 10w40 oil will still peform nicely (or 5w40 in colder climates). A 50 or 60 weight oil isn't "better" in any way at all - just thicker at higher temps. Thicker than we likely need.

[RayD]

But what do I know.

We’re relying on you knowing a lot - you sharing your knowledge is much appreciated.

A good 10w40 oil will still peform nicely (or 5w40 in colder climates). A 50 or 60 weight oil isn't "better" in any way at all - just thicker at higher temps. Thicker than we likely need.

I agree, this thread starts with the idea of using 10W/40. With a lot of the Élans having in excess of 100,000 miles on the clock I can also see how 5W/50 would be useful.

Ray

[DeeAitch]

But what do I know.

We’re relying on you knowing a lot - you sharing your knowledge is much appreciated.

Ray

Your down to earth approach is refreshing

So where can I buy some 5 (or 10?) / 50 Amsoil?

[GeoffSmith]

So where can I buy some 5 (or 10?) / 50 Amsoil?

10% off?

[amsoil]

You can't! The numbers are too far apart to make a strong and robust oil and 50 is too thick to justify stretching the numbers with VI's to make a product for a special application. I wouldn't even recommend an Amsoil 0w-40 as its too weak for cars really (but haven't I already said that before?). If you want a 50 then its 20w-50 and if its 40 then 10w-40 or the new technology 5w-40. Even these numbers at a 30 gap are pushing things. Yes I know there are 5w-50 oils out there but they are weak and will break down and if only 10% breaks down it may take you out of the 50 index (have to get a calculator out for that one)
Want Amsoil? search the forum and it will show you where , how, and give you a discount code.
I'd personally love to see someone have the bottle to use TSO 0w-30, stronger than a 40 and wont be broken.....

[ailwyn]

I'd personally love to see someone have the bottle to use TSO 0w-30, stronger than a 40 and wont be broken.....

I'm assuming that http://performanceoilsltd.co.uk/0w-30(2000).html is the oil your talking about?

With what guarantee will Amsoil back up a 17.5k change interval? If this is a truly workable service interval then it would be well worth the premium cost.

Also, which "Ea Full-Flow Oil Filter" should be used for the Elan to achieve the 17.5k service interval?

[L.G.]

That was 12 years ago

I know, that's why I didn't erase the date on the bulletin. I am not saying you should use it, I just wanted to add the written proof.

Can I ask something? Castrol, Mobil and Amsoil are the most discussed brands here; I use Shell now any comments on that one?

L.G.

[RayD]

I use Shell now any comments on that one?

L.G.

I understand they are one of the three companies who produce oil additives, and I'll send them an email to see if they want to contribute.

Ray

[Specky]

I use Shell now any comments on that one?

L.G.

I understand they are one of the three companies who produce oil additives, and I'll send them an email to see if they want to contribute.

Ray

Don't forget Shell have their Aeroshell division...

A true performance oil.. even Amsoil won't contest that..

But that would be something for Amsoil to boast about, but they don't..

Why is that...(rhetorical)

TTFN

[rip]

With what guarantee will Amsoil back up a 17.5k change interval? If this is a truly workable service interval then it would be well worth the premium cost.

It is personal preference, but I would not want to do that many miles in my Elan on one fill of oil. for two reasons: Firstly, I aim to do no more than 5000 miles a year, so 17.5k interval would mean changing oil every 3½ years. All very well if it is in a sealed container, but to leave it sitting in a cold sump for 3 winters My second reason is that I have an SE. When boosting, remember that the fuel/air ratio is very rich, so contaminates the oil with carbon quite quickly (which is why our engines turn the oil blacker quicker thean NAs). I would rather change it in order to keep it cleaner.

If I drove my other car 35k a year and it was an NA, then I would consider 17.5k on one fill of oil.

Jack.

[ailwyn]

Rip,

The blurb claims a 35k service for N/A, non-punished cars, 17.5k for turbo'd or cars that are worked hard (both with a 12 month limit).

On the recommended 6k oil change I can do that 3 times a year (if I can keep the car on the road that long) so if I can trade in £40 x 3 for oil changes to one £60 change per year, that would be worth it.

However my question is more to do with the claimed extended service and what guarantees are offered by Amsoil if I run it for the 17.5k and it causes engine problems.

Ailwyn

[Specky]

I'm still playing Devils advocate...

Two phrases that would have an environmentalist up in arms...Man made and fully synthetic... Now how you going to dispose of that..

Do Amsoil take it back for disposal…

Moving on...

If I were a Manufacturer of any mechanical component I would want to increase the mean times between failures...

Amsoil claim to do this...so why aren't the manufactures all over them like a rash...

You could see the headlines...

"With our engine and your oil"...

"Smiles better service"

"Shell make hostile take over bid of Amsoil" (The Google search engine will love that)

Like you say Aliwyn, they won't guarantee your engine..

There are too many variables.. Yours is nearly 15 years old... and you've created most of the wear by using the wrong oil anyway..

Also we don't know the mean time of failures of our engine... (Isuzu will).

Mine is nearly 20 years old... Now that's not bad in the greater scheme of things...


Well there's a new supermarket opening soon, I've seen the sign it must be true..

I wonder if you used the full Amsoil range how much you would spend on consumables

Must go and start a new thread.. "What coolant are you using.."



TTFN

[rip]

The blurb claims a 35k service for N/A, non-punished cars, 17.5k for turbo'd or cars that are worked hard (both with a 12 month limit).

Gulp.

That is huge. A very bold claim.

[Oliver]

I use Elf LDX 5w-40 SL full synthetic (Renault dealers). The HVL`s seem quieter than they used to with Mobil 1 0w-40. Dosen`t appear to burn any either (87k miles).

Oliver