Wilwood 16" kit caliper issues

[woody]

I have the 120-6816 calipers with the 7105/7106 rotors & 150-8850K Dynalite Smart Pads.
Will these rotors & pads be compatible with the 120-6806 calipers ?
Cheers,
Woody

[nitroman]

I have the 120-6816 calipers with the 7105/7106 rotors & 150-8850K Dynalite Smart Pads.
Will these rotors & pads be compatible with the 120-6806 calipers ?
Cheers,
Woody

You're sittin' tall in the saddle cowboy! No need to stable your horse Hos, you've already got the parts you need in your side saddle.

[woody]

Matt,
Are you saying I don't need to change to 6806 calipers ?
Cheers,
Woody

[ailwyn]

I think Matt is saying that the 6806s will be compatible with everything else.

However, the debate is still rife over whether the 6816s are a bad thing or just neutral (long pedal but no serious issue).

What is interesting is the 6811s, halfway between the two, less pedal travel without losing all the bite. I might give these a go.

[bobbrown]

I do not see how the 16's can be a good thing as the brake bias is so far out it is stupid
If you look at Hi-spec they do not even make a caliper that big and even their 6 pots do not go that big in terms of piston area and as such clamp load.

Ok the 11's are a compromise between the 16's and the 06's but look at the brake balance figures
16's 82% front 18% rear
11's 79% front 21% rear
06's 74% front 26% rear

Standard is 64% front 36% rear

All of this is untill the proportioning valves cut in at 15bar but you are going to get a lot more clamp load on the front before the valves cut in!
Note: this is per wheel
Front caliper clamp force in lbs at 217.5 psi (15bar) brake pressure
16's 4176 (1894kg)
11's 3578 (1623kg)
06's 2596 (1177kg)
Standard is 2088 (947kg)
rears are 1224 (555kg)
If you then add in the fact that the fronts are now on bigger discs it just makes matters worse
front tyre force in lbs
16's 1892 (858kg)
11's 1641 (744kg)
06's 1218 (552kg)
Standard is 734 (333kg)
rears are 424 (192kg)
The proportioning valves are way way out when you look at the 16's, the 06's are what could be considered with in the tolerance.

The 16's are putting 1.7 tonnes of force on the front wheels, the 06's 1.1 tonnes and the standard brakes 0.66 tonnes
To get to the same figure as the 16's of front tyre force on standard brakes you would need to have an input pressure of some 560psi which is 38.6bar about halfway up the proportioning valves range and the 16's have yet to get the valves to operating.
Would be interesting to know at what point the front tyres let go and lock but this depends on the tyres fitted, I suspect as an average it must be some where up the brake proportioning valves range say around the 75% mark
Bob

[Monty]

Guys, you need to listen to the advice given You need the 6806 calipers as Brain design the kit around this. The calipers are identical it`s only the piston size that is different so they use the same pads etc.

[nitroman]

Guys, you need to listen to the advice given You need the 6806 calipers as Brain designed the kit around this. The calipers are identical it's only the piston size that is different so they use the same pads etc.

A recent photo:

[Doug]

What is interesting is the 6811s, halfway between the two, less pedal travel without losing all the bite. I might give these a go.

my advice is the 6806s work great! it felt like my Elan was ready to do some "stoppies" once they were warmed up

for those of you who don't know what a stoppy is you can click here and watch at 0:19 and see for yourself

[nitroman]

[] for those of you who don't know what a stoppy is you can click here and watch at 0:19 and see for yourself

This guy is your primary financial resource, isn't he?

[a5gcd]

I have bought a pair of 120-6806 forged dynalites from Rally Design. No quibbles about the discount, £174.50 inc VAT & postage and they arrived the next day. Replacement will be carried out as soon as possible.

[tigerdog]

...I should have the group pricing information from Wilwood Monday or Tuesday next week.

Algirdas, any word on group pricing from Wilwood for those of us on this side of the pond? I'm ready to move on this but was waiting to hear if such an arrangement would be made.

[algirdas]

Dear Tigerdog:

Let me check with them Tuesday. I was beyond slammed this last week. The last time I talked with them, we were in the $110-115 range per caliper.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[bobbrown]

There are a couple of sites in the usa that show these calipers for $113.50 so not much of a discount there!

Bob

[tweetdriver63]

The best site I've found so far is Wilwoodoutlet.com with the price of $124.95, and free shipping in the US.

Now, allow me to ask a stupid question (one that, perhaps, some other ignoramouses like me might be afraid to ask). Can these calipers be used with standard size discs (say, the EBC's I just put on about a month ago), or do the discs have to be replaced? If they can be used, what would be thepros and cons of doing that?

[bobbrown]

Now, allow me to ask a stupid question (one that, perhaps, some other ignoramouses like me might be afraid to ask). Can these calipers be used with standard size discs (say, the EBC's I just put on about a month ago), or do the discs have to be replaced? If they can be used, what would be thepros and cons of doing that?

I assume you are saying can these calipers be used with the stock disc setup, simple answer is NO
This combination has a specific size disc and is a two piece design.

[nitroman]

The best site I've found so far is Wilwoodoutlet.com with the price of $124.95, and free shipping in the US.

Tweet, thanks for the link. I'll have to order soon from somewhere.

I drove the yellow car to Atlanta last week (700mi round trip). There is a certain danger to owning one 'Wilwood' car & 1 stock-braked car, most especially when you don't drive the 'stock' car much. In a pinch (night-time, unexpected interstate construction) you momentarily think you can stop, then have to switch to plan-B "steer around" with no time to check over your shoulder.

[tweetdriver63]

The best site I've found so far is Wilwoodoutlet.com with the price of $124.95, and free shipping in the US.

Tweet, thanks for the link. I'll have to order soon from somewhere.

I drove the yellow car to Atlanta last week (700mi round trip). There is a certain danger to owning one 'Wilwood' car & 1 stock-braked car, most especially when you don't drive the 'stock' car much. In a pinch (night-time, unexpected interstate construction) you momentarily think you can stop, then have to switch to plan-B "steer around" with no time to check over your shoulder.

I only own the stock-braked car (although I thought with SS lines, and the new discs and pads, it would be a little better), and I have that plan-B experience a lot. I'm gonna have to go the Wilwood route, because I'd like to have a plan-A.

Now my next stupid question. I can order the calipers and pads from wilwood. I've read the Wiki write-up, and it talks about custom brackets and custom hats. I need to know exactly what I need to buy, and what I'll need to have somebody create. Help.

BTW, as I'm joining this thread late, I thought I throw out, in regards to what happens to the pads (retraction, etc) on the stock calipers, that I know when I don't have my foot on the pedal, my pads are in fact, in contact with the discs. I know this because I have EBC slotted discs, and I can hear the clicking made by the slots as the pads pass over them. This clicking gets much louder when the brakes are applied. I should also add that I can't lock the wheels up, no matter how hard I push. I've narrowly missed a few #@$&*^@!!!'s with last minute weaving due to this. I try to keep my distance.

[algirdas]

Dear Chris:

You are going to need a set of Brian's caliper mounting brackets and rotor top hats. I hope Brian does another run of them since I need another set myself. From there you get the calipers, pads and rotors from Wilwood. Front brake lines can either come from Brian or Geoff or you can make them on your own. Caliper bracket and caliper mounting bolts can be sourced locally. Rotor top hat to rotor mounting bolts can come from ARP (what I used-unfortunately expensive) or from Wilwood. Safety wire can be sourced locally as well.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[tweetdriver63]

I realize this is probably another stupid question, but has anybody ever asked Wilwood about making a kit for us?

They have a kit for a Honda Civic, which is unbelievably similar to what we need. The Civic's OEM disc has exactly the same specs as ours, except for having a smaller overall diameter, and being 3mm more in overall height. The 4x100 lug pattern, the 61mm bore, the hub diameter, the 24mm disc thickness...all the same,, according to the info at brakewharehouse.com. The Wilwood 140-6163 kit includes the 120-6806 calipers, and 12.19" x .81" rotors, etc. Obviously, the mounting brackets probably wouldn't work. The hats might be different, because the 3mm height difference (I'm guessing), but if that 3mm wouldn't cause any problems with clearance of any of the suspension (and bobbrown said it wouldn't), then wouldn't they just need to include all the right shims, and make brackets that would fit this kit to the Elan?

I'm probably way off base, but to the barely brake literate, like myself, it seems to make sense, and seems worth investigating by somebody who speaks the language.

[Paul.P]

Tweeters, might be worth you asking Brian if he has any plans to do some more hats & brackets, & if not, find out if Wilwood would be prepared to make this kit ( bearing in mind a lot of us already have it ),but if they are, Brian might be prepared to give you tech details of them so wilwood could copy........only thinking aloud