Elan vs Miata

[Jeff]

Unfortunately, GM and Lotus miscalculated the power of ABS technology and derivative applications which would make many of the advantages of fwd irrelevant, e.g. traction control, viscous 4wd, etc.

<br><br><br>I guess it is all dependent on your perspective.  By today's standards , outside of the innovative raft suspension the Elan is a relatively simple setup; no traction contol...etc. Even the new Elise now has abs.   Did the Elan have abs? or is that some urban legend? <br>

[Houdini]

My Miata had LSD, Koni shocks, Racing Beat springs, sway bars, and end links. I also added chassis braces and a roll bar which really helped. Brakes were upgraded with Porterfield pads only. With that combo it was a better handling car than the M100 and braked better (slightly). The braking just seemed more stable, hard to put my finger on it exactly. The M100 is still the best handling front wheel drive car I've ever driven, and I wouldn't go back to Miata again, even though it's a great sports car. I agree the Miata community is fantastic as far as there forum goes. A very informed group that is dedicated to there cars.

[Ashaman]

I suppose anything is possible, but I seriously doubt this.  Even the much bragged on mazdaspeed miata with 7.5lbs of boost is lame.<br><br>Honestly, to me this topic is about as absurd as starting: "Modena vs Elan."  Totally pointless...and totally dissimilar...oh wait...the top does go up & down on all three vehicles; oh yes...of course....carry on!  ::)<br><br>The M100 was/is a unique vehicle; abstract comparisons could be made to just about anything!

[Fubar1764]

[quote author=Jeff link=board=techgen;num=1113039509;start=15#20 date=04/17/05 at 15:36:46]Did the Elan have abs? or is that some urban legend? <br>[/quote]<br><br>Jeff, you've been acting a bit senile since you became a God. Alzheimer's perchance? Are you now sporting a white beard and white robes?  8)  Stay away from that concours Fiesta, ok? <br>

[Doug]

weren't skittles invented as homage to the Miata ??  ::)

[Fubar1764]

[quote author=Doug link=board=techgen;num=1113039509;start=15#24 date=04/18/05 at 13:13:34]weren't skittles invented as homage to the Miata ??  ::)[/quote]<br><br>So MazdaSpeed is for RedHots?   <br>

[Doc Fizzix]

Found this for Sy<br><br>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4544104876&category=6324<br><br> ;D

[Doug]

[quote author=Doc_Fizzix link=board=techgen;num=1113039509;start=15#26 date=04/18/05 at 16:11:39]Found this for Sy<br><br>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4544104876&category=6324<br><br> ;D[/quote]<br> [smiley=lol2.gif]<br><br>the best part is the last picture in the collage  [smiley=lol.gif]

[Decapotable]

About a year-and-a-half ago, I was searching for a new daily driver, and one of the first cars at which I looked was an Elan. I've loved the M100 Elan ever since I saw them on the auto show circuit when I was 12. I've been a Lotus fan forever. I still have the original Elan brochure (just a page, really) autographed by Doc Bundy at an IMSA race where he was beating up on Porsches in an Esprit X180R. I'm one of three or four people on earth who actually bought some of the Tommy Hilfiger Team Lotus clothes from when he sponsored the F-1 team. All that is simply to say, I have more affection for Lotus than any other marque save my first love (Citroën) I was really pumped to discover that I could afford my favorite Lotus from my childhood, andthat there was a good-condition one in my favorite Elan color (yellow) for sale locally.<br><br>With the exception of one of the worst-feeling shifters I've ever handled (much worse than the column shift on my Citroën DS-21, even) I loved driving it with the top down. I liked coming on the boost at 3k, the sure-footed handling, everything. (Maybe the turning circle was a bit wide, but not egregiously so.) I barely had enough room in it, but barely fitting is just right for a lightweight sportscar IMO. Top up I was less comfortable. Despite my small quibbles, I left expecting nothing to top that experience. However, I wasn't going to buy any car without test-driving the competition, so I left the gentleman my number and went the next day to a Carmax lot to test drive the number three car on my paper "cars I might like" list, a BMW Z3 with the 2.8L I6. It sucked. Hard. It was one of the most disappointing cars I'd ever driven. (An Audi TT, which was #2, was not to my taste in the end but had more more to appreciate about it than the Z3 did.) Elan vs. Miata  vs. S2000 (nice car, not my taste) is a legitimate discussion about which reasonable people can disagree, but Elan vs. Z3 is a complete rout. One is a legitimate contender for "ultimate driving machine", and the other is a pretty poseur from BMW.  However, next to the Z3 on the lot was a red base-model Miata. The salesman suggested I try it, and I reluctantly did. I was pretty sure that I wasn't going to like it, and besides I wanted something with more heritage than a Mazda. My sister likes Miatae, so how great could they be? Boy was I wrong. It was, simply speaking, a revelation. The interior fit me like a glove, and top up it was less claustrophobic than the Elan. And that top! Raising it or lowering it is a 3-5 SECOND job from the driver's seat! Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. The shifter was the best-feeling I had ever used, fast and fluid with just the right amount of "snick". The clutch, throttle, and brake pedals were all weighted by people who love to drive, and were a joy to use. The power was adequate, but the engine made up for it by enjoying the rev. The steering was better than the Elan's, the brakes were better, and - though in fairness probably because the Miata had Goodyear GS-D's on it and the Elan greasy Yoko Paradas - it felt even more communicative. I would've bought that car on the spot, except that I was able to lock its brakes fairly easily whilst driving hard. (Very few US-market Miatae came equipped with ABS.) A few months later, I found the perfect Miata for me: a 2001 Special Edition (BRG paint, wooden Nardi steering wheel/shift knob, no tupperware cladding to muck up the classic lines, and unfortunately cheesy plastic woodgrain on the center stack.), equipped from the factory with ABS and the hardtop, and upgraded by its previous owner with a stainless steel mesh grille up front, an aftermarket exhaust that makes it the sonic clone of an Alfa Duetto, and Panasport (Minilite-replica) wheels. Basically, it was a Miata exactly as I would've upgraded it over time, except for the Dunlop FM901's on the above-mentioned Panasports, but already assembled.<br><br>So, they're both awesome cars, but for me the Miata was a better choice. I don't ever regret buying it instead of that Elan, even though the Elan would've been about $3500 cheaper to buy.<br><br>As an aside, I notice that most people here are comparing the M100 to the NA (1990-1997) Miata. I never looked at NA Miatae, simply because I like the NB (build year 1998-2005) bodystyle much better. The interior is also much classier than the NA's, and IMO competitive with the Elan's except that the Miata's 3-spoke airbag wheel is much nicer than the Camaro wheel in the Elan. Price-wise an M100 is closer to a decent NB than to an NA. The later NB's also have the same sized tires as the Elan SE, 205/45ZR-16. And that's actually why I came to Elan Central in the first place, to see if the hot tires here are the same as at miata.net....

[schurch]

[quote author=Fubar1764 link=board=lotus;num=1113869221;start=0#14 date=04/16/05 at 06:49:55]Cars, like women, are best when just a bit more and a bit less than expected. The perfect ones, the ones that never ask for anything in return, aren't rewarding. The best ones require work, hard work; and with more work, there's the very real possibility that she will funfill with sublime brilliance! Only on occasion will a car or a woman reward with brilliance. It's the chase of the reward that's a reward in itself. The Quest for the Grail is its own reward.<br>Ok, enough of that. Back to boogers and fart jokes. . . [/quote]<br><br>The only thing he forgot to mention is that while the Elan can be quite pricey, its a damn site cheaper than any 'hard work' oman I've ever met!

[PAUL30]

maybe you should try not paying for it!  [smiley=wink_2.gif]

[schurch]

Well, if she hangs around when your not paying for 'it' (whatever 'it' is, I was picturing dinner and whatnot, but I think Paul30 has other ideas [smiley=1poke.gif] ) then she is 1) not hard work and 2) low maintainence!<br><br>Personally I prefer the challage of a little hard work!<br>

[Fubar1764]

[smiley=goodposting.gif]<br>I too wanted an M100 since she was introduced in 1989. In the end, different strokes for different folks. The Miata's a fabulous car and quite a bit more fun than the Z3. I drove the NA and liked it just fine. However, the M100 brings a smile every time I'm in her. The first time I got dripped on from the poorly designed seals, I giggled. When I have issues with the top, I shrug off the poor design and look for ways to fix it (or mitigate the damage if that's all that can be done!).<br>The M100 isn't for someone who's afraid of niggling problems. When I want a comfortable ride with more than generous a/c capabilities, I take out the Lexus SC400 (Toyota Soarer 4.0 for those not in the Colonies). When I want to smile at a loud throaty motor and reaction to every dial, I take out the M100.<br>I enjoy the Elise, but there's a part of me that isn't so fond of her. She draws a lot more attention than the M100. We like that the M100 doesn't draw nearly the attention the Elise does. That said, the M100 draws plenty of attention from those who know, and that's the kind of attention I want anyways. <br>Decapotable's rationale's a perfectly legit; they just don't happen to be mine.  ;)

[timmo]

There was a top 10 of sports cars on TV last night. ( Porsche 911 won it) the Miata came 3rd but I couldnt help but agree with Steve McQueens son who simply pissed himself laughing when it was suggested the Miata or mx5 WAS NOT a ladies car!! 'Nuff said.

[Monty]

Missed most of that programe but seen the part with the MX5 and can`t believe the M100 wasn`t there. Wonder how they came up with the top ten to start with

[Kjeld]

When the first M100 reviews came in, I dismissed the car because of the FWD config. How could a real sportscar be FWD? Besides, the Miata reviews had also been coming, and the obvious reaction was, why didn't the Brits build this car? The answer to that one is: they should have.

The Miata is in my opinion the finest expression of retro car design to date. In addition to the aesthetic bond to Mrs. Peel, it also had a build quality that was unimaginable during the original Lotus run of Elans. And in saying that, it seems disenguiness to diminish the Miata because it is popular. On top of design and build spec, probably worth mentioning that the price tag for the car was < 1/3 of the M100.

All that said, the M100 was not a retro car. The design was fresh, performance impressive, and quite reliable all told. That said, I am sure a stock Miata can be set up to hang with any M100.

En toto, as an M100 owner, there are two elements the Miata can never touch; design and exclusivity. If these do not matter, dail 1-800-numiata.

[Doc Fizzix]

That said, I am sure a stock Miata can be set up to hang with any M100.

Not in style or look

[Ashaman]

OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, WHY does this ridiculous thread linger??

The Only people who would even compare the two cars are casual drivers who know NOTHING about automobiles and possess NO technical knowledge, or those who own/owned a miata and feel the need to defend their girly tastes.

It was cute, it was reliable, it was no doubt fun, it was cheap crap. It was slow. It IS slow. Once again, even after Mazdaspeed got their hands on it, it MIGHT (12 years later...WOW) be able to hang with a stock Elan. Pathetic. I can assure you that my Elan would destroy their pride and joy in any area.

Why are these two even being compared? In what ways are they alike aside from having 4 wheels & no roof?

Drivetrain? No. FWD vs RWD.
Horsepower? No. 165 vs 116
Distribution? No. 64/36 vs 52/48
Composition? No. Steel backbone & composites vs. Steel unibody
Top Speed? No. 137 vs 115
0-60? No. 6.5 secs vs 9 secs
Wheels/tires? No. 16" vs 14"
Style? No. (doing what lotus did ~40 years earlier isn't exactly impressive to me)

For those who want to rave about how the Lotus was so much more expensive, and how the Miata was a great "value," well....it was cheap. That of course is reflected in A - How well the design has aged (I haven't seen anyone rushing up to a Miata to ask what it was lately.); and B - Resale values (it is ~25% that of an Elan in equal condition). So when speaking of "values" it might be worth keeping that in mind

Said Performance Car:

"By no means does the Elan do everything better than the Mazda, but the things it does do better are so much better that the cars could indeed represent different Eras. The turbocharged engine is a veritable powerhouse, the chassis is a tour de force, the car in the flesh is the strongest sports car statement for years. Whatever the dimensions say, it is one of the biggest cars I have ever driven, in all sense of the word, and now, after driving it hard and long, I cannot for the life of me think what other 40K car would provide anything like the same pleasure.....

For all their common roadster appeal, there is a gulf between these cars in dynamic ability, one that the biggest price differential imaginable in the end couldn't fully compensate for. This is the extent of Lotus's achievement."...

Said Motortrend:

"...Make no mistake: Upon seeing in his mirror a Miata MX-5, the Elan driver has merely to stretch his right leg to make it disappear. Beyond their common provision of seating for two in the great outdoors, these cars bear no sensible comparison."

And THAT my friends, sums it all up right there. If you want to rave about what a great car something is "for the price," you might see if there are any econoboxes in good condition in your area, because hey, NO it isn't as good, but look how much it does for only $1000!!

Oh yeah, I hate the Elan's shifter, the stock brakes are disgraceful, and the instrumentation is not very well designed

YAY.

[Doc Fizzix]

Ashaman, I am with ya!

Hay Ashaman, don't you think that if they keep this topic the Gods should bring back the Mac vs. PC topic