Two New Tyres - front or rear

[Foo]

Oh man I'm glad I did this - the car feels completely fresh!

[G UK]

One point people fail to see is that company recommendations are based on the lowest common denominator. Basically your average driver. Now being cynical your average driver hasn't got a clue.

Therefore the best tyres on the back make sense from a SAFETY aspect for these people. This is because they start to skid (understeer most likely) their natural tendency will be to lift off/brake.

As has been stated though a "good" driver (read: a driver that has some level of skill) will make quicker progress with the tyres on the front as this is where the most grip is required.

In summary the Safest place for new tyres is on the Rear, the best place for performance is on the Front.

[tweetdriver63]

I'm no expert. I'm better than an average driver on the street, I think, but I've never been on the track. I understand the principles, though I may not know all the terminology.

I recently saw a Top Gear program with an Elise on the track where they always do their laps on the show. Clarkson ran it on the track, and he just couldn't get it to go around the corners like he wanted. Too much understeer for him, and he couldn't seem to get the back end out. Normally, in the corners, the back end is out somewhat, and the front wheels are being steered toward the outside of the turn a certain amount. If taken to more extreme, I think it would be called drifting. Anyway, to illustrate the real differences in drivers, and what G UK is saying, the guy from Lotus (one of the design team for the Elise, I think) took the wheel, and he had no trouble at all. Clarkson was impressed.

Anyway, I agree with the last post. In the rear is the safest place for the best tires (tyres), for the masses, but not necessarily the best place for the best performance in the hands of somebody who knows what they're doing.

[RayD]

A strange thing is... how believing we all are because it’s Michelin.

GU K rightly points out “their natural tendency will be to lift off or brake” The fact Michelin are saying the exact opposite is a bit questionable.

Michelin are probably talking about “most” people.

Most people are good drivers.

With maths being what they are, half the worlds drivers are better than average. With the average driver being quite good, you’d need to go a good way down the other half before you reach the bad drivers.

How many people would have come up with the idea by themselves? Unless I’m reading the posts wrong, nobody has given any reasons of their own for having the best tyres on the back.

Saying losing the front end is controllable, and preferable to oversteering seems a bit odd to me. Even WRC or F1 drivers fold their arms and wait for the impact; you might as well be reading a newspaper once it starts.

Ray

[rip]

Saying losing the front end is controllable, and preferable to oversteering seems a bit odd to me.

Try it.

Give a FWD too much round a tight roundabout on a wet day and you can feel the front start to go & you can hold it there.
When the back end goes, it's as if someone was holding you in place with a rope...and suddenly lets go.

I've done both. Feeling the fronts starting to was massive fun. I never felt the rears start to go; they just went & I spun. Scared the cr@p out of me it did.

[dapinky]

I've done extensive market reasearch on this subject recently............




......I asked the blokes at work last night.

Now, I would say that they fit quite high up Rays list of 'the worlds drivers', as they are all Police drivers, some Standard, some Responce, some Pursuit and one Advanced - but none of them have any interest in cars as a hobby, and only one knows much about Physics (well, it's hardly Rocket Science ).

Not one of them thought it would make any difference in the real world,

They all agreed that, given a choice, the new tyres (whatever the quality) should go where you need traction/steering (ie on the front of a FWD car), but probably wouldn't bother in their own cars - just putting them where the worn-out ones had been.

Generally, they drive 'shopping trolleys', but one of the guys has an Audi rs4 which he sold a Supra Twin-turbo to get (I know theyre not FWD, but he likes to go a bit quick - 174mph in the Supra ) - he always swaps all 4 at a time.

Now, as far as company cars go, we use FWD, RWD and 4WD, and the tyres are always good makes (or at least, OE ones!).

They are generally fitted as 'Axle-pairs', but if we get a puncture in a newish tyre, they will probably just replace that one, until the next due service date.

THEY ALWAYS PUT THE NEW TYRES WHERE THE BALD ONES WERE!

I will try and remember to ask them when i go up to the workshops if there is any reason for this, or if it is just convenient

I remember when we had Senators, and they couldn't get the 'right' tyres (Goodyear were changing from NCT to NCT2), they ended up swapping them all over to the 'new' tyre, even when they had good tread, I'll ask them why!

Hopefully, they will give me an explanation which will fill me with perfect confidence the next time I'm driving at that last 10%, on a busy public road

[GeoffSmith]

Boy. I missed this. Must read it in detail later, but in the meantime, could someone please add a "Doesn't matter, it's a money making ploy by Michelin on behalf of the tyre fitters because most cars are front wheel drive so most tyres that wear out will be front wheels and therefore most tyre fitting bills can be elevated by a charge to move tyres from rear to front" option?

[RayD]

Try it...Give a FWD too much round a tight roundabout on a wet day and you can feel the front start to go & you can hold it there.

When the back end goes, it's as if someone was holding you in place with a rope...and suddenly lets go.

I've done both. Feeling the fronts starting to was massive fun. I never felt the rears start to go; they just went & I spun. Scared the cr@p out of me it did.

Rip, I understand what you’re saying. Under these wet conditions particularly if you have better tyres on the back than the front... the front tyres start to slide across the road, and as you say, it is possible to turn the steering more to compensate for it, eventually straightening up to exit the roundabout. This isn’t understeering, it’s a mild front wheel skid.

When the same thing happens at speed, all in an instant you would run out of steering lock, and end up in the fish shop.

Not one of them thought it would make any difference in the real world,

Thank you David

I remember when we had Senators, and they couldn't get the 'right' tyres (Goodyear were changing from NCT to NCT2), they ended up swapping them all over to the 'new' tyre, even when they had good tread, I'll ask them why!

I wonder if one were imperial and the other metric...

Boy. I missed this. Must read it in detail later...

Yes Geoff it’s worth reading, print a copy off and take it to bed.

Ray